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Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 15 Jun 2020, 18:57:03

In another of my series on 'who's killing the planet'--we all knew dairy was a problem, unless you were in denial...but I didn't realize just how much CO2 some of these companies are responsible for:

Big Dairy Has a Big Carbon Problem

https://earther.gizmodo.com/big-dairy-h ... 1844038061

The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy put out the report last week. The report relies on 2017 milk intake data, the most recent offered from the Dairy Research Center, which tracks global milk production.

From 2015 to 2017, greenhouse gas emissions increased by 11%. That’s equivalent to more than 35 billion pounds of coal burned.

Some individual companies, however, saw their emissions rise some 30%. Thirteen of the world’s top dairy producers emit more carbon pollution combined than ConocoPhillips."


Also see the study itself here:

Milking the Planet

https://www.iatp.org/milking-planet
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 11:51:20

Any agricultural product...be it milk, tea, coffee etc., will have a giant CO2 footprint, because modern agriculture has a giant CO2 footprint. Even water has a huge CO2 footprint what with the pumping and infrastructure needed to deliver water.

The problem isn't milk-----the problem is the world is emitting too much CO2 in all of its activities.

Rather then addressing and denouncing milk it would make more sense, IMHO, to do a top-down analysis of global CO2 emissions and enact a global strategy to reduce CO2 emissions using a county by country and industry by industry approach.

Of course, this would require a global commitment to cut CO2 emissions. AND, of course, that was the purpose of the UN Climate Treaty process, until it was unfortunately diverted following the collapse of the COPENHAGEN UN COP meeting over a decade ago.

If cutting CO2 emissions is the goal, then the world needs to commit formally to a binding UN treaty to cut CO2 emissions. Its the only way.

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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 13:13:08

False equivalence.

Yes, we should be reducing pretty much everywhere.

But a rational approach would be to look at what areas produce the most CO2, and especially those high emitters that are the easiest to replace or do without.

Milk (and other dairy) rather obviously fits in to this. Few if anyone really needs it, and in fact it makes many people sick (and many don't even realize it is having this effect).
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 13:19:47

dohboi wrote: look at what areas produce the most CO2, and especially those high emitters that are the easiest to replace or do without.

Milk (and other dairy) rather obviously fits in to this.


I strongly disagree with your suggestion that one can "do without" dairy. I was down working on my lake cabin yesterday and it was 75°! Thats really hot by Alaska standards, and so I had a hot fudge sundae with Alaska blackberry ice cream (dairy) and hot fudge (dairy) and almonds and whipped cream (dairy) for dinner.

It was incredibly delicious.

Image
No way I can live without dairy. Ice cream is one of life's essential foods and one of life's most delightful experiences.

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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 13:39:25

:-D

Yes, and my wife was shocked when the Swiss took coffee off their list of essential supplies to be included for their bunkers in case of major catastrophe...

About the same level of seriousness, but we are in fact talking about a very serious issue, existential in fact.

If faced with a choice between death (and death of most of the rest of human and other life on earth) and a nice bowl of ice cream...
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 14:08:18

I will stop drinking milk AFTER the rest of you start breeding at a sustainable level (to me that is no more than 2 offspring per woman or man under any circumstances. Back to my milk caramel ice cream now!
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 15:15:27

Milk is not that good for you anyway. Cheese, I will have to think that over. I go vegan for months at a time and I don't really miss any of it.

At a party, with wine, well, you need something to soak up all that alcohol.

Wine is probably another food with a huge ecological foot print. Why can't they just use bigger bottles?
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 15:31:14

jed, just so you know, I'm not really very absolutist about any of this.

Having a bite of cheese or even meat every once in a while is probably sustainable if everyone on the planet only had that much.

And good point about health. As I mentioned, dairy/milk products are basically poison for most people on the planet, some worse than others. It's really only some Europeans, Indians, East Africans, and a few others who have the enzymes to reliably digest the stuff, and it's quite a recent adaptation among those populations.

And it's not just a lactose intolerance issue:

Milk and other dairy products are the top source of saturated fat in the American diet, contributing to heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and Alzheimer's disease. Studies have also linked dairy to an increased risk of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers....



www.pcrm.org › good-nutrition › nutrition-information
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 17:53:59

dohboi wrote:Having a bite of cheese or even meat every once in a while is probably sustainable if everyone on the planet only had that much. ....

[/quote]

I always find it amusing when people get all wee-wee'd up because some other people are eating a piece of cheese or enjoying an ice cream cone.

Meanwhile, China is building coal-fired electrical power plants in country after country along the ring road and the supposed leaders of the environmental movement like Al Gore are flying around in private jets, spewing out CO2 by the ton.

But never mind the actual huge sources of CO2 emissions on our planet......lets vilify those people over there who are eating cheese!

Image
Sure China emits huge amounts of CO2 and is the main reason CO2 levels in the atmosphere increase every year....but don't forget those people who occasionally drink some milk or eat some cheese or even like an ice cream cone once in a while on a hot day!

Cheers!

PS---on second thought maybe I'm being too hasty to make fun of the impact of milk on global CO2 emissions......SO Does anyone have a good estimate for what percentage of global CO2 emission can be attributed to milk production?
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Sys1 » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 18:46:04

I always ate cheese, I'm french.
I think that a life without cheese is a pointless life.
No cheese, no pizza. No pizza, not worth living.
Earth itself would be a pointless place without pizzas.
What is your utopia?
Vegetarians eating salad and singing Aleluia?
Not my dream!
So I will keep eating cheese and pizzas.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 19:49:36

I forgot about cheese! Well, this is a no brainer for me now! I will never stop eating cheese under any circumstances! Not even if the rest of you started breeding sustainably.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 21:21:44

Our Jersey cow gave birth 3 weeks ago and we are now making butter, home made ice cream, farmers cheese and yoghurt. Freezing the farmers cheese for future use in our restaurant and for personal consumption.

None of us drink milk here. Unfortunately I am lactose intolerant but can eat butter, yohgurt and cheese. It was hard giving up Ice cream but we also make oat milk and you put fresh strawberries and blackberries and a banana in a blender with oat milk and the smoothies are awesome!
No milk required.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby REAL Green » Wed 17 Jun 2020, 22:17:56

Ibon wrote:None of us drink milk here. Unfortunately I am lactose intolerant but can eat butter, yohgurt and cheese. It was hard giving up Ice cream but we also make oat milk and you put fresh strawberries and blackberries and a banana in a blender with oat milk and the smoothies are awesome! No milk required.


One of the most delicious parts of raising goats is when we wean the bucklings from the herd. The does have huge bulging utters so we milk them. I love the warm fresh goat milk as a delicacy.

Tomorrow I am traveling to a Mennonite farm to pick up 3 weeks worth of plain yogurt, butter, and milk. The whole milk is for my boys. I love whole milk but avoid it for health reasons. I am making an effort to support local farmer over the big producers so this is why I go to the Mennonites. I am unhappy about the drive which will be an hour round trip but I am supporting a local daily farmer that does not do any additives. This is milk the old fashion way.

I eat a cup of plain yogurt with walnuts in the mornings when I have breakfast. On Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I include my farm raised honey on my yogurt. I support a local bee keeper to raise honey on my land. I fast twice a week where I eat nothing this is Monday and Thursday. I restrict sugar for health reasons until Friday. So, Tuesday and Wednesday I eat plain yogurt and walnuts no sugars.

I hear you Ibon on milk alternatives. Since I have borderline cholesterol issues, I put oat milk, flax milk, almond milk, hemp milk, macadamia milk, and or soymilk in my morning cereal as an alternative. Mind you I prefer whole milk any day. My cereal is hemp seed, flax seed, dried unsweetened cherries, and Ezekiel sprouted grain cereal. I then put in a ½ teaspoon of real Ceylon cinnamon. For me this is the basics of good health because latter in the day I might eat a ribeye steak or something.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 02:29:07

My wife, also lactose intolerant (didn't realize it for decades...I'm sure that's true for many), just discovered oatmilk, and now she far prefers it to other non-dairy choices for her coffee drinks.

If someone doesn't want to give up cheese, fine, give up meat then, or plane travel, or driving in cars, or having more than one kid...

If you don't want to give up anything even though the planet is crashing down around our ears from our over-consumption, then you may have to face the fact that you are the problem
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 07:08:44

dohboi wrote:just discovered oatmilk, and now she far prefers it to other non-dairy choices for her coffee drinks.


I love oat milk but I wish it were cheaper. All this talk about it is only going to drive the coast up. LOL.


dohboi wrote:If someone doesn't want to give up cheese, fine, give up meat then, or plane travel, or driving in cars, or having more than one kid...


I would like to adapt that thought. I think we need to reduce grain fed animals but let’s be realistic becuase so much land is not good for anything else but grazing. 7BIL people will not make it on a vegan diet in my opinion. Vegan that ships in things from Cali is not green either. The rich liberals talking this stuff is just more FAKE Green. Let’s get more veggies in our diets and less meats for the health of the planet and ourselves but let’s be realistic about how far we can go with that. I am definitely for reducing the use of the car/plane. Basically, REAL Green is anti-car culture but in a realistic way. We are trapped in it so try to reduce it but leaving it is hard for most. Keep in mind somebody that gives up a car but also eats from a grocery store that brought food in from all over the world is still embracing the car culture. I also think more support needs to be given those who do not have children but keep in mind if civilization starts to unravel, we will have to have families in farming because human labor will be part of survival. People will be dying more so there will need to be more kids to offset this.

dohboi wrote:If you don't want to give up anything even though the planet is crashing down around our ears from our over-consumption, then you may have to face the fact that you are the problem


I definitely am all for consumption reductions and this is why I am pushing degrowth but a realistic degrowth. Meats are an excellent way to turn solar into human calories. Animal cultures are a great way of life. We need more animal and human labor locally with less industrial agriculture. It pains me to see how animals are mistreated in large meat operations! The old ways of the pre-industrial periods impress me with how people managed life with animals. My wife is from northern Italy in the Dolomites. I visited a village that was like a museum because it explained how this village once had more animals than people. It showed how people lived with pics and explanations. It was fascinating and enlightening. It is my opinion we need to be moving more in that direction than our drive to urbanization with vertical gardens. Really since we are now trapped in urbanization, I say we need both strategies. Localism with more animal and human labor along with smart urbanization with vertical gardening and community gardening. The thing is localism is not competitive with capitalism so some kind of protections and subsidies are needed to promote and protect this vital way of life.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 09:15:54

REAL Green wrote:
dohboi wrote:just discovered oatmilk, and now she far prefers it to other non-dairy choices for her coffee drinks.


I love oat milk but I wish it were cheaper. All this talk about it is only going to drive the coast up. LOL.

.


We make it homemade here. Less than a cup of raw oats will make a liter. It is the cheapest of all the non dairy "milks" to make since oats are cheaper than almonds or soy. My daughter makes it.

It is great for cappucinos, smoothies and baking....

TO drink straight it is a bit too viscous for my tastes. If I want to have something like a cereal then I dilute the oatmilk with store bought almond drink to give it smoother consistency.
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 09:20:15

Here is a perfect example of White Privilege. What do you call an old prof who wants to focus on every behavior other people engage in that doesn't meet with his esteemed approval? A person who starts topic after topic after topic pointing out these picayune issues ratehr than focusing on the real problems?

I call that White Privilege. YMMV
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 09:31:03

In regards to these series of "killing the Planet" themes I think what is missing is the context regarding production and localization. If you are an urban consumer beholden to supporting industrial agriculture then the consequences of your consumption is totally different than say having a single Jersey cow where you make your own products and share this with staff and neighbors. What is missing on all these threads is the organic and community context of ones consumption.

Also how much of what you eat do you grow. How much of your own labor is involved in what you consume.

In reference to our Jersey cow we bought her for $ 250 dollars 18 months ago as a small calf. We grazed her on our pastures and took care of her for 18 months to bring her to her first pregnancy and birth and every morning at 6am and again in the afternoon someone is milking her. And we spend hours making the butter, cheese and yoghurt.... Contrast this to just going to the store and buying milk and consuming it and then having all this spare time not laboring to reflect on how shallow your life is.........
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Re: Milk Drinkers Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 18 Jun 2020, 10:05:24

Ibon wrote:We make it homemade here. Less than a cup of raw oats will make a liter. It is the cheapest of all the non dairy "milks" to make since oats are cheaper than almonds or soy. My daughter makes it.


Thanks for the info. I once made soy milk with a little soy milk maker. I will get the wife on it she enjoys making things in the kitchen.
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