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Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 08:44:47

Yoshua wrote:Venezuela's curse is the depletion of high quality resources and being forced to switch to low quality resources.


Define how you perceive "quality". The market does it by offering less money for one oil over another, and the definition of what is higher versus lesser quality also changes over time.

So I sell 100 barrels of high quality oil for $50/bbl and my gross revenue is $5000. Alternatively, I sell 200 barrels of low quality oil for $40/bbl and my gross revenue is $8000.

If the per unit OpX is 20% lower the profit margin is identical as well, as the "quality" issue has already been accounted for the market price differential.

It should be mentioned that none of this is a curse, just the way the market and oil field operates when selling its product.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 08:48:13

Yet the American companies which were producing oil had the technology and the financial means to invest in keeping aging wells in full production. Kicking them out and nationalizing their assets ended any chance of this happening.

Quit trying to make excuses for Marxism. That "system" has killed more people and inflicted more misery than any other. I understand that Capitalism isn't popular with those who think they are "entitled" to a "fair share" of wealth they didn't earn, which is nonsense. You are entitled to what you earn with years and decades of labor, and there are no shortcuts.

If you want the rewards, go earn them.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 12:54:37

Communism and Facism is unfortunately on the rise around the world. As economies go down, they will rise to power. This time they will kill billions of humans.

Democracy will not survive economic collapse. Dictatorship in some form has been the norm during human history.

The falling EROEI from fossil fuel production as the high quality resources are depleted and we are left with low quality resources, will turn nations into Venezuela...and then to Syria and Yemen...and then to something even worse.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 13:52:45

Yoshua wrote:
The falling EROEI from fossil fuel production as the high quality resources are depleted and we are left with low quality resources, will turn nations into Venezuela...and then to Syria and Yemen...and then to something even worse.


You said this before. You are still wrong. At what point in time does your church allow you to think for yourself and actually..you know..LEARN stuff?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 14:20:14

I just had my 3 year anniversary on Peakoil.com

Everything I know about oil I have learned on this site by Adam, rockman, rockdoc and shortonoil.

I hope that you aren't too disappointed by my learning curve.

:)
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 15:33:05

Actually, a little history of Venezuela vis-a-vis, the Western corporate economic order is instructive. Feel free to transfer this exchange to appropriate thread Mods. " The exploitation of Venezuela’s tremendous petroleum resources has been the constant objective of US policy and action toward the South American state for over a century." Yes, Venezuela should have let the oil companies stay because they lacked the expertise to exploit their oil reserves. Other than that based on history of extreme US meddling, can anyone blame them for being wary of interactions with the Western power brokers.


The Venezuelans were so indoctrinated by the Chavez socialism concept, they could not understand that the foreign oil companies that were there were there to make a profit. They firmly believed that every dollar that came out of "their" ground belonged to them. The problem was not socialism vs capitalism, it was the age old problem of a less technologically advanced people running into a more highly technologically advanced society.

It is the same set of events that happened to the American North West Coast Indians, the indigenous tribes of Africa, and when the Romans over ran Gaul. The less technologically advanced people get wiped out. North America, and Europe have been presenting their technology as a gift to the rest of the world for the last three centuries. Not all the world's primitive societies wanted to exchange their way of life for the techno gizmos of the Western world. When they protest too much, we bomb them. "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts".

We are still doing it today! It is no wonder that half of the world is a complete mess. The Chinese have computers that they didn't have 20 years ago, and every African bush bunny is carrying around a cell phone. The societies that have evolved their technologies had three centuries to adapt their cultures to the transition. We have attempted to shove down everyone else's throat the same advancements in 30 years. Technology is a double edged sword; and the back edge is coming around now!
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 15:49:35

The Venezuelans were so indoctrinated by the Chavez socialism concept, they could not understand that the foreign oil companies that were there were there to make a profit. They firmly believed that every dollar that came out of "their" ground belonged to them. The problem was not socialism vs capitalism, it was the age old problem of a less technologically advanced people running into a more highly technologically advanced society.

It is the same set of events that happened to the American North West Coast Indians, the indigenous tribes of Africa, and when the Romans over ran Gaul.


Jesus wept. Why do you continually make this crap up?

The average "Venezuelans" had no say in what happened to the oil fields. And dissent amongst the knowledgeable oil field workers was punished with either jail or they were forced into exile ( I know a number of ex PDVSA geos and engineers who fled to Colombia and Argentina as a consequence). Chavez did what he wanted to do with the idea that it would placate the very poor in the jungle given he could take money from the oil fields and spend it all on social programs (and hence increase his popular support) with no thought whatsoever to reinvesting in the producing fields (which is a requisite to avoid dissaster). And as I pointed out up thread the contracts when foreign companies were still allowed to operate were such that the government take was 91% and the contractor take (foreign oil companies) was 9%. Basically Venezuela was getting just about every "dollar that came out of their ground". How do I know, I was at the first open bid round in the nineties after 25 years of a nationalized industry, I knew a number of people at management level in the companies that won bids and as I mentioned above I also knew a number of PDVSA workers. It was no secret what was going on in Venezuela, Chavez was well hated in Colombia and Argentina which had the most successful oil and gas industries in South America at the time.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 16:23:32

Yoshua wrote:I just had my 3 year anniversary on Peakoil.com

Everything I know about oil I have learned on this site by Adam, rockman, rockdoc and shortonoil.


Obviously this can't be true. You only recite the talking points of the one of those 4 without any experience whatsoever within the industry in question, geology and petroleum engineering specifically, and economics generally.

Alternative, you can prove me wrong by discussing any of the details previously provided proving exactly the statement I just made. You see, that is the one thing zealots can't do, because they have no desire to know, listen to or let alone understand BOTH sides of the issue prior to making an informed judgement.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Yoshua wrote:I hope that you aren't too disappointed by my learning curve.
:)


Depends. Prove where you are on your learning curve.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 16:53:08

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7513

 https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6849
Not seeing the larger point of chronic systemic class warfare and entitlement and concomitant neoliberal policies whuch reach boiling points of intolerance for the poorer classes periodically
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 17:35:04

onlooker wrote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7513

 https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6849
Not seeing the larger point of chronic systemic class warfare and entitlement and concomitant neoliberal policies whuch reach boiling points of intolerance for the poorer classes periodically


Does this mean you agree that Chavez didn't get the Bolavarian Socialist Revolution he wanted..or he did?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 17:47:00

AdamB wrote:
onlooker wrote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7513

 https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6849
Not seeing the larger point of chronic systemic class warfare and entitlement and concomitant neoliberal policies whuch reach boiling points of intolerance for the poorer classes periodically


Does this mean you agree that Chavez didn't get the Bolavarian Socialist Revolution he wanted..or he did?

No, Adam it means Chavez was a symptom to the disease of Capitalism or Greed
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 18:42:03

onlooker wrote:
AdamB wrote:
onlooker wrote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7513

 https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6849
Not seeing the larger point of chronic systemic class warfare and entitlement and concomitant neoliberal policies whuch reach boiling points of intolerance for the poorer classes periodically


Does this mean you agree that Chavez didn't get the Bolavarian Socialist Revolution he wanted..or he did?

No, Adam it means Chavez was a symptom to the disease of Capitalism or Greed


So he was lying to his people when he claimed he gave them a wonderful socialist revolution?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 19:01:09

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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 20:12:06

onlooker wrote:No, he was right
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/8133


Interesting. I didn't see anywhere on that list that for all those fantastic accomplishments( called benefits), that the corresponding costs would be like a million percent inflation, eating of housepets and zoo animals as protein, and Venezuelans becoming Colombians because they really enjoyed the things that list claims?

Heck, the way that list sounds, I might want to move there!! If, of course, I was dumb enough to ignore the COSTS incurred.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 08:20:54

Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0


Peaki Oil is here now!

World Crude Oil Production is at a current level of 82.39M


The 2018 yearly average was 82.88 mb/d.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/world_cr ... production

The world has not added 1 barrel to its production in a year. The oil to GDP relationship broke 7 years ago. The world is now in the uncharted waters of existing asset consumption, and failing monetary systems. If history is any indication they will try to fix it by blowing it up, and burning it down!

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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 14:58:12

AdamB wrote:
onlooker wrote:No, he was right
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/8133


Interesting. I didn't see anywhere on that list that for all those fantastic accomplishments( called benefits), that the corresponding costs would be like a million percent inflation, eating of housepets and zoo animals as protein, and Venezuelans becoming Colombians because they really enjoyed the things that list claims?

Heck, the way that list sounds, I might want to move there!! If, of course, I was dumb enough to ignore the COSTS incurred.

Their oil industry has floundered which is part their incompetence, the quality of their reserves and the vagaries of the oil price. Beyond that economic warfare by the West is instrumental especially for Socialists economies who I will grant do not run as smoothly economically as capitalist countries
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 16:13:36

Beyond that economic warfare by the West is instrumental especially for Socialists economies who I will grant do not run as smoothly economically as capitalist countries


please show us an example of the "economic warfare by the West". The oil industry in Venezuela was completely destroyed well in advance of any trade embargos the US imposed. Venezuela has been a basket case for nigh on a decade now. There have been virtually no US companies with any say in anything down there since 2006.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 18:59:29

shortonoil wrote:
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0


Peaki Oil is here now!


Sure. And a thermodynamic equation told you so. Unlike the other times you claimed the same thing I imagine.

Savinar went off and did something respectable after he became a peak oil laughingstock. You know, an astrologer palm reader. Aim for the stars and try and beat that!
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 08 Jun 2019, 06:00:17

The State of the US Economy. Poverty and America’s “Mega-Rich”. Rigged Markets and the Collapse of the “Real Economy”



https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-state ... my/5679785
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 08 Jun 2019, 10:53:37

Just when you thought Onlooker's appeals to authority couldn't get any worse...

Globalresearch, now that's a source even less trustworthy than zerohedge.

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-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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