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The U.S., energy producing superpower

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 12:12:08

Irony ? I missed it ! Thinking - He's smoking !
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 14:32:29

Y - "I didn't call it a ponzi scheme... the industry did." FYI: there is no industry spokesman. But there are folks who work in the industry (or don't) who express their OPINIONS. For instance: since the SEC is good at catching folks who run Ponzy schemes you should have no trouble naming a few companies so charged, especially since so many operations cratered with the oil price crash.

Or are you just mindlessly repeating what others are saying? Others who also have no specific examples? LOL.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 15:24:51

Chesapeake geologist - Shale wells are not economic.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/n ... p20/a22730
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 16:00:24

ConocoPhillips geologist - The biggest uneconomic field in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/n ... /p2/a23513

My guess is that shale gas would not have been possible to develop without the petrodollar, the QE program and trade deficits, since the US would not have had the energy to develop the shale Ponzi with domestic energy.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 16:38:39

Yoshua wrote:Chesapeake geologist - Shale wells are not economic.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/n ... p20/a22730


For heaven's sake. The memo in your link is from SIX YEARS AGO.

Don't you know that shale drilling is changing and evolving very quickly?

Don't you even know that the economics of shale drilling have changed immensely in the last six years?

SHEESH! Please don't waste our time here by posting out-of-date reports and pretending they are descriptions of the current economics of shale drilling.

Cheers!
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 18:00:13

Yoshua wrote:Chesapeake geologist - Shale wells are not economic.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/n ... p20/a22730


6 years ago, they said something about economics. Certainly nothing that supports your blanket statement, some 6 years later, and even less so when estimates of both # of economic wells and the quantity of resources they are converting to first reserves and then production can be quantified across the entire Appalachian Basin.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 18:04:06

Yoshua wrote:ConocoPhillips geologist - The biggest uneconomic field in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/n ... /p2/a23513

My guess is that shale gas would not have been possible to develop without the petrodollar, the QE program and trade deficits, since the US would not have had the energy to develop the shale Ponzi with domestic energy.


Shale gas began development around 1825, so what in the world are you talking about? The largest known accumulation of national gas on the planet, circa 1929, was Devonian shale gas. Just because you as a neophyte comes along and finds out that shale gas is under development doesn't mean the industry is so limited in their perspective on the development of such things, the history of this development has nothing to do with your natural gas ignorance.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 18:40:37

Do not bring Etp into this thread. You will be Borged


Yes. You will be assimilated; and they will pull all the wires out of your left ear! OHH!

My guess is that shale gas would not have been possible to develop without the petrodollar, the QE program and trade deficits, since the US would not have had the energy to develop the shale Ponzi with domestic energy.


The FED supplied a very important contribution to make that Ponzi scheme possible; about $14 trillion in counterfeit money. Even though it is often assumed that this financial miracle can continue forever such a a simplistic evaluation is ignoring the other half of the process. The currency that the FED prints must have someplace to go to be of any use, and up until now that has been the credit markets. The FED does not control the other half of their money creation process, and credit is not doing well. Commercial real estate is folding, personal bankruptcies are increasing, student loans are rapidly turning into NPL, and most of all corporations are no longer buying back huge blocks of the their own stock. Without an economy that is ever willing to acquire more debt, that it can not pay back, the FED's money printing scheme comes to a halt. Once credit finds itself at the brink of bankruptcy, which it has almost attained with ever growing household, and commercial debt, it stops borrowing, and the FED can not print into a vacuum. The Shale wizards will find that their financing has gone with it, and an industry, that has never turned a profit except by flipping leases to the next greater fool, will get sucked right into that same hole!

An energy super power, constructed on more debt than it can ever repay, is just another super oxymoron!
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 20:54:33

Pisstar
Got anything else?
Custom made drill bits for each well, walking rigs, monobore drilling in the Niobrara and - increasingly - the Permian.
Diversion techniques, both near wellbore and far field which allow WAY more extensive reservoir stimulation under WAY more controlled fracturing.
Microproppants doubling - according to the CEO of Core Labs ... you ARE familiar with Core, amirite? - the volume amount of reservoir stimulation.
Routinely drilling a mile a day, record is over 7,200 feet by Antero.
Drilling 19,300 foot lateral - longest onshore - in 17 days, one trip.
Software drilling controls allowing no more than 2 foot vertical/horizontal deviance over 20,000 foot TMD wells.
3D Microseismic pinpointing precisely where to both put the drill bit and place the perf clusters.

Or course, this is but a fraction of the innovations employed these past six years.
Your display of stunning ignorance may only be exceeded by your arrogance.

Good job, Pisstar, your fellow acolytes are rapidly sinking beneath the waves of reality and, hopefully, will leave nary a trace.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 21:48:42

pstarr wrote:"Shale gas began development around 1825 . . . "
Adam you have finally and completely lost it. And I mean it. Every bit of it. [smilie=confused2.gif] [smilie=eusa_boohoo.gif] lol

Cheers :) 8)


It was drilled by William Hart. Upper Devonian shale. If your ignorance were a chain around your neck, sized to match what you don't know, it would drown you in your bathtub.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 23:24:42

FYI - The first commercial NG in the US ward the New Albany Shale. Street lights in Kentucky burned NAS production in the 1800's. From

https://www.onepetro.org/journal-paper/SPE-8924-PA

"production of gas from Devonian black shales began in 1821 with the drilling of a well near Fredonia, N.Y. In the ensuing 161 years, production from Devonian shales has extended into eastern Kentucky, southern and western West Virginia, and scattered areas of Pennsylvania, Ohio. New York, western Kentucky, and Indiana. Currently, about 9,600 wells produce gas from shale in the Appalachian basin. One giant gas field. the Big Sandy field in eastern Kentucky, has produced more than 2 Tcf of gas from Devonian shale."
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 02:33:47

Resistance is futile !

I love oil people. They just won't give up, even if the odds are against them. They have decided to make America into an energy super power and so shall it be.

They are falling down from a skyscraper and repeating to them selves on their way down: So far, so good.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Yoshua » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 03:07:13

It looks like debt creation has stopped. The mess is bigger now. There is a lot of bad debt out there. Bankruptcies and defaults are on the rise. Not sure how they will fix this one ?

The oil price is falling and the economy is falling into a new recession.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 06:47:29

Y - "They have decided to make America into an energy super power". Make??? You must mean MADE. Starting at least as early as early as the 1930's. Many historians credit the discovery of the giant East Texas oil field with significantly aiding the allied victory in WWII. The US was THE oil super power until the early 70's since we were THE global oil exporter until then. Actually it was Texas which also stabilized oil prices by being the only truly effective "oil cartel" in history.

Of course coal was much bigger at one time: Coal became the largest source of energy in the 1880s, when it overtook wood, and remained the largest source until the early 1950s, when coal was exceeded by petroleum. Coal provided more than 50% of the nation's energy from the 1880s to the 1940s, and from 1906 to 1920 provided more than 75% of US energy. The US today is still one of the largest coal producers/exporters on the planet.

Decided to make America into an energy super power??? No, we made the US an "energy super power" a very long time ago. Which is fortunate since the US became a super power consumer during WWII and has held that title ever since.

You're welcome BTW. LOL.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Revi » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 06:58:18

We are getting close to our all time peak of 10 million barrels per day with all of our innovation and fracking. It's awesome, and we are going to be the biggest oil producer on the planet again! The problem is that we use 20 million barrels per day. We have been on a spending spree since they shot the movie Giant with James Dean. We just don't know it. We have over 20 trillion of debt, and people say we don't need to pay it, but some of the entities we borrow from are government pensions, social security and of course, China.

We have been living a lifestyle we can't afford for so long we have no idea we are living it. Our whole generation has grown up with the idea that driving around aimlessly and living 50 miles from a job is normal.

China uses the same amount of energy we do for driving (11 million barrels a day) for everything, and they export lots of stuff to the rest of the world.

Image
Last edited by Revi on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 07:11:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 07:10:39

Y - "Bankruptcies and defaults are on the rise. Not sure how they will fix this one ?" There's nothing to "fix" per se. Bankruptcies and defaults have always happened. This round is hitting just one sector...petroleum. Which is actually beneficial to the economy in the short run: lower petroleum prices are good for the general public. The US developed a lot of oil reserves it wouldn't have if oil prices had stayed low and those hundreds of $billions had not been borrowed and spent drilling.

Those bankruptcies and defaults don't represent big piles of money being burned. They are a huge wealth transfer. Some folks complain about the wealth disparity in the US. This dynamic has helped adjust that some: new oil reserves were developed (some uneconomic with borrowed monies that won't be repaid) and the consumers got a lot of relief from $100+/bbl oil prices.

There's always losers AND WINNERS in every commodity dynamic. Yes: many affluent companies lost money and the consumers, including the poorest citizens, are today benefiting from that huge wealth transfer. IOW it ain't all bad. LOL.
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 08:10:10

Yoshua wrote:Resistance is futile !

I love oil people. They just won't give up, even if the odds are against them. They have decided to make America into an energy super power and so shall it be.


The chart showing the US as an energy super power is the first post in this thread. And it isn't "so shall it be" from anyone who can read said chart, it is "been there, done that, now how much better than the rest of the world can we do".

EIA data, government analysts, you don't even need oil people this one is so obvious.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Revi » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 08:11:36

Here is a chart of where we are at from the EIA:

Image
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 08:20:36

Not sure how they will fix this one ?


They won't! To fix it would require a huge amount of energy that is just not available. This entire civilization was constructed around a commodity that could deliver huge amounts of energy to its economy. That is no longer the case. Depletion is resulting in an ever increasing amount of energy needed to produce petroleum; there is now very little remaining after its production to power the balance of that economy. Consequently its economy will contract, its monetary system will fail from lack of growth, and it will consume the assets it has accumulated over oil's 100 year productive duration. The global industrial system will perish, and something new will replace it. If it will be something that creates a better world, or a worse one will be for us to decide; but the time remaining for decision making grows ever shorter!

http://www.thehillsgroup.org/
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Re: The U.S., energy producing superpower

Unread postby Revi » Mon 12 Jun 2017, 08:47:03

This whole system is running on debt. Debt worked when there was an increasing supply of stuff, but without growth in the energy supply it is just borrowing from a future that doesn't exist...
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