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Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 1

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 13:55:38

Plantagenet wrote:Image
How Donald Trump sees the world.....

Cheers!


Did you make this? "they copied my Taj Mahal" was very funny and made me laugh!
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 16:36:25

Focusing on Trump alone simplifies ones world view, to absurdity.

Name the five biggest issues facing humanity today. Here’s my list

Resource depletion (oil/soil/water, etc)
Anti-bacterial resistance
Climate change
The Global financial Ponzi scheme
Over population

Now name the five biggest problems if you focus on Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 16:50:37

Newfie wrote:Focusing on Trump alone simplifies ones world view, to absurdity.

Name the five biggest issues facing humanity today. Here’s my list

Resource depletion (oil/soil/water, etc)
Anti-bacterial resistance
Climate change
The Global financial Ponzi scheme
Over population

Now name the five biggest problems if you focus on Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump


I know, you bring this up frequently, but let's face it, we wont even begin to tackle these issues without first getting through the current drama... Unfortunately you DO have to engage in this, after all, US citizens voted in this flawed human being, you just can't ignore that and just leap frog over the dysfunction to real pragmatic problem solving.

On the other hand, what you are pointing out does reveal the truth that most Americans enjoy the entertainment of this current drama more than moving on to fixing the hard stuff which takes a lot of work........ endless bitching about the incompetent characters in Washington DC is an indolent deflection.

I can assure you the Russians never could have in their wildest dreams anticipated how well their strategy worked! The truth of that alone should bring Americans together and break the polarity to impeach this bastard. But alas, drama rules!!!!!

Empires implode from within as much as they are conquered from without.

We are doing a damn good job in following the historical script here.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 17:43:51

The "How Trump sees the world" map above is from the Daily Beast....something they published back during the 2016 election

-------------------------

Big news today on ZeroHedge. A Ukrainian MP is saying that evidence has been produced in Ukraine that shows Joe Biden getting almost a million dollars from Burisma in the Ukraine. Burisma is the same NG company that paid Hunter Biden three million dollars.

joe-biden-personally-paid-900000-burisma-according-ukrainian-mp-bombshell-admission

OK....its the Ukraine. And its Zerohedge. But nonetheless this is pretty amazing news. It looks like both father Joe Biden and son Hunter Biden were getting paid huge amounts of money by Burisma in Ukraine......

I think Trump should get on the phone again and ask the Ukrainian President to investigate corruption in Ukraine, including these payments to Joe and Hunter Biden from Burisma. If this report is right, then the Bidens are dirty. IMHO this really should be looked into.....this report may simultaneously convict the Bidens and clear Trump.

Image
Are the Bidens a "crime family"? New investigations in Ukraine make it look that way......

Cheers
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 18:02:47

Thanks Ibon.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Wed 09 Oct 2019, 19:25:49

The Dems new found love of the Constitution and democracy gave me a few laughs today.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 09:32:02

Sometimes I wonder if the whole impeachment thing is really about discrediting Trump so as to undercut his trade and other international negotiations.

I look for the hand of TPTB in this mess and wonder if that’s not what I am seeing. Makes as much sense as anything else. Would explain Pelozie’s behavior.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:32:35

Look, if Trump thought Biden was crooked, then he should have asked the people under him to launch an investigation. Asking some foreign power to do so doesn't make any sense. Even if access to information and resources were a problem, that only takes time and money. He could only have been worried about political blowback. Perhaps it was too sticky for him, given the FBI's investigation of him? Maybe he knew that as long as Biden was acting in the country's interests nothing would come of it, and any investigation could tend to empower Biden's position come election time? As far as receiving money goes, I hadn't heard anything about that regarding Joe. That too wouldn't be an issue, if he got it according to the law. Just receiving money is not a crime.

The issue here is abuse of power, though. It isn't about observation of protocol. I didn't think anything was going to rise to an impeachable offense from Trump. I never voted in the poll attached to this thread because I didn't believe it would come to this. But he actually withheld money for Ukraine's defense so that he could get help with his own re-election. I was listening to a radio interview the other day, a couple of weeks ago, between a reporter and some lower level person at the State Department. It seems that it was common knowledge why the money was held up.

This issue has a direct connection to peak oil. Say what you will about peak oil being discredited, but, in the long term it has to run out. Maybe there are all sorts of short term answers, like fracking, that will, and have, held off any impact, but what is the long term solution vis a vis the US? The US military has been, or is threatening, rolling up through the Middle East, one country at a time. You can call the process a deep state machination, if you wish. Personally, I don't know how the US maintains clarity regarding that policy, as it extends well beyond any one administration, except that each new group of people rationally arrive at the same set of conclusions. There must be supporters of it at the Pentagon as well.

Anyway, that same policy doesn't look like it will stop at Iran, which is the next logical target. If they can't take it out militarily, they will take it out either through economic or political destabilization. Beyond Iran, Russia looks like it is in the crosshairs. The Ukraine is critical to pulling that off. In addition to recalcitrantly pulling back from globalization, Trump has also acted against this policy. Backing him on this suggests believing he is actually some kind of super brain loaded with more wisdom than all of those planners who've come before. I think he is acting more like an alcoholic who is perfectly willing to place his own family in danger in order to keep getting what he wants.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:50:20

Look, if Trump thought Biden was crooked, then he should have asked the people under him to launch an investigation.


Unless those people had a history of trying to undermine you and supporting the people you want investigated?

That does not completely absolve Trump however it is a mitigating circumstance.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:52:56

.
Look for it to be all about corruption, trump's.

Two men connected to Giuliani's Ukraine efforts arrested on campaign finance charges

Ibon wrote:I can assure you the Russians never could have in their wildest dreams anticipated how well their strategy worked!

This was never about a few facebook ads. There are billions of dollars at stake, this is all about relaxing sanctions on the people who did to USSR what the Rs have long dreamed of doing to the US: privatizing it's every resource. From public lands to SocSec, if they can get it into private hands they know they can get it.

Romney and trump are in exactly the same business, buy something, borrow against it, take the money and run. Actually Boone Pickens would approve as well, since he was the first to promote "shareholder value" by selling off corporate assets to the highest bidder. This is that strategy taken to its logical conclusion.

I decided a long time ago that "businessmen" saw putin et al getting rich beyond all imagining by diviing up the soviet state amongst themselves and wanted in on the action. At first I couldn't fathom why trump would hire Manafort, a guy who represented and promoted a corrupt Ukrainian government doing just this, now it is obvious.

How a Ukrainian Gas Company Wound Up in the Middle of Trump's Impeachment Drama
trumps weakness is projection: "I'm not the puppet, you're the puppet." The obviousness of his newfound war on "corruption" is just so laughable, it is the smoking gun, LOL

The problem the Ds will have is staying ahead of the crimes. The russia investigation fell flat because first, Barr lied about it, but mostly because the day to day BS fire hose coming from trumps mouth and his daily outrage obscures everything else. trump knows if he acts outrageously corruptly in public people simply move on because who can keep up? It worked when he said on TV he fired Comey because of the investigation — into him, and it's been working since
.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 11:48:15

evilgenius wrote:I think he is acting more like an alcoholic who is perfectly willing to place his own family in danger in order to keep getting what he wants.


That family is also made up of Republican senators in congress who may increasingly see the need of intervention.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 11:50:45

Pops wrote:
Romney and trump are in exactly the same business, buy something, borrow against it, take the money and run. Actually Boone Pickens would approve as well, since he was the first to promote "shareholder value" by selling off corporate assets to the highest bidder. This is that strategy taken to its logical conclusion.

I decided a long time ago that "businessmen" saw putin et al getting rich beyond all imagining by diviing up the soviet state amongst themselves and wanted in on the action. At first I couldn't fathom why trump would hire Manafort, a guy who represented and promoted a corrupt Ukrainian government doing just this, now it is obvious.
.


Deutsche Bank needs to spill the beans .
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:48:30

The Deutsch bank story was already blown away and CNN already apologized for mis-reporting it. Do try to keep up.

President Zalinsky, of Ukraine, has now said twice there was no quid pro quo, and today he said there was no blackmail in regards to how he viewed his conversation with Trump. I guess you Dems could kidnap and torture Zalinsky until he said the words you want him to say, but that really wouldn't be cricket.

I love watching Dems panic about losing in 2020. Your tears are treasured.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:56:17

Just because it bears repeating. The Mueller reports concluded in Volume One that No American colluded or conspired with Russia to affect the 2016 election. I guess you guys can't read the report you placed so much of your hopes in.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 14:59:48

Hey Cog, the Trump white house should just cooperate. If it's a hoax, the American people will vote him in again.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 15:24:44

jedrider wrote:the .... white house should just cooperate.


Why? If its illegitimate inquiry, then why cooperate with corruption and illegitimacy? Queen Nancy does not have the constitutional power to begin impeachment inquiries just on her say-so. According to the Constitution, impeachment is the prerogative of the entire house---not just Queen Nancy and not just one party acting alone for purely partisan reasons.

Here's an alternative suggestion. How about the House of Representatives take a vote on whether or not to start an impeachment inquiry. If the House votes to approve an inquiry, then they can also vote on the procedure to be followed, and then proceed under normal order, i.e. no secret hearings, impeachment inquiry done in the judiciary committee where it belongs, and both sides allowed to call witnesses.

Image
Mad Queen Nancy does not have the constitutional authority on her own to start and stop the impeachment process just by issuing a royal decree. The constitution says impeachment is the prerogative of the House of Representatives ....not just mad Queen Nancy.

Cheers!
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 16:09:41

Plantagenet wrote:Why? If its illegitimate inquiry, then why cooperate with corruption and illegitimacy?


To hide more corruption and illegitimacy.

Congress does have the right to investigate.

Didn't Trump call to 'impeach' members of Congress? Trump is so melodramatic. That is not how it works.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 16:15:31

Plantagenet wrote:According to the Constitution, impeachment is the prerogative of the entire house---not just Queen Nancy and not just one party acting alone for purely partisan reasons.

Prove it.
Quote it.
Show us.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 17:59:59

I was just listening to a podcast about Arthur Koestler's famous book "Darkness at Noon.." which is based on the Moscow Show Trials of the 1930s. It struck me that the Moscow Show Trials actually have a lot in common with the Current D inquiry concerning Trump. For instance:

Proceedings and testimony were taken in secret---ditto for what the Ds are doing now.
The "accused" parties couldn't call witness in their defense or participate in any normal way in the judicial process-----ditto for what the Ds are doing now
The Moscow Show Trials assumed guilt------ditto for the Ds now.
The prosecutors routinely lied in Moscow ----- ditto for the Ds now
The prosecution was totally political and totally controlled by one party------ditto for the Ds now.
The accused were not allowed their own attorneys------ditto for the Ds now.
AND the Moscow show trials were done entirely at the behest of one person. No voting or majority is needed. This person is called "number one" in the book but clearly is meant to be Stalin-------ditto for the Ds now with "number one" being Queen Nancy who hath issued her royal decree that Trump must be impeached because........because...........well because he isn't a D, of course.

The similarities are quite striking.

Image
Confess your thought crimes, Rubishov Trump!

Have a great day!

Cheers!
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Thu 10 Oct 2019, 18:28:55

So no constitutional citation?
Surprise.

The house impeaches, much like a grand jury. The object of the prosecution doesn't testify, doesn't present witnesses, doesn't cross examine, doesn't even usually know he's being targeted I believe.

Only the prosecution presents a case.
The grand jury then decides if there is sufficient evidence to indict, or in this case, impeach.

I know that's not what rush and hannity are telling you but that's how it works.
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