[Ibon]

The FBI brought this upon themselves. Does this discredit extend tot he CIA? It’s likely. So don’t blame that on Trump. And that he is screwing with their operation and resisting their handling is one of the good things he is doing. The need to be shaken up.

Take Trump out of the picture and show me the evidence of the security apparatus leaning democrat or left?
In other words, where has the security apparatus specifically gone against the republicans, not Trump, but your traditional conservative Republicans.

Isn't there a confusion here that the investigations against Trump is not an investigation against Republicans. It is concern over a rogue corrupt individual and not bias against a party.

If you can't demonstrate bias against the traditional republican party then your claims of political bias of the FBI and CIA is false.

I recognize that through the decades there may be slight leanings one direction or the other but the war Trump is raging today against the security apparatus is questioning their patriotism and claiming treason. I do blame Trump for that. Who else can you blame?

[Plantagenet]

Take Trump out of the picture and show me the evidence of the security apparatus leaning democrat or left?

Thats easy.

The FBI and the DOJ broke every rule in the book to let Hillary and her top D aides at the State Department off scott-free. Hillary and her staff accomplices redirected essentially all state department email traffic, including thousands of secret and confidential documents to an unsecured server in her basement at home, to an unsecured server in the cloud, to Hillary's own personal unsecured blackberry phone, and to Anthony Weiner's laptop where they were stored in a file next to his pictures of his weiner before being printed out on a dot matrix printer and then dumped in an unsecured trash can. When you look at the investigation of Hillary et alia there is example after example of the FBI and DOJ breaking all their own internal rules and policies in order to exonerate Hillary and her staff and Andrew Weiner when they are all clearly guilty of thousands of counts of violations of the espionage act.

Cheers!

[Ibon]

Take Trump out of the picture and show me the evidence of the security apparatus leaning democrat or left?

Thats easy.

The FBI and the DOJ broke every rule in the book to let Hillary and her top D aides at the State Department off scott-free. Hillary and her staff accomplices redirected essentially all state department email traffic, including thousands of secret and confidential documents to an unsecured server in her basement at home, to an unsecured server in the cloud, to Hillary's own personal unsecured blackberry phone, and to Anthony Weiner's laptop where they were stored in a file next to his pictures of his weiner before being printed out on a dot matrix printer and then dumped in an unsecured trash can. When you look at the investigation of Hillary et alia there is example after example of the FBI and DOJ breaking all their own internal rules and policies in order to exonerate Hillary and her staff and Andrew Weiner when they are all clearly guilty of thousands of counts of violations of the espionage act.

Cheers!

I think we suffer from short term memory here at the least, at the most your just totally out of wack partisan Plant.

If we look at the history of the FBI from Hoover through McCarthyism all the way to the impeachment proceedings of Clinton we can find comprable examples of less tan perfect performance of the US security apparatus. Not perfect. But not treasonous. The democrats during the Clinton impeachment were all over the map claiming collusion and deep state bullshit that the republicans were out to get Clinton. In the end it failed. You want to know one of the main reasons. Clinton himself never went out to the media and claimed the FBI or the CIA or the Republicans were out to get him. He just continued to do his job and in the end the Republicans paid dearly for trying to force impeachment down the throats of the American public who wouldn't have it.



If Trump would just shut up and do his job and not claim treason and deep state to his base the same thing would happen and the Democrats would fail completely and pay dearly for trying to impeach him. The mistake Trump is making, a huge calculated mistake, is basically going to war against the security apparatus. Calling them spies, committing treason, etc. Clinton never did that. And he survived impeachment. Trump stinks every time he goes out and claims treason against the FBI and CIA. He sounds guilty. To more and more Americans..... if this continues the Republican congress will have a green light to get rid of a bastard they all hate.

Weapons of mass destruction by Cheney and party and how the security apparatus invented yellow cake scandals. We all know this shit. Come on Plant. Wake the fuck up and step out and under from your partisan bullshit. Your about as independent as Jerry Falwell.

Trump will lose if he continues down this path. That is all I am saying. A single rogue individual vs the traditions of security institutions that go back generations? Dispute it all you want. Let's see what happens.

[Pops]

trump admits to firing comey because he's investigating trump
...crickets

trump tells Kisliak of secret spy stuff
...crickets

trump tells Kisliak not to worry about undermining our most sacred institution
...crickets

trump defends russia and throws our spies under the bus IN FRONT of putin and the world
...crickets

but her emails!

[vtsnowedin]

trump admits to firing comey because he's investigating trump
...crickets

trump tells Kisliak of secret spy stuff
...crickets

trump tells Kisliak not to worry about undermining our most sacred institution
...crickets

trump defends russia and throws our spies under the bus IN FRONT of putin and the world
...crickets

but her emails!

Pops Do you think Trump told Kisliak anything he and the rest of Putin's gang didn't already know?

[Plantagenet]

The democrats during the Clinton impeachment were all over the map claiming collusion and deep state bullshit that the republicans were out to get Clinton. In the end it failed. You want to know one of the main reasons. Clinton himself never went out to the media and claimed the FBI or the CIA or the Republicans were out to get him.

Clinton is a smart man. His problems were entirely self-inflicted.....the FBI or the CIA or even the Republicans had nothing to do with Clinton's sex addiction or his sexual assaults or with Clinton committing perjury in the civil suit filed against him by one of his sexual assault victims.

The mistake Trump is making, a huge calculated mistake, is basically going to war against the security apparatus. Calling them spies, committing treason, etc. Clinton never did that.

As I noted above, the security apparatus had nothing to do with Clinton's problems. IN contrast, Trump has had to deal with a secret FBI investigation of him during the 2016 election followed by a very public and lengthy Mueller investigation of him, all based on lies that he was a Russian agent. The FBI and DOJ even lied to the FISA court so they could wiretap Trump campaign headquarters. These lies may have had their origin in some kind of Obama administration/FBI/CIA scheme to sabotage his campaign, possibly also involving a few foreign security agents. We really don't want our security agencies subverting the FISA court system to spy on political candidates and we don't want our intelligence agencies calling in help from overseas CIA agents or their foreign friends to interfere in our US elections, and thats what the DOJ and a special investigator are looking into right now.

Trump will lose if he continues down this path. That is all I am saying. A single rogue individual vs the traditions of security institutions that go back generations? Dispute it all you want. Let's see what happens.

Trump is not a "single rogue individual." He is the duly elected president of the United States.

Trump may very well lose eventually lose but I don't see where Trump has any choice here. He'll lose for sure if he doesn't fight back. The security organizations have been attacking him since the election campaign. Trump survived the initial FBI investigation and then the Mueller investigation. Now he is facing impeachment, but once again the current impeachment investigation comes directly from the actions of a high level CIA "whistleblower" complaint. Is it just coincidence this comes just as the Trump DOJ is in the middle of an investigation of the CIA and FBI and possible wrongdoing at those agencies?

I"m not cheering for Trump, but I'm not cheering for the FBI or CIA interfering in our elections to help the Ds either.

I agree---lets see what happens.

Cheers!

[Pops]

Pops Do you think Trump told Kisliak anything he and the rest of Putin's gang didn't already know?

Of course they understand trump welcomes their help.
Hard to believe you do.

[Newfie]

Ibon,

Your argument seems to suggest that the FBI, et al sway which ever way the election swings. That itself is pretty

That said I don’t think you can find anything in the historic record that compare to the campaign against Trump carried out by Strock, Page, McCabe, et al. If you can please show me.

[Newfie]

Ibon,

Just clarify for me please exactly what is the actionable event that is triggering the impeachment? I mean other than Trump is a disposable person.

[Ibon]

Ibon,

Just clarify for me please exactly what is the actionable event that is triggering the impeachment? I mean other than Trump is a disposable person.

My personal asessment is irrelevant but here it is.

His inability to form any kind if coalition and going rogue and having a disregard for the rule of law , all of that combined is slowly having the power establishment seeing him as unstable. Look at the turnover of his administration. A successful impeachment is really about a significant majority of the electorate supporting it. Congressmen follow their constituents. If my views of Trump start being shared by a mojority of the electorate bye bye Trump.

A long shot but Trump is doing an excellent job in looking rogue and alone exactly because he is at odds with established institutions.

Question. How deep is the loyalty of the Republican party to Trump. Are there minor cracks or major fault lines forming?

I have no idea.

[Newfie]

But if the desire would be to stabilize the government how is impeachment going to accomplish that? At best you will end up with Pence as a lame duck President with a highly charged and polarized electorate.

I hear your desire, I just don’t see impeachment working to make things better. Quite the contrary actually.

We are within 13 months of an election. Then the people can reject him, if they so desire. That strikes me as a far better resolution.

[rockdoc123]

We are within 13 months of an election. Then the people can reject him, if they so desire. That strikes me as a far better resolution.

amen

that being said, not sure who the Dems can get to run that will get widespread support. Bernie looks like he is probably better off not running for health reasons, Biden probably took a big hit recently. Warren seems to be popular amongst the Dems but Wall street has said openly they will not support her in an election and you can be sure that all of the wealthy aren't going to be her fans either. She doesn't seem to be pro business (big or small) so that's got to cause some problems and her programs will result in higher taxes for everyone so farmers and laborers who actually pay tax are not going to be happy. Calling up Hilary from the bench would be an even worse mistake. Doesn't look good IMHO.

[Plantagenet]

BIG NEWS JUST OUT in the impeachment inquiry today----a secret collaboration between the CIA whistleblower and the D party has just been exposed....

schiff-and-nyt-do-damage-control-over-sneak-peek-cia-whistleblower-complaint-trump-says

The CIA whistleblower apparently was put in contact with Schiff or one of his aides BEFORE he filed his report. According to the NY Times the original whistleblower report was "vague" but Schiff put the whistleblower in touch with a crack D lawyer who helped write the final whistleblower report.

This raises an obvious question.......if the whistleblower's identity is "secret" then how did Adam Schiff find out before the report was even filed?

And who else did Schiff and his staff tell? If its a crime to reveal the whistleblower's identity then shouldn't Schiff and his staff and anyone else they told be arrested and waterboarded until they reveal their motives for revealing the whistleblower's identity?

And how did the D lawyer find out the identify of the secret whistleblower? Somebody must've told him....again leaking the very secret identify of the secret voice!!!!

And what was the original "vague" complaint by the Whistleblower?

And how much of the final complaint was written by the whistleblower.....and how much by the D lawyer with connections to Hillary and Adam Schiff? Everyone says the whistleblower complaint reads like a legal brief.....now we know why. A D lawyer wrote it and not the so-called whistleblower.

IF the whistleblower's complaint was actually written by somebody else.....and that somebody else is a hyper partisan D who works for Hillary and hates Trump.....then that casts doubt on the veracity of the whole thing. Not only did the whistleblower never witness or see anything wrong himself, but neither did the lawyer, i.e. the final report is hearsay about hearsay and not at all the same as the actual original whistleblower written by the whistleblower himself.


Now its come out that the so-called CIA whistleblower was actually coached by Adam Schiff and a D party lawyer was called in to actually write the so-called whistleblower's complaint....

SHEEESH!!!!!!!! The CIA and the D party are exposed as being in cahoots again!!!!

[Ibon]

We are within 13 months of an election. Then the people can reject him, if they so desire. That strikes me as a far better resolution.

It really does depend on how this impeachment inquiry turns out and if it is really a swamp of corruption far worse than the swamp that was supposed to be drained ....... in that case you can raise the question what happens when this corruption becomes normalized and tomorrow the populist and demagogue is a socialist women of color who harnesses a wave of diversity that with back room dealings passes laws making Cog contribute more of his taxes toward health care and education for undocumented immigrants?

[jedrider]

But if the desire would be to stabilize the government how is impeachment going to accomplish that? At best you will end up with Pence as a lame duck President with a highly charged and polarized electorate.

I hear your desire, I just don’t see impeachment working to make things better. Quite the contrary actually.

We are within 13 months of an election. Then the people can reject him, if they so desire. That strikes me as a far better resolution.

The sole purpose of impeachment is to expose the working (or disfunction) of the Trump administration and discredit all those tied up with the administration. The President tries to hide things and the Congress wants to expose things. That's all. Better? Slowing down Trump is better all by itself.

You may not agree with this assessment of the Trump administration, but it is a very obvious assessment and you must see that.

The electorate is polarized but, maybe, they will agree that Trump must go. Congress, get back to work!

[Ibon]

But if the desire would be to stabilize the government how is impeachment going to accomplish that? At best you will end up with Pence as a lame duck President with a highly charged and polarized electorate.

.

I think that is a false assumption. It could be the relief is so great that unity will be desired with a boring Pence in spite of being an evangelical die hard. His boring demeaner may be found refreshing after the adolescent drama queen.

[Pops]

Are we really that polarized?
Or are our representatives no representing us?

82 percent of us believe that the wealthy have too much influence in politics,
and 85 percent want a serious overhaul of campaign finance. ...
About two-thirds of us favor tighter gun laws.
Sixty-nine percent support limits on greenhouse-gas emissions in the United States as part of an international agreement.
More than six in 10 of us believe upper-income Americans do not pay enough,
82 percent are bothered—either “some” or “a lot”—that corporations are failing to pay their fair share.
sources

Easy to see where the "polarization" lies, between the majority of the people and republican politicians captured by the big money of the kochs, mercers, devos, etc

[Pops]

BIG NEWS JUST OUT
The CIA whistleblower apparently was put in contact with Schiff or one of his aides BEFORE he filed his report.

From the website of the office of the DNI,

"How do I report"
Making a Protected Disclosure may be as informal as a conversation with your direct supervisor to a formal submission to an IG Hotline, or even a disclosure to an intelligence committee of Congress.

[Plantagenet]

BIG NEWS JUST OUT
The CIA whistleblower apparently was put in contact with Schiff or one of his aides BEFORE he filed his report.

From the website of the office of the DNI,

"How do I report"
Making a Protected Disclosure may be as informal as a conversation with your direct supervisor to a formal submission to an IG Hotline, or even a disclosure to an intelligence committee of Congress.

1. Sorry, but Adam Schiff is not an "intelligence committee." Even worse, Schiff never told the actual intelligence committee he chairs that this guy had come to him. The reason the whole committee should have been informed is to avoid partisanship. Schiff, by dealing with the whistle blower without telling the other members of the intelligence committee what was going on, has stepped outside the rules for whistleblowers. Because the whistleblower report was done in collaboration with Adam Schiff, it is not a non-partisan complaint as should have been done. The report is instead something that Adam Schiff and his D lawyer and the CIA guy collaborated on instead of something the whistleblower wrote himself.

2. Consider that Schiff didn't just accept a submission from the so-called whistleblower----he told the CIA person that his submission was too "vague". Basically Schiff coached the CIA guy on how to write the complaint, and then he referred him to a D party lawyer who basically wrote the complaint himself so it would meet Schiff's needs. So basically Schiff and another partisan D helped write the report that Schiff will now review.

Thats tantamount to a kangaroo court.....Schiff is going to be judging Trump on the basis of a complaint that Schiff himself helped write.

------------

IMHO, this whole thing is now tainted. The whistle blower is no longer a whistleblower....he has been revealed as just another D partisan hack who ignored the rules for being a whistleblower and instead leaked confidential information to Adam Schiff in an attempt to discredit Trump. Even worse, he then worked jointly on his report with Adam Schiff and a D party lawyer, but pretended he had wrote the report himself when he turned it into the DNI.

No doubt the CIA guy had to sign a form swearing that he had written the report he submitted and that he had kept the information secret so it could be handled within normal channels....but now we know he actually leaked it to Schiff and co-wrote the report with Schiff and another D party lawyer. Thats a potential perjury charge right there for the so-called "whistleblower."

IMHO the so-called whistleblower should now be unmasked and then he should be arrested, tried and jailed for committing perjury when he submitted his report to the DNI and also put on trial for leaking confidential information White House information. Furthermore, Schiff should be censored for failing to tell his own committee that there was a whistleblower report that the rules required the entire committee to see. The lawyer who worked with the CIA guy might also be subject to charges, since the rules for making a "protected disclosure" don't include having an outside lawyer who does work for the democrat party write the report for you. The lawyer should've known better. He may well have violated the "espionage act."

Of course, I still think the Ds should've nominated Bernie instead of Hillary back in 2016 and then Bernie would've beaten Trump and we just could've have skipped all this craziness.

Cheers!

[Pops]

You really need to try some mainstream reporting and get your head out of the swamp.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The whistleblower who raised concerns about President Donald Trump’s dealings with Ukraine spoke to staffers on the House Intelligence Committee before filing a formal complaint, giving Democrats advance warning of the accusations of wrongdoing that triggered their impeachment inquiry.

The whistleblower, a member of the intelligence community, contacted the committee for guidance on how to report “possible wrongdoing,” according to Patrick Boland, a spokesman for the Intelligence Committee’s chairman, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. Boland said that “at no point did the committee review or receive the complaint in advance” and that it is a regular occurrence for whistleblowers to seek guidance from the committee.

“Consistent with the committee’s longstanding procedures, committee staff appropriately advised the whistleblower to contact an inspector general and to seek legal counsel,” Boland said. Other congressional committees follow a similar process.

The New York Times first reported the interaction.

The revelation that Democrats had spoken to the whistleblower, whose identity is not publicly known, added a new detail to the sequence of events surrounding the complaint. It could explain why Schiff quickly sounded alarm when the acting director of national intelligence withheld the complaint from Congress last month.

Edit, here's the link to the rest


So turns it was a good thing they contacted Schiff's office first, otherwise the whole thing would have been buried in another coverup

.