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The oil industry killed Khashoggi

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby Cog » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 16:48:18

One dead Muslim out of thousands who die to violence yearly doesn't register on my care-o-meter. Khasoggi was a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood and paid the price for it.

The Saudis do need some help on their wet work projects. Perhaps the Israelis could help them out on that.
Last edited by Cog on Fri 26 Oct 2018, 16:54:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby Cog » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 16:58:20

pstarr wrote:
Cog wrote:One dead Muslim out of thousands who die to violence yearly doesn't register on my care-o-meter. Khasoggi was a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood and paid the price for it.

That's deplorable and you should be ashamed. Are you a paid troll? Or do you make an #ss of yourself for free?


Who knows really. I wouldn't have wacked Khasoggi that way. Too sloppy.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby Cog » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 17:22:53

Well people in the Middle East wacked each other all the time for a variety of reasons. Turkey has imprisoned hundreds of political dissidents and jounalists. Iran does the same thing. None of which is really related to oil directly. They have been doing so for centuries. Free speech and political disagreements in that region lead to imprisonment if you are lucky, death if you are not.

Not really a US interest as long as the spice flows. We sell them arms, we get oil. It's just business.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 18:53:12

Don't make too much out of a simple power play. Multiple factions are juggling for power among the Al-Saud. They have never played by the rules, never been fair, never been paragons of virtue from anybody's standpoint. When one such faction succeeds in displacing the others at the pinnacle of a black petroleum pyramid, it will definately involve more murder.

We can pretend we care, or not. Nor does it matter which politician from which party postures in Congress, or what they say. Anyways we will continue to buy oil, and the KSA will continue to sell oil.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 19:32:34

Nothing strange here. Whistleblowers in all realms are often murdered. Such is the ruthless world of Capitalism and the State. Profit and power are the motivations
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 19:42:47

And because we still need their oil
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 02:15:43

I will repeat what I said the other day. Thousands of people around the world die because of government orders every week. Because this individual claimed the job title 'journalist' we have been hearing about his death endlessly since it happened, but to my eyes he is no better or worse than any other victim of violence. Hundreds more die because they irritate someone with the power to tell their 'body guards' to 'make the problem disappear' Certainly the government should not send hit squads after individuals who annoy them, but pretending this fellow was special is stretching reality into some kind of bizarre unjustified shape. Powerful people in or out of government are risky to annoy, particularly in countries where rule of law is not the custom.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby GHung » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 09:22:48

Those who risk their lives to dissent and hold power to account are pretty special in my world. Sad that some here want to just dismiss that as if those folks don't matter much. Says more about them than it does about those who stand up to be counted.

Because this individual claimed the job title 'journalist' we have been hearing about his death endlessly since it happened.......


The guy worked as a journalist his entire adult life. You dismiss that why? Because he didn't have a degree as in journalism? Really?

Jamal Khashoggi began his career as a regional manager for Tihama Bookstores from 1983 to 1984.[21] Later he worked as a correspondent for the Saudi Gazette and as an assistant manager for Okaz from 1985 to 1987.[21] He continued his career as a reporter for various daily and weekly Arab newspapers from 1987 to 1990, including Asharq Al-Awsat, Al Majalla and Al Muslimoon.[6][21] Khashoggi became managing editor and acting editor-in-chief of Al Madina in 1991 and his tenure in that position lasted until 1999...

From 1991 to 1999, he was a foreign correspondent in such countries as Afghanistan, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan, and in the Middle East.[6] It is also claimed that he served with both Saudi Arabian Intelligence Agency and possibly the United States in Afghanistan during this period.[23] He then was appointed a deputy editor-in-chief of Arab News, and served in the post from 1999 to 2003....


In case you've forgotten, those who founded this nation annoyed the crap out of King George and Parliament.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 11:15:25

Riyadh dismissed Ankara's calls to extradite 18 Saudis wanted for the murder of Khashoggi. 

"The individuals are Saudi nationals. They're detained in Saudi Arabia, and the investigation is in Saudi Arabia, and they will be prosecuted in Saudi Arabia," Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir told a regional defence forum in Bahrain. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/ ... 42286.html

Well, it looks like they found some people to pin the murder on. How convenient Saudi nationals, so legal proceedings all in KSA. No, independent oversight, nothing leaking to the world community, all hush hush. Yes typical, when dealing with the real power players of the planet, Justice only goes to a certain point up the totem pole
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 12:26:20

I'm just not seeing that. By definition, the oil peak occurs when half the resource is consumed, and half remains. The first half was of course, much easier to extract, the second half will come with greater cost and difficulty, but will still be profitable as prices rise. But recall that this is the largest resource on the planet, and peak happened after a century.

It's fairly certain that the whole Middle East has peaked, and even more clear that the Saudi fields have done so. However they will be pumping for decades to come, barring yet another widespread war. In this case, "widespread" is a conflict on the scale of WW2, as opposed to either of the Gulf Wars. Certainly time enough for two more generations of Arab despots.

So NOPE, no Doom here.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 14:47:51

Of course, what Pete is not telling you is that murder is endemic in Arab culture. Even the word "assassin" was derived in the 11th century from a despised group of "Hashishin" which literally means "hashish eaters". It was the 11th century version of a meth head.

Come to think of it, after pot got legalized, there are probably quite a few potential Hashishin up behind the Redwood Curtain. Hopefully, Pete's not among their number. (No offense intended, buddy.)
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 Oct 2018, 14:49:59

It seemx thatthe intrigue in KSA is multilayered and deep. MBS, in fact is betraying US govt/corporate interests by NOT opening up to privatizing of Saufi assets as he seemed to have promised. Read all about it

The real reasons the knives are out for MBS

https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-real- ... w.facebook
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 28 Oct 2018, 12:20:45

We're not allowed to know what the Saudi's position is in terms of peaking, but one thing is certain, they got totally whacked when America entered into the last recession. They got used to selling oil at such a high price that they built an infrastructure around it. Then oil prices collapsed. Now they have to continue to meet the expectations of that infrastructure. They thought they could do it by selling an interest in Aramco. As it's gone along I think they've realized that won't cut it. They may not be able to over supply and make money in volume like they once could, but that doesn't mean they have peaked. It only means the world has grown beyond that.

They bailed on the IPO because they realized they could bail on it in the face of rising US interest rates. They only had to stall long enough for the initial Trump euphoria to run its course. Then they could rely upon the Fed. Rates had to go up at some point. The rising rates will cut US production. It won't go down right away, but the Saudis can wait it out. When the time comes, they'll reintroduce the concept of selling off an interest in Aramco. In the meantime, with coveted dollars flowing into the country they should be fine, once the pump is actually primed. They won't have soiled the bed because they never slept in it. And it should be a good thing for the offering that it was touted once before and the reception for it was at least lukewarm.

They are not going to share power. They are not going to engage in a democratic experiment. They won't even do it if their safety is guaranteed. So, the largess from oil revenue is their only way of maintaining peace. They're staking a lot on the US not entering into another big recession, but only a controlled one out of which it recovers, then lowering the dollar and re-engaging the rest of the world, and can pay higher oil prices once again. I'm guessing the margins are actually pretty thin. If they get it wrong there probably will be a revolution. But this one wouldn't have anything to do with Iran. It would be an entirely Sunni led revolt. Just think of all of the terrible forces, like ISIS, that the Saudis have unleashed upon others, only now set loose domestically.

Just think of what could happen if the US does fall into a bad recession. The Saudi monarchy could go down. Whatever takes its place probably would still deal with the US, but would most likely harbor ill will toward it. The US could find itself on the outs with the entire region.
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby charmcitysking » Thu 01 Nov 2018, 12:57:25

onlooker wrote:It seemx thatthe intrigue in KSA is multilayered and deep. MBS, in fact is betraying US govt/corporate interests by NOT opening up to privatizing of Saufi assets as he seemed to have promised. Read all about it

The real reasons the knives are out for MBS

https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-real- ... w.facebook


Thanks for that link OL. Really good piece
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 01 Nov 2018, 13:04:00

charmcitysking wrote:
onlooker wrote:It seemx thatthe intrigue in KSA is multilayered and deep. MBS, in fact is betraying US govt/corporate interests by NOT opening up to privatizing of Saufi assets as he seemed to have promised. Read all about it

The real reasons the knives are out for MBS

https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-real- ... w.facebook


Thanks for that link OL. Really good piece

Sorry about the typos :razz:
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 02 Nov 2018, 08:01:00

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... -toxic-mbs
"The youngest brother of Saudi Arabia’s King Salman has returned from self-imposed exile to “challenge” Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) “or find someone who can,” reports the Middle East Eye."
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Re: The oil industry killed Khashoggi

Unread postby Cog » Fri 02 Nov 2018, 09:40:56

onlooker wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-31/crown-princes-uncle-returns-saudi-arabia-oust-toxic-mbs
"The youngest brother of Saudi Arabia’s King Salman has returned from self-imposed exile to “challenge” Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) “or find someone who can,” reports the Middle East Eye."


No where in the article does it say that he had returned to Saudi Arabia. He is in exile in the UK. He has returned to the spotlight of news, but not to Saudi Arabia.

Crown Prince Salman isn't going anywhere, much to the rage and chagrin of those who want him out.
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