Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby Takeaquaalude » Sat 05 Nov 2022, 12:55:19

Forgive my total ignorance on the topic of oil. I live in south carolina and I live in one of the two states that will run out of diesel fuel this week. Which basically means that were going to be one of the two states that will start this great famine that is suppose to hit us. Anyway, I have had this question lingering for a long while now and I hope this is the correct place to find the answer.

My question is

Why are states having to ask the federal government for the fuel. We have states with their own independent lands where they have their own state constituents. Why can't states that have oil give oil companies the permission to drill as they please and sell to the states directly? Why couldn't the states that have the oil make a deal with the states that have the oil refineries and they both benefit. The federal government is doing everything it can to insure that people will be ruined and at war with one another- come starvation and total poverty. I don't understand why it is up to the government to relegate their nonsense and bullsh*t down our throats creating the most and worst possible outcome. Sorry my opinions and discernment is in the way but I don't understand where most states laws fall in the production and purchase of oil. It just strikes me that if the states were really concerned and willing to do what it takes for the citizens therein, then why wouldn't the states communicate amongst themselves to see if they could form a cooperative that would help keep people moving, warm, fed, and producing. It is pretty clear that what's coming is going to be worse than we could ever imagine and when people are hungry they act in unspeakable ways add the other variables and there is no telling. People under the bolsheviks in Russia didn't take long to resort to cannibalism it was not uncommon. I just can't even fathom and I do not wish to. I just hope I can find useful information on this and then I can go speak with members of the state house. If you have any legal facts or any other ideas please feel free to respond. Sometimes it's the questions we didn't think to ask or sometimes it's a detail a laymen wouldn't even see or process. If anyone can provide any information please don't hesitate.
Takeaquaalude
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat 05 Nov 2022, 12:35:08

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 05 Nov 2022, 17:01:21

Takeaquaalude wrote:Why can't states that have oil give oil companies the permission to drill as they please and sell to the states directly?


Because the states don't own all the mineral rights under any lands but their own. And sometimes not even those, if they have previously leased them out. Just like with individual mineral rights owners, the companies ask for a lease, the state sells them the rights to develop, and then they do just that.

And then sell into the open market. If the states wants to buy diesel and whatnot, which they certainly do for their motor fleets, they buy it from the usual wholesalers like everyone else.

Takeaquaalude wrote: Why couldn't the states that have the oil make a deal with the states that have the oil refineries and they both benefit.


States with oil don't develop it to their own account. Oh, they COULD of course, most leases for oil and gas allow the mineral rights owner to take their volume of oil and gas directly, or the market value of it. Never seen a one take the oil and gas, they just want the cash. And I've developed oil and gas on private, state and federal lands. All are different in how they want the properties maintained and whatnot, but they all wanted the cash.

Takeaquaalude wrote:The federal government is doing everything it can to insure that people will be ruined and at war with one another- come starvation and total poverty.


Sure...that is why they have welfare and social security and medicare and so on and so forth...because their goal is genocide of the people. Gotcha.

Takeaquaalude wrote: If you have any legal facts or any other ideas please feel free to respond. Sometimes it's the questions we didn't think to ask or sometimes it's a detail a laymen wouldn't even see or process. If anyone can provide any information please don't hesitate.


Not quite sure what a legal "fact" is, as most seem to be open to interpretation, as demonstrated during the recent coup. But states don't usually participate in lease sales beyond what I've just described, with the feds doing it slightly differently, but the basics remain the same.

If you want state owned mineral rights, move to Canada ( or most other nations of the world). Every time I ever drilled a well in that country, the royalty owner was listed on the drilling permit, and it was "The Crown". And they then do put the money in the government coffers, and hand out things like free health care. if I recall correctly, they also collect a tax rate approaching 50% to pay for the largesse that oil and gas revenues don't cover. That's what they wanted for higher earning foreigners anyway. Individual ownership of mineral rights is relatively rare around the world.

As Harold Hamm once said when asked why America can do what we do with oil and gas, his answer was "Rigs, rednecks and royalties." That is a direct quote.
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 8483
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 06 Nov 2022, 00:50:36

Takeaquaalude wrote: It is pretty clear that what's coming is going to be worse than we could ever imagine and when people are hungry they act in unspeakable ways add the other variables and there is no telling. People under the bolsheviks in Russia didn't take long to resort to cannibalism it was not uncommon. I just can't even fathom and I do not wish to..


Joe Biden is really $%$%ing things up, but hopefully even he can't screw things up as bad as the Bolsheviks did in Russia a century ago.

Nonetheless, be on the lookout for the economy to take a sudden dive starting in December.

The Biden administration has been selling 1-2 million bbls of oil per day from the strategic petroleum reserve in a failed effort to keep gasoline prices low in the run up to the election. Once Biden stops taking oil out of the strategic petroleum reserve, gasoline prices will probably lurch upward.

Similarly, the Biden administration has been lying about layoffs in the employment statistics for several months now..........most likely they'll try to re-adjust the employment numbers back towards reality after the election and that will look like the economy is hitting a wall.

omething-is-rotten-in-Biden=BLS-unexplained-2.3-million-jobs-gap-emerges-faked-payrolls-report

Image
Look out!!!--- the economy is going to hit the wall soon!

Good luck to you.

Cheers!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 25844
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 06 Nov 2022, 10:47:25

Yes, I think individual ownership of resources is the key. The US does that right. If you don't provide for individual ownership, you set yourself up to fail at the Export Land Model. To prevent that, you need to use your own resources to provide for the growth of your own economy. Individual ownership provides for that. State ownership does not. State ownership leads to selling to whomever offers the highest price. In the case of Middle Eastern nations, that is every country except the one that produces the oil. Those countries don't have democracies for a reason.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3700
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 16 Nov 2022, 16:17:37

The only oil Texas owns is that produced from state lands...which is very little...and then only the royalty portion of that production. Most is owned by private landowners who lease to private companies that can sell to any refinery they choose. Who then sell products to whoever they choose.

Your free market system essentially.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11360
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby careinke » Wed 16 Nov 2022, 21:17:11

Did South Carolina run out of diesel last week?

Peace
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 16 Nov 2022, 23:17:59

careinke wrote:Did South Carolina run out of diesel last week?

Peace


BBWWAAHHAAA!

Good one.
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 8483
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 17 Nov 2022, 16:12:01

care: Not what you want to read "The US Is Exporting Record Oil and Fuel Eve n as East Coast Faces Shortages"

Also won't make you feel better: that 1 million bbls per day the President is pulling out of the SPR...it ain't for you and the rest of us: "November 3, 2022 - U.S. crude oil exports to Asia poised to hit record high".

"HOUSTON/SINGAPORE, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Deliveries of U.S. crude oil to Asia are set to touch a record 1.8 million barrels per day this month, Kpler shipping data showed, as demand climbed on a widening discount to global oil. Refiners in China, India and South Korea are returning as big U.S. crude oil buyers after several months of scooping up cheap Russian barrels. Asia's renewed buying reflects soaring demand for crude to produce diesel fuel and comes as Europe continued to stock up in the aftermath of Western sanctions on Russian purchases."

Remember: the SPR was designed {by treaty} to help the US AND OTHER COUNTRIES when crude prices get too high. Got it: some months the govn pulls 1 mm bopd and we're shipping 1.8 mm bopd to China et al. You wonder why the MSP doesn't point that out when the report draws from the SPR? Might not make the Prez look very good, would it.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11360
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 18 Nov 2022, 01:51:22

ROCKMAN wrote:care: Not what you want to read "The US Is Exporting Record Oil and Fuel Eve n as East Coast Faces Shortages"

Also won't make you feel better: that 1 million bbls per day the President is pulling out of the SPR...it ain't for you and the rest of us: "November 3, 2022 - U.S. crude oil exports to Asia poised to hit record high".

"HOUSTON/SINGAPORE, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Deliveries of U.S. crude oil to Asia are set to touch a record 1.8 million barrels per day this month, Kpler shipping data showed, as demand climbed on a widening discount to global oil. Refiners in China, India and South Korea are returning as big U.S. crude oil buyers after several months of scooping up cheap Russian barrels. Asia's renewed buying reflects soaring demand for crude to produce diesel fuel and comes as Europe continued to stock up in the aftermath of Western sanctions on Russian purchases."

Remember: the SPR was designed {by treaty} to help the US AND OTHER COUNTRIES when crude prices get too high. Got it: some months the govn pulls 1 mm bopd and we're shipping 1.8 mm bopd to China et al. You wonder why the MSP doesn't point that out when the report draws from the SPR? Might not make the Prez look very good, would it.


Sorry my comment was meant to be sarcastic. I agree with the stuff you covered.

Peace
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 20 Nov 2022, 12:50:50

cared - No problem...info many don't know like this:

Below are the 5 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of refined oil during 2021.

United States: US$84.9 billion (12.1% of refined oil exports)
Russia: $70 billion (9.9%)
India: $54 billion (7.7%)
Netherlands: $52 billion (7.4%)
Singapore: $41.4 billion (5.9%)

So many mistakenly believe the SPR withdraws are for the benefit of US consumers. So very wrong.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11360
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 20 Nov 2022, 16:12:51

ROCKMAN wrote:So many mistakenly believe the SPR withdraws are for the benefit of US consumers. So very wrong.


Actually Roc, in order to make that statement, you would need to quantify the change in market price that WOULDN'T have happened without that release. If it was, say, $2/bbl higher without it, then the benefit to American consumers would have been the price difference in their fuel between whatever it was with the release, versus what it was without it. So...the benefit to American consumers by the release of that oil, regardless of where it went, would be maybe $0.05/gal? Just a guess, but just the psychological effect of the American release could have been a solid $10/bbl relief in the market price, which would be about $18,300,000/day, give or take.

So...that would be the benefit to US consumers, give or take.

US daily finished mogas consumption
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 8483
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 15:36:57

Adam - Study the numbers again: at the same time SPR releases have been made the US has increased both oil and refinery product exports. Thus the net available hydrocarbons to the public have decreased. Granted that decrease would have been greater without those releases but bottom line: that oil was exported. IOW foreigners benefited and we suffered less. I don't consider suffering less a BENEFIT...just less SUFFERING.

But the main point is that the MSM constantly reported releases as a SIGNNIFICANT BENEFIT to the American people (IOW more motor fuel for us) and patted the President on the back for IMPROVING our economy.

Again, for folks that missed the main point: the US is THE REFINERY for the world...not US citizens. We compete with global consumers on a price basis. Those hydrocarbons DO NOT BELONG to us. They belong to the highest bidder. The price of gasoline has fallen because of the decrease in oil prices GLOBALLY. And that is because the world is slowly slipping into recession according to the big-name economists.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11360
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 16:57:05

ROCKMAN wrote:Adam - Study the numbers again: at the same time SPR releases have been made the US has increased both oil and refinery product exports.


No need to study it, I knew it. It is irrelevant to my argument, as I made a macro international market argument, not a domestic only one.

ROCKMAN wrote: Thus the net available hydrocarbons to the public have decreased.


The global market is the global market, and the US is but a player in it. So no, the hydrocarbons to AMERICANS might have shifted, but the world collected XX additional barrels above and beyond what the market had expected, with the current uncertainty in Europe and whatnot. Hence, more certainty. Hence more volumes. Hence a lower overall market price.

ROCKMAN wrote: Granted that decrease would have been greater without those releases but bottom line: that oil was exported. IOW foreigners benefited and we suffered less. I don't consider suffering less a BENEFIT...just less SUFFERING.


Lower global prices because of the SPR releases benefitted American consumers as well as others. This is just simple macro economic stuff Roc, so sure Americans "suffered" in that we have less in the SPR, but the otherwise lower oil price is itself a benefit to US and international folks. Assuming other countries didn't steal the advantage for themselves, as opposed to the free market here in the US which allows competition among the distributors to function as it should.

Rockman wrote:But the main point is that the MSM constantly reported releases as a SIGNNIFICANT BENEFIT to the American people (IOW more motor fuel for us) and patted the President on the back for IMPROVING our economy.


I quantified the potential benefit here or elsewhere. Feel free to refute the math of it. The benefit to American consumers based on US consumption is easily 10's of millions of dollars per day.

Rockman wrote:Again, for folks that missed the main point: the US is THE REFINERY for the world...not US citizens. We compete with global consumers on a price basis. Those hydrocarbons DO NOT BELONG to us. They belong to the highest bidder. The price of gasoline has fallen because of the decrease in oil prices GLOBALLY. And that is because the world is slowly slipping into recession according to the big-name economists.


And the US made more oil available, and created more certainty in the market. This is Econ 101 Rock, and you are right, the US is in a global economy, so when we lower global prices with an SPR release, US citizens get the benefit of that price decrease.
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 8483
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 17:40:57

Takeaquaalude wrote:The federal government is doing everything it can to insure that people will be ruined and at war with one another- come starvation and total poverty.

So Trump won the election in 2020, the earth is flat, evolution doesn't exist, AGW doesn't exist, and men never landed on the moon? (All just as credible as your claim).

Sounds like you've already been taking way too many drugs.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10064
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Why can't states regulate local oil resources?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 18:55:27

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Takeaquaalude wrote:The federal government is doing everything it can to insure that people will be ruined and at war with one another- come starvation and total poverty.

So Trump won the election in 2020, the earth is flat, evolution doesn't exist, AGW doesn't exist, and men never landed on the moon? (All just as credible as your claim).

Sounds like you've already been taking way too many drugs.


Way to attack the person and NOT the argument. I was hoping for more.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest


Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests