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Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 13:07:46

sparky wrote:.
the ultimate failure of an argument .......... little girl sad , little girl upset


Greta is sad and upset (and I would add she is also puzzled and quite angry about the failure of the UN and other agencies to take action) because the best available scientific models suggest anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing global warming which will result in irreparable harm to the environment.

Image
Yes, Greta Thunberg is sometimes very emotional about the failure of the UN and other government entities to take action over climate change

But when you understand the significance of the imminent danger posed by climate change its not surprising that people become emotional about it.

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 14:58:10

Plantagenet wrote:Greta is sad and upset


She'd also be sad and upset that fanbois like you hold her on a pedestal while feeling entitled to fly around the world polluting the skies. Tragedy of the commons...tragedy of the commons.

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-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 15:57:48

Plantagenet wrote:Greta is sad and upset (and I would add she is also puzzled and quite angry about the failure of the UN and other agencies to take action) because the best available scientific models suggest anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing global warming which will result in irreparable harm to the environment.

Yes, Greta Thunberg is sometimes very emotional about the failure of the UN and other government entities to take action over climate change

Not that most adults have their emotions under great control, but children including teens tend to be rather emotional vs. staid adult standards.

So I give her a break on being emotional about what she's passionate about, especially given the importance of the issue, as you mentioned.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 16:13:10

Reading recently about the very few folks who correctly predicted the 2007/2008 crash. They were all a bit odd and obsessive. That lead around a circle to reading Thinking:Fast and Slow by Khanaman. It last a good read but slow for me, still wading through it. It seems humans are generally very poor at making reasoned and deliberate decisions, the vast majority of our decisions are so intuitive we are not even aware of them, or how elderly the intuitive part of our brain influences our more deliberate part. Khanaman believe that it is almost impossible to improve our daily decision making but that using deliberate analysis processes can help larger organizations. He must be onto something, as a psychologist he won a Nobel in economics.

The point is that Greta, because of her unusual personality/diagnosis, may be making a more enlightened and thoughtful analysis than our world leaders. Perhaps she is like the slightly weird and obsessive guys who predicted the 2007/2008 crash. BTW, some of them went to the SEC with their analysis and data, were quietly heard, and reassured that there was nothing amiss, and shown the door.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 16:32:52

The point is that Greta, because of her unusual personality/diagnosis, may be making a more enlightened and thoughtful analysis than our world leaders.


Or she is simply being manipulated by her parents who are firm believers in the redistribution of wealth that hides behind the climate change veil.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby sparky » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 22:53:22

.
The problem is simple ,doesn't need much thinking

it is easy to demonstrate that humans in many ways are destroying the planet ,
global warming being one of the most benign among half a dozen

It is easy to get elected promising to do something
It is impossible for a politician to get elected by cutting the voters standard of living
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 06:58:40

Since Greta has now said she wants to put politicians against the wall, aka execute them, if they don't deal with climate change, she fits in perfectly now with the bulk of the radical left.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 07:19:55

[quote="rockdoc123"][quote]The point is that Greta, because of her unusual personality/diagnosis, may be making a more enlightened and thoughtful analysis than our world leaders. [/quote]

Or she is simply being manipulated by her parents who are firm believers in the redistribution of wealth that hides behind the climate change veil.[/quote]
Hardly. What it really is from the perspective of the ruling elite and wealthy class is a last ditch attempt to save Capitalism from its falling appeal to the impoverished masses, a less bountiful planet, its internal contradictions ie. too much greed undermining the Economy and of course PO. So, under the banner of saving the planet and thus humanity, the last pillaging of the Earth will occur to transition to this Green New Deal/ Economy and maintain mass consumerism and thus profiteering by the investment/ownership class
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 08:13:36

sparky wrote:.
The problem is simple ,doesn't need much thinking

it is easy to demonstrate that humans in many ways are destroying the planet ,
global warming being one of the most benign among half a dozen

It is easy to get elected promising to do something
It is impossible for a politician to get elected by cutting the voters standard of living


This is quite true. It seems the “global warming” concept has been politicized and radicalized beyond the point where coherent discussion is possible. But as you mention it is simply one of several problems of equal magnitude. And they all have common solutions, if they can properly be called solutions. Responses or adaptations may be better.

It is hard to argue that we are not running out of some vital resources such as water and arable land. Yet I see purportedly scholarly articles that ignore this and tout how we will support 10, or 12 billion folks. At the same time we read numerous articles, well documented, concerning the draw down of fossil water. And the loss of land due to poor farming practices and over exploitation but also charcoal production is easily documented. Virtually nowhere is more land being opened or new water supplies of consequence being developed. IIRC a few years ago Saudi Arabia ceased all water allotments to farmers as it was desalinated water and very expensive. They are now 100% dependent on imported food. And they have by far the highest per capita military budget. Coincidence?

Anti-bacterial was existence is another biggie, the risk is hard to evaluate.

A collapse of the global financial system to me seems a huge potential for human misery in short order and with little warning.

I’m sure other folks would have their own concerns to add to the list.

And of course simple over population is a root cause behind all of this.

It strikes me that by widening the conversation to look at the humanities future over a broader range of issues, including climate change, would engage more folks. And largely the logical reactions to any one problem would positively effect the others.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby ozcad » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 12:23:06

Unread postby Cog » 2019-Dec-14, 20:58:40
Since Greta has now said she wants to put politicians against the wall, aka execute them, if they don't deal with climate change, she fits in perfectly now with the bulk of the radical left.


Some time this century, stragglers will lament the missed opportunity we used to have to control CC by shooting less than a few hundred key people The rest of TPTB would have smartened up PDQ.

Sadly it seems likely to be too late already, and we must not be seen to encourage this kind of thinking.
Did anyone else notice that most of the countries with right-wing gummints are most noticeably dragging the AGW chain have Murdoch-dominated media?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 12:46:54

Cog wrote:Since Greta has now said she wants to put politicians against the wall, aka execute them, if they don't deal with climate change, she fits in perfectly now with the bulk of the radical left.


The radical right have also voiced support of executing the politicians for very different reasons altogether. And you know what? Both the radical left AND radical right are IMO correct. Whether you acknowledge it or not, there is plenty of overlap where the two political persuasions can agree on things.

The "democratic" governments are such in name only, and do the bidding of special interests, and have atrociously failed to represent the interests of the people who supposedly elected them. This is the root cause of the widely growing dissatisfaction between people and their governments around the world, regardless of political ideology, and this includes within it the failure to come up with a response to climate change.

The politicians will not consider any viable proposals that threaten the profits of the special interests financing them and/or that threaten to reduce the power/size of governments as "workable", even if the solutions technically are workable(an example of a solution that greatly reduces U.S. carbon emissions while shrinking the size of the state: defunding the military and surveillance state and ending all the wars). Instead, non-solutions bandied about such as tracking/taxing/continuously monitoring individual carbon usage or proposals like cap and trade are presented while granting waivers to the biggest fossil fuel polluters and the like are "solutions" that get the most support by governments to make it look like they're doing something, all the while greatly increasing the control governments(and the special interests that bribe them) have over the people.

Macron has been trying to do a lesser form of this in France, taxing the gasoline that people use, nickel and diming their use of transport with a network of unwanted speed cameras and license plate readers, while granting tax exemptions to industry and giving big business a litany of further tax breaks while raising the taxes of working people all in the name of stopping climate change. This helped spark the Yellow vest protests, which have been going on for more than a year now. The special interests, multinational corporations, and the very richest are the ones getting the seats at the discussion table on how to address this climate change(among most other issues), and the common people are being left shut out altogether. Macron's response to the protestors is to spy on them, hold "debates" where the public is denies access and are little more than scripted Q&A sessions, allow the police to assault and in some cases maim the protestors, and even threaten to have the protestors shot with live ammunition. Macron is also what passes for a "moderate" or a "centrist" these days, but has demonstrated he is only an authoritarian pretending to be a "moderate" or a "centrist", which in the 1st world "democracies", is now the new normal. Anyone who falls outside the narrow spectrum of ideologies between neoliberalism and neoconservatism is considered an extremist in most of the 1st world, even though this narrow spectrum of ideologies represents a small and overwhelmingly affluent minority of the population.

Agree with it or disagree with it, the left has a valid point about wealth distribution. WHO should reduce WHAT consumption is at the heart of this issue, and some people consume greatly more than others. Where the left has to be especially careful is with their tendency to increase the size and scope of government, since governments are the biggest consumers and carbon emitters of all, and could make the problem even worse. The right is failing to consider this disparity in consumption and emissions generation versus socioeconomic class and how to address it altogether, and like the left, is also trending towards its own brand of totalitarianism in the name of military conquest and seizing resources, which often ends up wasting more resources than it gains for a nation while allowing plenty of opportunities for the taxpayers to be fed upon, while squandering everything that the nation whose resources were stolen had built up including the embodied energy used in making what the invaded nation already had.

Overpopulation is also at the heart of the issue, but it is not the sole component of overshoot. We still have enough resources for everyone to live a dignified existence while drawing down consumption, but most of the world's resources are being consumed and squandered by a minority of the population. This dynamic does not encourage people to want to use less, as everyone wants a piece of the pie, further driving the problem. And as we are in overshoot, that pie is rapidly shrinking.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 14:50:50

Newfie wrote:Anti-bacterial was existence is another biggie, the risk is hard to evaluate.

Do you mean antibiotic resistance?

A collapse of the global financial system to me seems a huge potential for human misery in short order and with little warning.

For me it is rather a source of hope not a threat. This will finish most of our destructive economic activities.

I’m sure other folks would have their own concerns to add to the list.

Mental decay first world nations resulting in sprawl of idiocracies is very high on my list.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 14:53:40

Cog wrote:Since Greta has now said she wants to put politicians against the wall, aka execute them, if they don't deal with climate change, she fits in perfectly now with the bulk of the radical left.

There would be no loss if she did it.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 14:55:15

BTW, here's a full transcript of her recent speech:

https://www.rev.com/blog/greta-thunberg-un-climate-change-conference-speech-transcript

Or watch it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11FCyUB81rI

She not only criticizes the politicians, but also calls upon the people to change themselves. She made many of the same points I did in this topic that someone here claimed as having nothing to do with the issue of global warming or this topic.

IMO, there is something very scummy about those making a cult of personality out of her though. The crowd in that video was creepy, and probably used yet more fossil fuels to go home afterward. I don't imagine all of the attention directed her way has been good for her psyche at such a tender age, especially all of the crazies threatening to do her or her family harm.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:02:26

Newfie wrote:The point is that Greta, because of her unusual personality/diagnosis, may be making a more enlightened and thoughtful analysis than our world leaders. Perhaps she is like the slightly weird and obsessive guys who predicted the 2007/2008 crash. BTW, some of them went to the SEC with their analysis and data, were quietly heard, and reassured that there was nothing amiss, and shown the door.

I have also predicted crash within next few years in 2006, around the time I have starting posting here.
This does not make me a prophet.
Assigning some weird and often unexplainable abilities to disabled people is a part of something I would call "disabled genius ethos".
Success of Stephen Hawking was relying upon it to a large degree.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:15:43

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Assigning some weird and often unexplainable abilities to disabled people is a part of something I would call "disabled genius ethos".
Success of Stephen Hawking was relying upon it to a large degree.


Nothing all that weird or unexplainable about it when you consider that some people think differently than others do. Modern society does like to label people who think in an abnormal manner as being "disabled" or "mentally ill" somehow, as if there is something wrong with them because of the manner in which they think not being within the norm. To put autism/aspergers/other PDDs under some kind of label of mental illness is a concept that I find asinine. There is no scientific method with which to diagnose most mental illness, the criterion used is commonly subjective as opposed to objective, and the criteria is always changing with each new revision of the DSM hokum. Many "mental illnesses" are adaptations to a profoundly dysfunctional and cruel society, yet it is the individual adapting to the dysfunctional society that is labelled as "mentally ill" under the justification that they can't function within said dysfunctional society, when the root cause of the individual's problems commonly rests within circumstances outside of said individual's locus of control.

I don't think Greta is mentally ill at all. Perhaps she's being used and exploited, but she seems to be thinking about this issue in a clear and unbiased manner that our "leaders" seem totally incapable of as they are blinded by the privilege, power, and money that their positions as puppets to a cabal of international financiers affords them.
Last edited by The_Toecutter on Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:38:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:30:42

sparky wrote:.
the ultimate failure of an argument .......... little girl sad , little girl upset

finally the green movement admit reasoning bankruptcy


Greta Thunberg is a Soros project. Lots of green suckers for some reason see this "let's think emotionally instead of rationally" ploy as a good thing, but they will be sorely disappointed in the future. Soros does nothing for the good of the planet. Inducing a hysterical political climate is not going to solve humanity's climate change problem.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:35:38

dissident wrote:
Greta Thunberg is a Soros project.


Any evidence? I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that this was true.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:35:42

ozcad wrote:
Unread postby Cog » 2019-Dec-14, 20:58:40
Since Greta has now said she wants to put politicians against the wall, aka execute them, if they don't deal with climate change, she fits in perfectly now with the bulk of the radical left.


Some time this century, stragglers will lament the missed opportunity we used to have to control CC by shooting less than a few hundred key people The rest of TPTB would have smartened up PDQ.

Sadly it seems likely to be too late already, and we must not be seen to encourage this kind of thinking.
Did anyone else notice that most of the countries with right-wing gummints are most noticeably dragging the AGW chain have Murdoch-dominated media?


You cloistered westerners sound like total retards making such claims. Once politically motivated executions become the norm, then the original motive will be quickly forgotten and the shooting will move on to other target groups who don't serve someone's interests. Be sure that you will not be in the driver's seat during this nightmare. The idea that it will be some one time excision of the "baddies" is simply infantile.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 14 Dec 2019, 15:40:32

^+1
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