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Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 27 May 2019, 10:08:36

shortonoil wrote:The world's petroleum producers have been pumping the planet intensively for 159 years. They have always taken the best of what could be found; what's left is getting pretty crappy. We have now extracted about 40% of all the liquid hydrocarbons on the planet.


We have not. You obviously aren't even aware of the cumulative production or cumulative production plus reserves information matched to in-place estimates for the globe.

Not that you would know how to use it, but you need to get the best information available before you say something contradicted by the data. You do know what data is, don't you? First you get the best data, THEN you do your cherry picking and excluding what you want routine.

Do you have access to ANY of the information necessary to tackle this problem, or did you really just make up crap like this throughout?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 27 May 2019, 11:52:43

The so-called Super-High EROEI WindMill funded by the Windmill Bank, Deutsche Bank, is bankrupt. Its gone from 107 Euros in June 2007 to 6.45 as of today.

Windmills are useless.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Mon 27 May 2019, 12:02:08

Always get a kick out of when Mr. Short or someone else with comparable ignorance spouts some ridiculous stuff.
Spurs me, time permitting, to do some reading up on current developments in the hydrocarbon world.

Easy peasy activity for anyone truly interested in this stuff.

Anywhoo, the buzz surrounding pre salt formations may well prove to be valid.
Terminology now seems to categorize Jurassic reservoirs as the 'next frontier' and that frontier is being exploited right this moment in Da Guf.

Chevron's Anchor project has yet to be greenlighted, but if the 20,000 psi formation proves productive, hold onto your hats.

Along with Shell's Appomattox operation, an entirely new resource - deep, high pressure hydrocarbon reservoirs - may boost production worldwide.

Peak what?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 27 May 2019, 14:37:20

StarvingLion wrote:The so-called Super-High EROEI WindMill funded by the Windmill Bank, Deutsche Bank, is bankrupt. Its gone from 107 Euros in June 2007 to 6.45 as of today.

Windmills are useless.


Sort of like your prior claim that money is useless? Except when you use it for something and it works? Or, in the case of windmills, they provide some 15% of the local grid electricity?

You seem to have really weird ideas about all the useful things that you claim are useless SL.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Wed 29 May 2019, 22:52:59

While we're talking about EROEI, how often have you heard of ESOEI? That's EROEI but also counting the energy cost of the energy storage for a renewable grid. It ain't pretty, which is another reason why I'm a fan of nuclear power.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/c ... y-storage/
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 04:27:42

Chinese diesel demand fell 14 percent in March and 19 percent in April.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/28/falling ... cture.html
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 30 May 2019, 07:55:02

Yoshua wrote:Chinese diesel demand fell 14 percent in March and 19 percent in April.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/28/falling ... cture.html


They have a growth problem they aren't willing to talk about officially.

Good thing it has nothing to do with EROEI either!
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 11:15:31

Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 30 May 2019, 12:16:12

Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Falling EROEI has nothing to do with Venezuela's problems, as even dumbass reporters know. The idea that I need to mention that peak oilers are now intellectually farther down the food chain than that is...mortifying. Remember the days when Happy McPeaksters at least tried to think...even a little...before pretending they could blame some countries ills on nonsense.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Thu 30 May 2019, 15:24:14

The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 31 May 2019, 13:40:27

Yoshua wrote:The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?


Better yet, make up nonsense, blog it maybe, and call yourself an expert and because you wrote it down, it must be true! Sort of like Short and his swill, right Yosh?
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Fri 31 May 2019, 18:46:41

It's not a resource curse it's the curse of the dictator. A landmass can have roughly equitable climate and weather and geography and resources, and yet the different rules imposed from different national governments at the top have radically different economic and social outcomes. Want photographic proof? North Korea and South Korea. What to do about the 'resource curse'? Invade? Have a revolution? Because it turns out to be political after all.
Image
NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Suomi NPP VIIRS data from Miguel Román, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center [Public domain]
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 11:17:14

The resource curse is behind the ill's of Venezuela? How to end this curse? Call in the exorcist?


The curse started when oil fell from $98/ barrel to $28. The fact that Venezuela has been run by a herd of ex taxi cab driving psychopaths didn't help, nor the fact that their oil is mostly road tar quality. The end of the oil age is coming, and the weaker hands will fall out first. Of course being a completely dysfunctional society from day one didn't add to Venezuela's chances of ever using their resources for the benefit of its population.

Better yet, make up nonsense, blog it maybe, and call yourself an expert and because you wrote it down, it must be true! Sort of like Short and his swill, right Yosh?


It sounds like the hogs are swilling up their diner early. You should write everything you know about oil on the back of a postage stamp, and mail it to yourself. You would double your knowledge of the subject.

We will now return to our regularly scheduled program of serial spammers.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 12:11:16

Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Jesus is weeping again. How many times do we have to adjudicate the real reason for Venezuela hitting the skids? It has more to do with ideology than geology.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 14:40:54

asg70 wrote:
Yoshua wrote:Another nation with a growth problem is Venezuela. Venezuela's GDP has contracted by 47 percent since 2015.

Falling EROEI is main reason for Venezuela's economic contraction.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1911 ... ssion=true


Jesus is weeping again. How many times do we have to adjudicate the real reason for Venezuela hitting the skids? It has more to do with ideology than geology.

Yeah as in they believed they had the right to keep all or at least most of the profit from their oil. The US GOV and oil corporations begged to differ
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 16:31:17

Yeah as in they believed they had the right to keep all or at least most of the profit from their oil. The US GOV and oil corporations begged to differ


OK. Apparently you have no idea how oil and gas contracts work. First of all the US Gov does not hold nor did they hold any oil and gas licenses in Venezuela. The only benefit the US Gov would see from oil and gas activities in Venezuela is through income taxes (US tax - Venezuela tax) of companies like EOM who were working there or from refineries which bought oil from Venezuela. The companies themselves fronted all the cash to cover expenditures. Oil firms had to pay a 50% corporate tax, 30% royalty and a 3.33% extraction tax. They also were subject to a windfalls profit tax when Brent exceeded $70/bbl, land rental and a 2% annual contribution to science and education. When it was all said and done the Venezuela government take was 91% leaving 9% for the companies.

So your view that somehow the US Govt and oil corporations were keeping most of the oil profits is basically nonsense.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 17:05:13

Actually, a little history of Venezuela vis-a-vis, the Western corporate economic order is instructive. Feel free to transfer this exchange to appropriate thread Mods. " The exploitation of Venezuela’s tremendous petroleum resources has been the constant objective of US policy and action toward the South American state for over a century." Yes, Venezuela should have let the oil companies stay because they lacked the expertise to exploit their oil reserves. Other than that based on history of extreme US meddling, can anyone blame them for being wary of interactions with the Western power brokers.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14263
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 20:12:09

Funny thing, for as much as they complained about US meddling, the place was running like clockwork, with low unemployment, and plenty of food - even educational opportunities. After the "people's revolution", oil production tanked, there is poverty and corruption everywhere, and widespread famine and lack of basic medical care. All of which they would blame the US for, even though it began when they nationalized the US oil company assets.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 23:25:44

onlooker wrote:can anyone blame them for being wary of interactions with the Western power brokers.


Yep. The oil doesn't make money being left in the ground. They should be grateful there's a market out there willing to pay for it. Venezuela had their chance to show the world they could be good stewards of their own oil infrastructure and they blew it. They only have themselves to blame.

And there really was no excuse for Chavez to warm up to tinpot dictators like Castro and Kim Jong Il. Following that "enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy just made him look like a dangerous idiot and further isolated the country. Statesmanship requires moving beyond old grudges.

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-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 06:58:08

Venezuela's curse is the depletion of high quality resources and being forced to switch to low quality resources.

This has lead to all kinds of political and economic problems.
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