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Where is all this divisiveness headed?

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Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 16:44:59

I predict California will break off from the rest of the US and do its own thing. Maybe they can merge with Mexico and become Maxico. Maybe they can start their own central bank and print money to solve their problems. That would be interesting to see.

So where do you think this is all headed? I think certainly Trump will have another term and at that point we'll see the D's depressed, institutionalized and probably some high profile suicides. The media will make a bigger ass of itself this second time around.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 17:15:32

mmasters wrote:So where do you think this is all headed?


We've seen this all before. Each time an R gets elected president the media pitches a fit. Remember how the media demonized Reagan and then they demonized Bush and now they are demonizing Trump. Its the same thing every time an R is president. Each time the hysteria from the Ds and the MSM grows and grows. But as soon as a D gets elected president again suddenly all this froo-froo from the Ds and the MSM about how divided the country is will stop.

We'll still be just as divided, but the MSM will stop bashing the president and constantly obsessing over how divided the country is so everything will seem much better.

Cheers!
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 17:25:44

Plantagenet wrote:
mmasters wrote:So where do you think this is all headed?


We've seen this all before. Each time an R gets elected president the media pitches a fit. Remember how the media demonized Reagan and then they demonized Bush and now they are demonizing Trump. Its the same thing every time an R is president. Each time the hysteria from the Ds and the MSM grows and grows. But as soon as a D gets elected president again suddenly all this froo-froo from the Ds and the MSM about how divided the country is will stop.

We'll still be just as divided, but the MSM will stop bashing the president and constantly obsessing over how divided the country is so everything will seem much better.

Cheers!

I don't think recent history compares to this level of divisiveness, you have to go back to the 1960s and the Vietnam war to get the flavor of where we are now.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 18:41:17

mmasters wrote:I don't think recent history compares to this level of divisiveness, you have to go back to the 1960s and the Vietnam war to get the flavor of where we are now.


I don't see all that much divisiveness now anywhere except in the media. Heck, just go back 3-4 years and we had out and out race riots with days of rioting, looting and burning in places like Ferguson and Baltimore during the Obama years, but no one ran around worrying about "divisiveness" then.

Its all media hype, IMHO, to help the Ds.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 18:51:17

Faith in democracy is shaken
To restore faith will take lots of time.

But basically its economics the trickle down economics social experiment failed and the pies got smaller,the people left behind are angry
The people winning dont care.
The anger has given us Trump and Brexit and every weird political combination in Europe and the rest of the world.
You can only have this class warfare against the poor and middle class for so long before they realise that the Trumps of the world are the problem not the solution
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 18:53:40

My hit tells me that Plant is onto it.

I think this recent Kavanaugh “outing” may push people over the edge against the D’s, not that the media will portray it that way.

I’ve precious little evidence of this, one point really. A friend on Facebook base been relentless anti-Trump. But today he posted about the Ford accusations. Clearly very, very cynical of the maneuver.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 19:26:54

Newfie wrote:I think this recent Kavanaugh “outing” may push people over the edge against the D’s..... Clearly very, very cynical ..... maneuver.


Who doesn't have some horrible memory of high school making out and clumsiness gone bad that they never want to think about ever again. And the whole idea that the Ds are now going to try to hold people accountable for things they did decades earlier at a HIGH SCHOOL party is just too much.

And, just to make it totally absurd, the accuser is a flake. She never said a word to anyone in 28 years, and then in a marriage counseling session she said she was attacked by four people. She can't remember when this happened, or where it happened, or how she got to the party, or how she got home. She can't remember anything except the four attackers. Oooops...she recently changed her memory to say there were two attackers, and she remembers just one thing with crystal clarity --- that one is absolutely Bret Kavanaugh.

God what a flake.

Its so cynical it makes me want to vomit.

IF the accuser doesn't have a hickie on her neck from that night, then I'm not going to believe a word she says. Who ever heard of a high school make out session without hickies.

Image
The accuser better have a hicky or I'm not going to believe she was even at that High School Party.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 20:27:12

Is it a problem OR a symptom OR both at once?
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 19 Sep 2018, 13:47:02

I thought of another inconsistency in Prof. Ford's account of what happened to her 38 years ago.

Not only does she not have a hicky, but she didn't tell her mommy what happened.

If something traumatic actually had happened, of course she would've told her mommy about it. The fact that she didn't tell her mommy about it says to me it didn't happen.

If she does agree to testify about this, I certainly hope one of the Senators asks her to explain why she didn't tell her mommy about this supposedly horrible thing that supposedly happened to her at the high school make-out party 38 years ago.

Or was it 37 years ago? Prof. Ford is so flakey she doesn't even know what year this supposedly happened in. Again, I hope a professor can at least get her to say what year it happened in before moving on to her more contentious claims.

Cheers!
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby MD » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 02:12:28

waste of my attention, bye bye.

but I will say about the headline: too much conflict today, not enough love and understanding. The trends are bad and will not end well, unless people get a grip on forgiveness and tolerance. That's it. Bye!
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 05:24:45

Where is the left's tolerance and forgiveness for me the conservative? You do not compromise with people who would wish to disarm you and then execute you.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby dissident » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 11:03:32

I am hoping a majority of "leftists" realize that they are being led around by the nose by the MSM and internet SJW media outlets. The events since 2016 have no logical progression and are simply media induced hysteria. The MSM is trying to smear any conservative that does not worship at the altar of SJW as a full bore Nazi. This is not innocent and is some sort of power grab.

Normal people (left or right) should not accept a one-party dystopia.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 13:41:01

Another reason Prof. Ford won't testify before the Senate is that she would have to be put under oath.

Its one thing to mail secret "poison pen" letters to Congress and make anonymous claims through the media. Its is quite another to have to stand up and swear under penalty of law to tell the truth.

The fact that Prof. Ford won't swear under oath that her claims are true is very suspicious, IMHO.

AND Her request for an FBI investigation of her claims would create another Mueller investigation, where the FBI goes fishing for something incriminating rather then investigating a known crime------and, in spite of Mueller's example, its not the job of the FBI to go fishing around in people's lives for crimes.

Cheers!
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 16:01:48

Cog wrote:Where is the left's tolerance and forgiveness for me the conservative? You do not compromise with people who would wish to disarm you and then execute you.


Well, I recall it the other way around, that liberals were willing to tolerate conservatives. However, it seemed that conservatives wanted total victory. They invented the no-compromise politics which we witness today. This has now spilled over into everyone's personal views of how extreme the other side is.

One good to come of this is that apathy and being non-politicized is now a thing of the past. Well, there is good and bad in that at the same time. We would be fortunate to be allowed the luxury of being non-politicized as we once were.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 16:12:39

Yeah, it’s like two siblings

“But Mommy HE started it!”

“ No I didn’t liar!”

“Both of you to your rooms, NOW!”

Sulk, stomp, SLAM!
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:31:00

jedrider wrote:One good to come of this is that apathy and being non-politicized is now a thing of the past. Well, there is good and bad in that at the same time. We would be fortunate to be allowed the luxury of being non-politicized as we once were.


Being political isn't enough. You have to feel as though the political process is working to make the world a better place according to your metrics. I don't think either left or right wingers feel that way. I think they feel that all we have to show for the struggle is gridlock.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:20:00

asg70 wrote:.... all we have to show for the struggle is gridlock.


The US political system was intentionally designed to be cumbersome and inefficient---thats why we have three separate branches of government to provide checks and balances. AND the American people actually like it this way---thats why they keep voting in divided government.

When Bush was president the people threw the Rs out of Congress and voted in D control to give us divided government.

When Obama became president the people threw the Ds out of Congress and voted in R control to give us divided government.

Now that Trump is president I predict the people will throw the Rs out of Congress and vote in D control to give us divided government.

Gridlock and divided government isn't a bug----its an intentional feature. Its an intentional product of the way the US political system was set up.

Cheers!
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 21 Sep 2018, 13:53:37

That may be overstating it. At least some of the framers were very anti-political parties. And there is nothing in the constitution setting up political parties.

The government was designed not for gridlock but to assure nature discussion and debate between learned men, humans if you insist.

That it has development over into the partisan political wrangling is a pity.

The ladies themselves are a huge part of the problem. They need to be reformed but I don’t know how. I think Trump is in a way single finger salute to the 2 party system.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Cog » Fri 21 Sep 2018, 14:55:49

The separation of power with three co-equal branches of government was established not to achieve speedy legislation, but to act as a brake on ill-advised and hasty decisions. All with the backdrop of a constitution which further restricted government from taking any negative actions with respect to individual rights. An imperfect system but it mostly works. Much better than the rule of the mob which is what a pure democracy turns into.
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Re: Where is all this divisiveness headed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 21 Sep 2018, 15:40:14

Newfie wrote:The government was designed not for gridlock but to assure nature discussion and debate between learned men, humans if you insist.


Jefferson and the others were all well acquainted with the ancient democracies of Athens and Rome, and with the political writings about them, and about the collapse of the ancient Republics. They were under no illusions that there was an infinite supply of "learned men" who could be trusted to run our Republic in a wise way, and they were concerned about the tendencies of past republics to devolve into dictatorships or be disrupted by chaotic mob rule. They developed an ingenious plan to prevent both of these things, and to allow your garden variety average man to successfully run the government.

I used the term "gridlock" because mos/ennui/asg was using it and I was replying to his post, but the actual term of art for what the Founders came up with is "checks and balances." By setting up three different branches of government, and dividing the legislative branch into a popularly elected Congress and a more deliberative Senate, they hoped that any malign influences that cropped up anywhere within the government could be slowed and counteracted by another part of the government, providing needed checks and balances that would allow the system to survive.

Political parties arose almost as soon as Washington went back to Mt. Vernon. American politics has ALWAYS been petty and venal and full of ugly lies and personal attacks and dirty tricks.

But somehow it works (and its darned entertaining too!).
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