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Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 15:10:09

Newfie wrote:What’s the difference between a “ground swell” and a “mob”?

Depends on what you mean by mob.

A ground swell is about a feeling growing in a large group of people. This can be over time, and it doesn't have to take the form of violence in any form. Willingness to vote, to protest, to vote with one's dollars, etc. might result though.

"Mob" usually connotes disorderly (to very bad) behavior.

Except for the large numbers implied, they're not even close IMO, unless the ground swell results in mob behavior.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 15:13:56

Newfie wrote:What’s the difference between a “ground swell” and a “mob”?


My own experience. In 1985 I was in Manila when Ferdinand Marcos tried to send the military to break up demonstrators .This lead to the people power movement. I was on the streets of Manila and what happened there was a Ground Swell of opposition among the population. Non violent and it effected the very military who refused Marcos orders and this lead to his departure from the country. That ground swell was based on a virtuous opposition one might say.

That is how I would see climate change activists creating a groundswell, disparate parts of the population coming together unified. Virtuous

A mob is choas, destructive and wants to tear down but with no meaningful vision or alternative. Source is anger

That would be my definition . How about yours?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 15:30:28

Ibon wrote:That would be my definition . How about yours?

Your example and explanation basically agrees with the internet dictionary definitions I read. Since I'm not a "word guy", I always check to ensure my understandings on word definitions are essentially correct before I comment on definitions.

I've never heard "mob" used in a positive context. Some tertiary definitions like "the ordinary people" are neutral. Ground swell doesn't seem to have a good or bad context: just rapid growth.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 17:35:32

Plantagenet wrote:the UN treaty to stop production of hydrofluorocarbons to save the ozone layer was done purely in response to scientists documenting destruction of the ozone layer...there was no massive citizen's movement pressuring the UN to ban hydroflorocarbons.


They didn't need one because there were 1:1 substitutions that could be swapped into place without requiring any sacrifice on the part of the consumer. So they knew they could just fix things without the rabble whining about it. I mean, did we have to give up air-conditioners??? Are CFC substitutes prohibitively expensive??? Same deal with the elimination of leaded gasoline. Far different case with carbon emissions, as people like you who like to profligately pollute can attest with your constant excuses and rationalizations.

Plantagenet wrote:take real, substantive action.


Action that you will ultimately not support if it impedes your personal ability to pollute.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 18:04:32

Hey ASG, if you obsess on Plant or if Plant obsesses on Obama, both of those examples are myopic and demonstrate a lack of integrity if you consider the severity of the topic we are discussing. If you really believe in the severity of climate change your posts would focus on how to move the juggernaut of humanity forward, not obsessing over Plant.

Ask yourself, "What would Greta Think"
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 13 Sep 2019, 20:32:59

Find out where to go to participate in the climate strike nearest you on September 20.

US-climate-strikes-locations?

The link above goes to a site sponsored by the Sierra Club. Just type in your zip code and it brings up the location of the nearest event to you. It also has a hot link for people "not in the US" which presumably has some info about non-US climate strike events.

Image

"On September 20, three days before the UN Climate Summit in NYC, young people and adults will strike all across the US and world to demand transformative action be taken to address the climate crisis. Millions of us will take the streets to demand a right to a future, and we’re inviting you to #strikewithus

Find a strike near you to attend on September 20 on the map below. If you don’t see an event in your area, organize one! We’ll provide everything you need to get started in planning something in your community so no experience is necessary. Whether you’re 7 or 77, you’re invited to join the movement.
For more information, please visit strikewithus.org.
"

Cheers!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 14 Sep 2019, 08:44:50

I wanted to share a thought, more a reminder. If we go back to the original draw of peak oil as a game changer one of the most compelling aspects is that depletion of fossil fuels imposes immediate change in consumption habits. There is no lag time between cause and effect. Oil declines = consumption decline. Direct and immediate. No need to educate the masses, no need for international agreements, no need to socialize the population to consume less for the common good.

Climate change on the other hand has this long lag time between cause and effect. To avoid major calamity and draconian tipping points, the population has to be educated, socialized and binding international agreements that are enforceable has to be part of the solution.

This is the challenge if modern civilization wants to be proactive in moving through the consequences instead of purely being reactive to these very same consequences.

Harnessing the global population to modify their lifestyles in order to preserve the commons. This has never been done on a global scale and even at the national level there are very few examples.

A daunting challenge.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 14 Sep 2019, 09:07:36

A futile challenge, as evidenced by Plant's cognitive dissonance.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 14 Sep 2019, 22:43:14

asg70 wrote:A futile challenge, as evidenced by Plant....


Most likely a futile challenge, as evidenced by asg/mos/ennui.

Its true that the climate change deniers have both ignorance and inertia on their side.

But we can match that with our community, intelligence, youth, energy, and good looks.

IMHO the right action here is to stay positive and support Greta and the children all over the world who are organizing the global climate strike to pressure the UN to take action against climate change.

In one sense it doesn't matter whether or not the climate strike succeeds in forcing the UN to do something about climate change. Just engaging in the process of the climate strike is a step in the right direction. And perhaps we will succeed the next time....or the time after that....or the time after that.

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Support the children of the world. Climate Strike on Sept. 20th.
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