DesuMaiden wrote:I believe a bartering of good society will result in a post oil world. Capitalism depends on infinite growth, which is impossible on a finite planet. Capitalism is impossible in a post oil world because there will be no more growth in a post oil world. So I believe a primitive bartering economy will arise after capitalism.
People will just trade goods based off their inheritant value. I give you 10 ducks for 1 pig for example. Or I give you my daughter for two cows. People will trade goods with each other without the use of money. I believe a moneyless economy is the best type of economy.
If bartering doesn't work, I believe we will have to resort to feudalism again, which is no good. Feudalism is the same thing as capitalism except the bourgeois are now feudal lords. Feudalism will result in massive wealth inequalities again, just like capitalism.
So what will a post oil economy be like? Bartering, feudalism or socialism/communism. The closest thing to communism would be a barter-based economy because there will be the least amount of wealth inequality in such a society.
Subjectivist wrote:DesuMaiden wrote:I believe a bartering of good society will result in a post oil world. Capitalism depends on infinite growth, which is impossible on a finite planet. Capitalism is impossible in a post oil world because there will be no more growth in a post oil world. So I believe a primitive bartering economy will arise after capitalism.
People will just trade goods based off their inheritant value. I give you 10 ducks for 1 pig for example. Or I give you my daughter for two cows. People will trade goods with each other without the use of money. I believe a moneyless economy is the best type of economy.
If bartering doesn't work, I believe we will have to resort to feudalism again, which is no good. Feudalism is the same thing as capitalism except the bourgeois are now feudal lords. Feudalism will result in massive wealth inequalities again, just like capitalism.
So what will a post oil economy be like? Bartering, feudalism or socialism/communism. The closest thing to communism would be a barter-based economy because there will be the least amount of wealth inequality in such a society.
We already have neo-feudalism, only the wealthy can afford a private army, like Blackwater.
inglorious wrote:I think currencies will still be used as they're just more efficient. Perhaps you don't want to trade 10 ducks for a pig, you want a cow but the man with the cow doesn't want ducks. Currencies have been about for thousands of years, they're not dependent on a capitalist society.
Also, don't expect a collapse to in any way reduce inequality. Humans will still be humans after all. Not a happy thing to be saying I know but you may as well be a realist.
DesuMaiden wrote:I believe a bartering of good society will result in a post oil world. Capitalism depends on infinite growth, which is impossible on a finite planet.
Pops wrote:DesuMaiden wrote:
Since much of the modern, especially the rich world economy is based on waste enabled by cheap energy, if/when cheap energy leaves us there will be a very long period of deflation as the fat (then meat) is wrung out. But again, since capitalism is not defined by growth but by profit from private property and private labor, it will survive as long as the legal framework allows. There is profit to be made in any situation; even the worst disaster and humans will not become 100% self-sufficient next Tuesday, so opportunities will abound.
dolanbaker wrote: I was reading somewhere that the financial sector was only about 5% of the economy in the 1920s but was over 20% in the 1990s so there's scope for further cuts there.
Ibon wrote:Is it not a valid conclusion that as growth slows wealth will move more and more away from stock ownership and put more into tangible assets like property, farm land, factories, etc.
vtsnowedin wrote:Currency will remain due to it's utility.
Pops wrote:DesuMaiden wrote:I believe a bartering of good society will result in a post oil world. Capitalism depends on infinite growth, which is impossible on a finite planet.
First off, "bartering" is merely a manner of trade, not a type of economy. As said above, currency won't disappear, it's been around for eons and serves a useful purpose.
Capitalism does not depend on growth, merely private ownership:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitalism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... Capitalism
Only if you believe private ownership will disappear can you expect capitalism to disappear.
The whole bumper sticker bit about infinite growth is just another meaningless platitude to avoid actually thinking about the wold logically. Toss it out and go watch the game. Growth is a result of capitalism, not a requirement. Take your capital, build a factory, hire a worker (or robot) and make something. The difference between cost and sell price is profit - hopefully. Growth comes from the efficiency inherent in trying to cut costs and make the profit and the competition between producers to gain market. The capitalist must squeeze a little extra out of the worker and the worker must give a little more than he would if he were working on his on dime because he is supporting himself as well as the owner.
The point of capitalism is not growth but profit, growth may be an offshoot but is not a requirement - and not on everyone needs to be profiting either, creative destruction being a central tenet. Obviously no or negative growth doesn't equal the end of capitalism or it would have long since went kaput.
Since much of the modern, especially the rich world economy is based on waste enabled by cheap energy, if/when cheap energy leaves us there will be a very long period of deflation as the fat (then meat) is wrung out. But again, since capitalism is not defined by growth but by profit from private property and private labor, it will survive as long as the legal framework allows. There is profit to be made in any situation; even the worst disaster and humans will not become 100% self-sufficient next Tuesday, so opportunities will abound.
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