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Peak oil debate

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 17 Apr 2020, 20:06:14

Why would Joe6P switch to an expensive electric car when gasoline is cheaper than bottled water right now?
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 18 Apr 2020, 02:27:18

Tanada wrote:Why would Joe6P switch to an expensive electric car when gasoline is cheaper than bottled water right now?

Joe sixpack, now laid off, is becoming very cynical and is sure gas prices will not stay cheap for anywhere near as long as the payments on a big ICE pickup will. He won't buy anything at all until he is back to work and by then he will have had months to think about his and the countries future.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby REAL Green » Sat 18 Apr 2020, 04:54:05

Tanada wrote:Why would Joe6P switch to an expensive electric car when gasoline is cheaper than bottled water right now?



I live in fly over with the so called deplorables. My nearest town from the farm is also a university town with Missouri S&T in Rolla, MO. This means there is a pocket of educated people among small town and country people in a poorer region. There are electric cars around here but not many. This region also has a lot of nice farms that wealthy people have who live in the larger urban areas of Missouri. Some of these people have renewables and EV's but there is not much. I have 3600-watt system and batteries. I don't have an EV. I would like to get a small one for trips to town to get supplies. I would really like to power it with pannels on the farm but the research I did shows it would require a lot of pannels. A small basic pickup would be great but nothing out there yet. A small farm tractor would be great but nothing out there now to speak of. I am not impressed with EV's and the people who think they are green becuase of them but I do feel for green prepping they have merits. The grid around here is mostly fossil fuel supplied so not much carbon savings going electric. EV are more efficient with energy conversion but the life cycle cost of manufacture and battery conversion loss makes the green nature of EVs much less appealing.

My REAL Green instead says try to reduce driving by localizing instead. Having an EV and driving more becuase you think you are green and can is just more of the Jevons paradox combined with dubious green behavior. In fact, it can be argued most EV people are FAKE greens who have money so they can buy fancy toys. It really is something in between because EV will make society more resilient on the trip down the ladder of decline but only a little. The car culture and excessive consumerism is the real problem. Too many people living with too many things can’t easily be fixed. If you are rich and buy an EV you are just a little bit greener than joe 6pack who has much less money and can’t do as much as the wealthy FAKE Green EV guy with lots of stuff and the ability to travel. It is a way of life that can’t be greened up much so the finger pointing at joe 6 pack is just more righteous derision educated wealthy people have always had for poorer people with less education. I am guilty of it too. Very few people I have encountered both in person and on line are very green. I have been studying this for year now with my realgreenadaptation.blog. I am not optimistic about Green in the modern world so what I talk about is relative green or realistic green with humility for those who can’t manage to be TRUE Green. At least try to do something per your life system is my advice. Mix green with prepping has a lot of merit with life getting riskier as Covid has demonstrated. This virus has demonstrated globalism is unstable so this time period is more than a health scare it is a way of life scare. Green prepping deals with both conditions.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby sparky » Sat 18 Apr 2020, 05:14:02

.
......good post !
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby aspera » Sat 18 Apr 2020, 08:55:18

+10
Oceans rise, empires fall. - Apocalypse Lullaby, Wailin' Jennys.
Plant a garden. Soon.
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Re: Peak oil debate

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 18 Apr 2020, 20:01:00

REAL Green wrote: it can be argued most EV people are FAKE greens who have money so they can buy fancy toys.....the wealthy FAKE Green EV guy ....


Exactly right. +1 GREAT POST.

In fact, when you do the math it turns out that manufacturing an EV releases far more CO2 then manufacturing a comparable ICE car, so the FAKE Green EV guys are aren’t even really Green.....

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