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Wake up America! Wake up World!

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 01 Apr 2020, 12:46:40

jedrider wrote:
Our choice between a mental juvenile President and a mental senile President seems like not the best set of options. We are not getting leadership on either side. Even the Democrats better start assembling a Pandemic team for this. However, they can't because they are all chicken-shits, wedded to their constituency that is leading them down a blind path.


As long as you surround yourself with competent experts and defer to their expertise as you lead then I don't give a fuck really who is president.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 01 Apr 2020, 13:37:16

I just looked up death rate in the USA and it was 0.1% approximately, so 300,000 deaths per year


Yeah, well you are only off by a factor of ten according to the CDC :roll:

• Number of deaths: 2,813,503
• Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population


but of course the CDC is distributing false numbers because apparently they are part of the conspiracy. :roll:

So, we are looking at doubling that. Quite a big deal on the capacity side.


The big deal is going to be having to sort out all the false doomer scenarios put out by you and others versus the actual factual data. I see a career for you in journalism.

Our choice between a mental juvenile President and a mental senile President seems like not the best set of options. We are not getting leadership on either side. Even the Democrats better start assembling a Pandemic team for this. However, they can't because they are all chicken-shits, wedded to their constituency that is leading them down a blind path.


Exactly what should have been done differently and what would that have resulted in? The US closed airports to travel quicker than anyone else, they weren’t as draconian as China in shutting down things but it is pretty much a stalled economy at this point. The lack of medical supplies was something that the previous government created by not stockpiling, not something Trump could have changed in his year in office. Short of sending out troops to shoot people hanging out on beaches I’m not sure what else you expect. But of course, it is easy to pin all the worlds woes on your favorite whipping boy.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 02:10:36

Ibon wrote:
jedrider wrote:
Our choice between a mental juvenile President and a mental senile President seems like not the best set of options. We are not getting leadership on either side. Even the Democrats better start assembling a Pandemic team for this. However, they can't because they are all chicken-shits, wedded to their constituency that is leading them down a blind path.


As long as you surround yourself with competent experts and defer to their expertise as you lead then I don't give a fuck really who is president.

Yup. I remember when Bush Jr. was elected and the left was going bonkers. And that was exactly my thought -- as long as he chose a good team and listened to them re critical issues, the panic/drama was overdone. (Of course the REAL issue was them not getting their way).

But I have to agree with jedrider that surely either side SHOULD be able to come up with viable candidates who are, say in their 50's with their faculties intact, instead of the usual suspects in their 70's, where at a MINIMUM, memory and rapid thinking is impaired compared to people in their prime.

At age 60, for example, I still play a pretty mean game of Jeopardy in categories I'm good at -- BUT I'm no where near as FAST at recollecting the answers I know, on average, as the typical contestant. How much worse is that at age 75ish?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 02:27:15

Good points rock. Yes, the good news re lots more (and mild) cases is it drags down the odds of getting a dangerous case, greatly -- I'd made that point to the "all is doom" folks multiple times in recent weeks.

And thanks re the tip on the cloth mask. I already knew the issue for the eyes, trade-offs for touching the face, etc. Mainly re the masks, just like wipes and hand sanitizer, I get frustrated at constant advice that Americans "should be doing X", when a HUGE proportion of them CAN'T, due to horrible planning re the folks in charge -- and it's not like the MSM shouldn't be CLUED IN to that fact.
rockdoc123 wrote:
outcastsearcher wrote:And, wow, THAT DIDN'T TAKE LONG to see another wave cranking up in China when they loosened restrictions! Last week I read about them getting things cranked up re factories, etc. and this week -- oops, another wave starting.


I don’t think this was surprising. China had it under control according to Westerners living there and reporting on conditions and all the indirect measures (factory outputs, traffic, pollution etc). So they open the airports for expanded travel and what do they get? People coming from other countries that were later on the curve than China and bring the disease back in. Obviously the infection rate didn’t hit everyone in China as they had closed down pretty quickly so now with airports open and disease coming back in there is still a large part of the population susceptible.

My main point there, which I didn't make clear, was how stunningly FAST that happened after they opened things up. Now, as you say, with the problem re travelers likely already ramping things up for much of the new wave, it's not that surprising. I had been thinking they were more or less ALL OVER the traveler problem based on articles I'd seen, and almost the whole problem was the (undisclosed / unknown) spreading re the asymptomatic patients, which they apparently KNEW about, vs. just the total cluelessness in the US and Europe by experts who SHOULD have known better, given what had transpired in China.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 10:07:33

rockdoc123 wrote:The lack of medical supplies was something that the previous government created


Here comes the blame-shifting.

Image

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 13:14:27

Here comes the blame-shifting.


a simple statement of facts. Medical grade masks which are now in short supply were completely depleted during the Swine flu epidemic in the early part of Obama's first term. He had eight years to replenish that equipment and sought not to do so. Suddenly blaming it on the guy who has been there for 1.5 years I find incredulous. But of course, you make up your own facts.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 14:42:18

rockdoc123 wrote:a simple statement of facts.


A simple statement of...partisan bullshit.

Trump had 3 years to replenish.

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... -pandemic/

Then he disbanded the pandemic team.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 064881002/

Then he downplayed the risks when he should have locked down, setting the stage for many unnecessary deaths.

Funny how you omit these salient "facts" in order to pass the buck.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 15:00:01

A simple statement of...partisan bullshit.


says the person who at every opportunity points to Orange Man Bad. Give it a break, nobodies buying it. As I've said numerous times not living in the US I cannot be "partisan". I do, however, see things from the perspective of what actually happened and what is good and bad for business and the economy.

Trump had 3 years to replenish.

During which time he couldn't get much done as the House was fully concentrated on impeachment rather than enacting legislation. I guess he could have issued executive order after executive order like his predecessor but the press would have lost their minds over that. His hands have been largely tied so it is pretty amazing he got anything done.

Funny how you omit these salient "facts" in order to pass the buck.


blaming everything on Trump is nothing more than "passing the buck" but your partisan viewpoint keeps you from seeing that. :roll:
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby sparky » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 16:11:30

.
Why blame some puppet politicians , those guys are just for the entertainment of the masses
the real question is
...why the greatest nation in the world has a monstrously large military and a third world health system

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... item-start

It could be argued that the US has the most expensive for the least efficient health system in the world
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 16:56:06

rockdoc123 wrote:says the person who at every opportunity points to Orange Man Bad


That wouldn't happen if he didn't give his critics ammunition.

rockdoc123 wrote:As I've said numerous times not living in the US I cannot be "partisan"


Call it what you want, you're obviously on one side and not the other.

rockdoc123 wrote:he couldn't get much done as the House was fully concentrated on impeachment


When you commit impeachable offenses, what do you expect to happen?

He did indeed get impeached and if he was actually removed from office I have no doubt Pence would be managing this crisis better by himself.

Policy differences aside, Trump is objectively...unfit to serve by virtue of his stupidity. Even his own cabinet said as much when the whistleblower wrote that op-ed to the NY Times. Everyone who has actually served in close proximity to him winds up shocked and disturbed by how much of a gibbering idiot he is, even those who once admired him from afar. Even to ideological allies he is little more than a bumbling bull in a china shop figurehead whether they're willing to openly admit it or not.

But to assume that all this criticism is just haterade? Come on.

rockdoc123 wrote:blaming everything on Trump


He deserves all of the blame I laid out for him and you've offered no compelling evidence to the contrary.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby dissident » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 18:30:04

sparky wrote:.
Why blame some puppet politicians , those guys are just for the entertainment of the masses
the real question is
...why the greatest nation in the world has a monstrously large military and a third world health system

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... item-start

It could be argued that the US has the most expensive for the least efficient health system in the world


Even though there are serious issues, the metric you apply is flawed. You assume that a better health care system would somehow result in less infections and deaths. That does not follow. The covidiot culture of flouting quarantine and movement controls is the prime reason for the spread of the pandemic in the USA. A ten times better health care system would not be change this fact.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 02 Apr 2020, 19:00:41

asg70 wrote:
rockdoc123 wrote:The lack of medical supplies was something that the previous government created


Here comes the blame-shifting.

Image

While you're playing the blame game (and Trump owns plenty), accept reality. HRC being president wouldn't mean, for example, that the US national stockpile of masks would be 100% of what it should be for a global pandemic, instead of 3%.

Both sides get plenty of blame, and both sides should OWN it, instead of just trying to score political points.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby sparky » Fri 03 Apr 2020, 04:32:16

.

Quoting form one of the News item

" The thing is, you have to build redundancy into the system, some overcapacity.
If you have capacity, then you don’t have to slow down things so much. Think of fire-fighting. Fires are quick, they need to be attacked quickly. You have to
have overcapacity. Fire engines sitting around idly, seemingly uselessly, until the call comes. Firefighters being bored, playing cards (or, rather, playing their
smartphones). But no-one will say, “We don’t need so many of them if they don’t actually work.” At some point, they will be needed, in a flash.

And that goes for the health care system as well. There should have been many more hospital beds available (even if empty most of the time), more respirators,
protective suits, and so forth. If you don’t have that infrastructure, you will have to build it quickly, "

I don't see the Pentagon arguing on what they need now , they always argue what they might need if there is a crisis
same for health infrastructure , you need some serious slack to cope with overflow
take the electrical industry , they Know they need excess capacity ready to cope with a crisis and they do , very well and quite unreported
the rule in Australia is they need to have ready within a couple of minutes the same spare production as the largest producer on line

If you tailor your system to the tightest requirement on a fair day , one thing is for sure , on a bad day you will not cope

For shame ,protected by corrupt politicians, the life of US patients has been discounted as little more than a juicy market for the medical industry ,
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby mmasters » Fri 03 Apr 2020, 15:26:09

I'm afraid asg70 has too much air on the brain.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby sparky » Sun 12 Apr 2020, 05:12:16

.
As far as medical disaster in an advanced country goes ,
the US is mightily striving to prove they can have a greater disaster than anyone ...go america !
the issue I'm watching is the "what next "
medical orderly paid 37 thousand bucks a year ! ...to risk their life
how about taking some money from the pentagon to give them a raise
a few ten thousand dollar hammers would help
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 12 Apr 2020, 10:21:13

sparky wrote:.
medical orderly paid 37 thousand bucks a year ! ...to risk their life


Why stop there? How about grocery store staff?

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Wake up America! Wake up World!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 12 Apr 2020, 14:25:25

asg70 wrote:
sparky wrote:.
medical orderly paid 37 thousand bucks a year ! ...to risk their life


Why stop there? How about grocery store staff?

And to be fair, (educated) medical staff should know (but maybe not the folks who throw out the medical waste) that part of their job will entail them being at a certain level of risk to infectious disease over the course of their lives -- to the extent they work near patients. (Those doing pure research, possibly not so much, depending on what they're doing).

Someone like a grocery store (or ANY) check-out person, well, even if decently educated, probably only "signed up" for more risk of getting colds and flu when they decided on doing that kind of work.

From what I can tell, the better companies are at least TRYING to make things safer overall. Last time I went to Kroger, everyone waits 30 seconds to get in. This temporal spacing helps avoid a huge in-store population. One door is only in, and another door on the other side of the store is only out -- so reducing cross-traffic spread. When checking out, I saw they'd installed a nice big, sturdy plastic shield which shields the cashier from getting breathed on by the customers. (And vice versa, since thus far, almost NO one is wearing masks in such places, despite the advice. I was concerned by simple pullover face mask might be frowned on as I don't sew, but hell, I was only one of about maybe 10% of customers and ZERO% of employees wearing ANY kind of mask, from what I saw).

So hopefully, over time, re such precautions, employees aside from front line doctors, nurses, EMT's, etc. will be taking less risk by interacting with the public on their job environment.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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