Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby FLAMEOUT » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 03:55:42

Plantagenet wrote:Greta Thunberg has called for a worldwide "climate strike" to happen on September 20th. Her goal is put pressure on the UN which is holding a climate conference starting on September 23rd.

greta-thunberg-responds-

Image
You tell 'em, kiddo!


After visiting the USA is she off to China to lecture to Xi Jinping, then sail around to Thailand, Malaysia, India and the Middle East. She'll get quite a reception in these countries of billions population - all wanting the "western" lifestyle ?

Thought not. - just lecture to the Europeans & Yanks, a few there will listen - just a few.
User avatar
FLAMEOUT
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 22 Apr 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Revi » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 07:14:59

She's right, but it's not going to happen. As a species we are incapable of saving ourselves. Even a scientist who I talked to recently said he understands what's going on, but he's not stopping flying around. It's too important to him. Even thought he knows we're doomed. He said "it's too late anyway". He studies marine biology and if anyone knows what's going on it's him. Still couldn't make the choice.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?us ... AAAJ&hl=en
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7210
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:46:29

Revi wrote: Even thought he knows we're doomed. He said "it's too late anyway". He studies marine biology and if anyone knows what's going on it's him. Still couldn't make the choice.



We have over 600 ecotourists and researchers and scientists visiting us every year. They know but they don't stop flying down here to spend time in pristine habitat.

Now tell me folks, if those in the know don't stop lifestyles with huge carbon footprints how will the rest of us?

This is sobering.

And strangely full of cognizant dissonance. Do you know one of the most common questions guests ask me up here at 1900m in the cloud forest? " Do you notice any signs of climate change?"

95% of our guests feel climate change is a major crisis of our times and most of them are politically left leaning.

Entitlement is universal and is not parked in any particular political party.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7313
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Revi » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:59:55

I agree. We do tourism all summer and I don't lecture people about their flights to visit us. Hard to get preachy when it's our living... I agree it makes us a bit hypocritical. It would be great to figure out a way that we could be tourists and not wreck the earth. There is one way to travel and not wreck the planet, if you don't include how you get there.

https://www.mainewindjammercruises.com
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7210
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:35:07

We need to start the process by educating ALL the people and also by starting with smaller and less controversial issues.

The education needs to walk back our dependence upon infinite growth. We need to dispel the idea we can have an infinitely growing economy. I believe that this is doable simply because it appeals to ones common sense and because it is so easy to make so many analogies that people can easily relate to.

That ALL the Presidential Candidates embrace the concept of a robust expanding economy tells you that they are all compromised and none have a real intent to address climate change.

https://www.wri.org/blog/2019/03/127-co ... -pollution

We can start making small adaptions that are easily agreed to. Ban single use plastic bags, require a deposit on glass and plastic bottles. There are third world countries that are accomplishing this.

How could any candidate come out against reducing plastics? Can you imagine any sane person arguing in favor of more bags or more plastic pollution? So why can’t we get a ban effected? We can’t because our government is owned by big business. Christ even China has a full ban on plastic bags whereas most western nations don’t.

My point is if we can’t do the stupid simple obvious we can’t do the difficult. So start small, demonstration changes, use that organization to push bigger agenda items.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... astic-bags
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12901
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Revi » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:47:56

If you can, watch this. It is so heartfelt it brought me to tears. I know all this stuff, but it still affected me. It's her delivery. She is so earnest and if you think about it, what matters more than this?

https://freespeech.org/stories/greta-th ... te-change/
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7210
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 13:49:32

Revi wrote:If you can, watch this. It is so heartfelt it brought me to tears. I know all this stuff, but it still affected me. It's her delivery. She is so earnest and if you think about it, what matters more than this?

https://freespeech.org/stories/greta-th ... te-change/


Thanks for the link, Revi. The one-hour in-depth interview with Greta was really interesting.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when Greta and the students of Washington DC go on strike at the White House on Friday 9/13, and especially looking forward to friday 9/20 when Greta and you and me and the whole world will go on climate strike to pressure the UN to DO SOMETHING real about climate change.

Image

Cheers!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 22511
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby GHung » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 14:55:26

Wow. People ask me why I'm not more optimistic (or a "doomer" according to some here). Just read the string of comments above.

Ibon posts that many of his customers are left-leaning, environmentally-aware eco-tourists who absolutely feel entitled to jet around the globe purely for the experience of being an ecotourist. Seems it's OK to fuck the environment in order to appear environmentally aware.

Planty, who claims to be climate-concerned and highly educated, is "looking forward to seeing what happens when Greta and the students of Washington DC go on strike at the White House on Friday 9/13, and especially looking forward to friday 9/20 when Greta and you and me and the whole world will go on climate strike to pressure the UN to DO SOMETHING real about climate change." ......, yet generally ignores those who criticise Planty's jet-setting lifestyle. It's OK to take those discretionary jaunts around the globe as long as the "UN to DOes SOMETHING real about climate change, eh, Planty? Maybe they can put an obscenely large climate tax on travel.

Newfie says we need to educate people, etc....

People need to give a damn first. THEY DON'T. No more than my Christian friends, who whine loudly about the moral direction the US is taking while supporting the most amoral-unchristian-President-one-could-conjure-out-of-hell, really give a damn about the moral direction of the country.

Good to know Planty will skip flying on 9-20. I haven't flown in over 23 years. I haven't bought grid power in 22 years. I don't go out much, sort of a hermit these days, making things out of other people's junk. It's quiet here with my wife, dogs and cat, and I prefer the company.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:09:47

GHung wrote: I haven't flown in over 23 years....


There's no point in boasting about that...the length of time since your last flight doesn't matter. All the CO2 you generated when you were flying is still up there and still contributing to heating the planet. Its effectively no different then if you had done all those flights this year----The residence time of CO2 in the atmosphere is ca. 750-1000 years.

So even if you haven't flown in decades you still have a large carbon footprint just like everyone else in the affluent western world. And in spite of your amazingly hermit-like existence now, you still drive a car occasionally....and that car emits CO2, just like everyone else's car does.

Its nice to pretend that you personally didn't help create global warming, but it just isn't true. And its difficult to admit that you and me and everyone else are all part of the problem, but why not face facts and admit it? Even Greta Thunberg emits ungodly amounts of carbon, in spite of her best efforts. We are all part of the problem.

So why not join me and many others in participating in the global climate strike on Sept. 20?

Cheers!
Last edited by Plantagenet on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:17:11, edited 1 time in total.
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 22511
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:14:35

Plantagenet wrote:pressure the UN to DO SOMETHING real about climate change.


How about carbon taxes to make your flying habit cost-prohibitive?
Plantagenet wrote:the length of time since your last flight doesn't matter. All the CO2 you generated when you were flying is still up there and still contributing to heating the planet.


Then why do you keep doing it?

Plantagenet wrote:And why not join me and many others in participating in the global climate strike on Sept. 20?


For you to jump on this bandwagon right after flying to a safari? What a joke.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:19:27

asg70 wrote: this bandwagon ....What a joke.


So you won't participate in the global strike for climate?

I'm not surprised.

You've had an unusually large carbon footprint yourself this year, too, what with your purchase of a new car.

Oh, well. Perhaps you'll change your mind about participating in the global climate strike as the momentum for the strike builds.

Have a nice day!

Cheers!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 22511
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:28:38

GHung wrote:
Ibon posts that many of his customers are left-leaning, environmentally-aware eco-tourists who absolutely feel entitled to jet around the globe purely for the experience of being an ecotourist. Seems it's OK to fuck the environment in order to appear environmentally aware.


To fine tune where our guests are coming from..... they come to find some intact pristine wilderness. This is what lures them down here. Birdwatchers, trekkers, hikers, botanists, entomologists, etc. They have a true love of nature and feel their spirits uplifted to be in a place where at nights the whole valley is black and no sign of humans. We are off the grid. Border an immense protected area. Tapirs, jaguars, mountain lions, 3 species of monkeys, etc.

So they come to a place with no trace of humans and yet coming here they left a big fat trace in their carbon footprint. This is the disconnect and it is glaring. And yet I understand. They come here to see a place not yet destroyed, not yet degraded. They read all the bad news and want to be uplifted being in a place not yet harmed.

I have a sense that slowly folks are finding it more and more difficult to hold this cognitive dissonance. This message of Greta's is nudging at this, coming fresh from a generation that will feel much more the effects than us.

So as dark as it is before midnight in the psyche of denial there is something telling me that we are nearing a point where more and more will really start connecting the dots between their personal actions and choices and how this effects the planet.

Humans are masters at squirming around confronting their shit. Rationalizations abound. And yet there comes a point when you simply can no longer squirm your way around it.......
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7313
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby FLAMEOUT » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 15:44:47

September 20th

Are all the world's volcanoes going on strike and stop erupting for 24 hours ?

Are all the world's cows stopping farting and belching for the day ?

Just asking.
User avatar
FLAMEOUT
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 22 Apr 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby GHung » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 16:36:46

Plantagenet wrote:......................

So why not join me and many others in participating in the global climate strike on Sept. 20?

Cheers!


Wow! You really refuse to get it. Joining the "Global Climate Strike" for me means living my life pretty much like every other day. Most days I don't drive. Virtually every day at my house is all solar powered. What few consumer products I'll use were bought some time back in bulk, or, more likely, salvaged. Even my internet (this computer and router) and my ISP are solar powered. Jeez, I've even stopped mowing except for a path around the house. But I'll go with it and fast on the 20th. Is that OK with you? I'm open to suggestions since my carbon footprint is likely a tiny fraction of yours and has been for a long time. Maybe die for a day? Wipe my butt with leaves? (The corn cobs aren't shucked and dry yet.)
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby GHung » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 16:41:43

Ibon wrote:...........

Humans are masters at squirming around confronting their shit. Rationalizations abound. And yet there comes a point when you simply can no longer squirm your way around it.......


.....at which point they start blaming and killing each other. No?
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 17:42:28

GHung wrote:Joining the "Global Climate Strike" for me means living my life pretty much like every other day.


Important point. But then again this climate strike is not meant for outliers like you. It is the start of bringing personal responsibility into the mainstream. So there is a long long long process here.

Plantagenet wrote:So even if you haven't flown in decades you still have a large carbon footprint just like everyone else in the affluent western world.


This is also an important point. To get where Ghung is or where I am this is on the back of decades of former consumption where we arrived at a still place after being jaded by mainstream culture. I mentioned this once before, our planet does not have enough reserves to have all 7 billion consume to the point of wisdom. Remember the Siddhartha story, the son of a privileged rich man who renounced materialism to gain enlightenment. The planet cannot handle 7 billion Siddhartha's going through this process.

I am a bit concerned about Greta. She came out of her depression by rallying to make this her singular focused issue to actually do something. Her Aspergers as she said in the video interview she sees as her asset as this gave her this singular intense focus. The media focus in the early days gave her hope that she really was doing something.

There is a 2nd stage now that will be almost daunting and I wonder how she will handle this. Even with the success in bringing the focus to the topic, even if this rallying carries a bit of weight in bringing negotiators to the table, I think we all know that the result will not be the singular focus she carries but rather a watered down ineffective compromise.

For the powers to be to actually make this a singular issue and drive policy in an uncompromising way will result in the necessary disruption to our growth based economic system.

I think we all understand that what that means is an adjustment to our lifestyles where then everyone lives like Ghung.....

How many of those attending the Sept 20 rally would really be prepared to do that? My concern for Greta is that she is going to see this truth and it will be daunting.

I don't want this to be the case, I wish her all the best and hope that what she is doing is sparking some real change.

But real change is far more of a sacrifice for most than going to a rally on September 20.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7313
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 18:06:08

What concerns me is that Greta’s movement is not really an expression of deep concern being expressed by the crowds. It’s just the cool thing to do for the moment. Greta is a “sparsely” and the crowd will tire of it and move on to the next “sparkly”.

#metoo was like this, it had its moment in the sun and is now wilting.

Rachel Carson was very successful with “Silent Spring”, but that was then and folks are no longer in tune with nature.

I hope she does well.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12901
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 18:16:46

Newfie wrote:What concerns me is that Greta’s movement is not really an expression of deep concern being expressed by the crowds. It’s just the cool thing to do for the moment. Greta is a “sparsely” and the crowd will tire of it and move on to the next “sparkly”.

#metoo was like this, it had its moment in the sun and is now wilting.

Rachel Carson was very successful with “Silent Spring”, but that was then and folks are no longer in tune with nature.

I hope she does well.


She needs a little help from someone I know. The Overshoot Predator.

Without external feedbacks putting a spine in her message it will turn out exactly like what you say here.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7313
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby GHung » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 18:25:34

Ibon wrote:
GHung wrote:Joining the "Global Climate Strike" for me means living my life pretty much like every other day.


Important point. But then again this climate strike is not meant for outliers like you. It is the start of bringing personal responsibility into the mainstream. So there is a long long long process here.

Plantagenet wrote:So even if you haven't flown in decades you still have a large carbon footprint just like everyone else in the affluent western world.


This is also an important point. To get where Ghung is or where I am this is on the back of decades of former consumption where we arrived at a still place after being jaded by mainstream culture.
......


Neither of these are quite accurate (especially Plant's projective declarations). Consumerism has never been my thing and, due to a well-developed fine art of constructive laziness, I've never seen the point of being the typical consumer. Consumption is a LOT of work that I would rather avoid and I hate paying bills <==> consumption. Meanwhile, those 'happy' consumers leave a lot of stuff around for guys like me to have fun with or to fix and sell.

But, yes, there was a time when I was part of the great consumption wave because of a lot of forcing, until I got my mind right. It just never made sense to me.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
User avatar
GHung
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue 08 Sep 2009, 15:06:11
Location: Moksha, Nearvana

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 19:47:11

Plantagenet wrote:You've had an unusually large carbon footprint yourself this year, too, what with your purchase of a new car.


Yeah, that EV with the battery pack that supposedly will give me cancer. You rarely write anything intended to do anything but annoy people or demonstrate your cognitive dissonance.

Ibon wrote:there comes a point when you simply can no longer squirm your way around it.......


Unless you're Plant.

Image

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests