Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 04 May 2018, 05:12:21

"greatly reducing eating beef would help a lot"

I agree.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 07 May 2018, 06:47:27

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/m ... al-welfare

if all Americans substituted beans for beef, the country would be close to meeting the greenhouse gas goals
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 07 May 2018, 06:50:18

dohboi wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/07/true-cost-of-eating-meat-environment-health-animal-welfare

if all Americans substituted beans for beef, the country would be close to meeting the greenhouse gas goals


Did they account for all the methane that will be produced from all those farts?
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Mon 07 May 2018, 12:51:37

I don't have any greenhouse goals and neither does the USA.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12426
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 07 May 2018, 14:31:31

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are killin' me!

No, really. You. Are. Killing. Me. (And everything else on the planet :twisted: )
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Mon 14 May 2018, 22:43:38

https://medium.com/@drewfrench/grass-fed-beef-the-most-vegan-item-in-the-supermarket-8c46b45a0d47

If the primary goal of veganism is to reduce suffering, then many of us are vegan, and a diet composed of primarily grass-fed beef and dairy, as well as free-range chicken eggs and perennial plants products, is the most vegan diet that I can think of. I diet based on grass that is never tilled or disturbed allows nature to grow and flourish without our annual agricultural blades, machines, and chemicals.
Yonnipun
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat 07 Apr 2018, 03:29:19

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 14 May 2018, 23:32:00

Ah, more of the usual bs. Sorry, not buying it.

In any case, this thread is not about reducing the suffering of specific individual animals (or plants,if that's a thing), but of the systemic threat that meat eating poses to the planet.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Tue 15 May 2018, 01:11:05

dohboi wrote:Ah, more of the usual bs. Sorry, not buying it.

In any case, this thread is not about reducing the suffering of specific individual animals (or plants,if that's a thing), but of the systemic threat that meat eating poses to the planet.



A diet based on grass that is never tilled or disturbed allows nature to grow and flourish without our annual agricultural blades, machines, and chemicals.
Yonnipun
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat 07 Apr 2018, 03:29:19

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 30 May 2018, 03:56:47

(Is anyone else having trouble getting on this site recently?)

Yes, Y. If you live on a diet based on 'grass' that is grains and those grains are grown through no-till ag, you are indeed living a low impact life wrt diet at least, and especially if the food is mostly local.

Meanwhile, at the systemic level, the meat industry is actively impeding GW efforts:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... mate-goals

Meat and fish multinationals...world’s largest protein producers failing to measure or report emissions, despite accounting for 14.5% of greenhouse gases


Three out of four (72%) of the world’s biggest meat and fish companies provided little or no evidence to show that they were measuring or reporting their emissions, despite the fact that, as the report points out, livestock production represents 14.5% of all greenhouse gas emissions.

“It is clear that the meat and dairy industries have remained out of public scrutiny in terms of their significant climate impact. For this to change, these companies must be held accountable for the emissions and they must have credible, independently verifiable emissions reductions strategy,” said Shefali Sharma, director of the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy European office.


(Hey, I just noticed that quote is by Shefali, someone I have met and has been to my house!)
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 May 2018, 05:40:00

So if we all quit eating meat then we can afford another billion folks! What a great idea.

Dohboi, if you want to get me behind your program you have to demonstrate how your proposals will make some overall benefit.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12553
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 30 May 2018, 08:58:39

Good point, Newfie.

Dohboi, decide once and for all if you actually believe that human overshoot is THE PROBLEM. I have no doubt of it, none at all. GHG emissions, petroleum consumption, environmental degradation, renewable energy supplies, etc. etc. - NONE of the things we discuss extensively here would even constitue a problem - let alone an intractable problem, if the Earth were simply occupied by a sustainable number of humans. Those other problems and every other one you care to name, are the symptoms of human overshoot.

I have talked about the general goals of the engineering profession before. Essentially that would be to make more goods and energy while consuming less resources. The goals of the medical profession are to overcome diseases, to overcome human infertility and increase the birth rate, and to enhance human nutrition, all in the interests of producing more people that in turn live longer, healthier lives. The goals of organizations such as the United Nations, NATO, the WHO, and various organizations promoting cultural exchange is to allow more people on the face of the planet without having them slaughtering one another in wars.

Doubtless you have opinions about all of these things. I doubt that your opinions resemble mine a great deal, in fact I am now pointing out the contradictory nature of your expressed opinions. If all of the world's population lived and ate and consumed energy as do Americans, the World population would be between one and two billion humans, and not the 7.6 billion it actually is. In fact, all of the various things that you have claimed are "killing the planet" are also effectively limiting the human population, which is a GOOD THING.

I would say that if you could bring about the cessation of all the things that you have identified as problems, if you could successfully persuade the entire human population to consume only a proportionate share of resources, that somewhere between 10 and 30 billion humans would exist on this planet, and all would be dying from too little food, too little energy, and too little of everything needed to live.

In other words, you are promoting the continued destruction of the planet, and the end of all things. It makes more sense to me to promote the lifestyles of the developed nations, the cities, the suburbs, the eating of meat, the generation of more GHGs, the conflict and slaughter of different cultures/religions/nations. Because those destructive things limit the numbers of humans before the planet is completely and irretrievably broken by their presence, and natural population constraints are causing the death rate to equal the reproduction rate.

Here is where you have to overcome your academic background and consider that we are merely apes, behaving as apes behave, on the planet of the apes. Once you have accepted the true nature of humans, perhaps this can be avoided:
Image
...because whether you consciously realize it or not, you are promoting the further overshoot of the human population, when you advocate the things that you do and have consistently done. Your world views are bedded in the traditional academic beliefs of "devinely inspired" humanity, you are denying the lessons of Anthropology, which in effect is saying that we are apes, behaving as apes behave.

You academic types need to get your "house in order", and to integrate the new scientific discoveries of the nature of humans, now more than a half century old, into your views of the world. It is after all, not the place that your human prejudices would have it be.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 30 May 2018, 10:03:34

Newf, you post had no relevance to what was just posted nor to the title of the thread, so I'm not sure how to respond.

If you accept that AGW is a real and present threat, then you should be concerned not just about direct CO2 emissions from burning fossil-death-fuels, but also from the ways that the meat industry greatly exacerbates the problem.

If you (or anyone) don't accept the reality of AGW, I don't really have much to say to you.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 30 May 2018, 10:34:03

Consider my prior message, and answer the question. If the AGW theory is correct, then the climate changes that result from a civilization that spews GHG's willy-nilly into the atmoshere is a good thing that constrains human reproduction within natural bounds.

I do not doubt that you and others believe that the theory of AGW is correct. We know each other's positions on that, no need to have further discussions. Now I ask that you address the fundamental contradiction: the conservation of the natural resources of this planet and the promotion of human lifestyle changes to lessen the impact of humans on the environment, are contradictory goals.

In 2013 when I joined discussions here at Peak Oil, I told you the same exact thing. The interests of humanity and the continued health of our planet's ecosystem are opposed goals. For them to actually coincide, we would have to overcome our ape natures and behave as intelligent and thoughtful conservators of the environment.

Until that fundamental change in human nature occurs - which would involve the education of 7+ billion humans who don't even ever THINK of such things as they struggle to survive in the world that exists, your beliefs doom our planet.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 30 May 2018, 14:01:15

Dohboi
My answer is related to the theas title. Just because you named a thread title does not make the premis a fact.

People are killing the planet, especially people who want to blame everyone else and not recognize the primary driver, over population.

Humans are omnivours. Eating meat is part of our natural diet. If our population was in balance with the resource base this would not be an issue.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12553
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 30 May 2018, 14:09:29

If we all ate beans and rice and tofu and whole grains and bugs and brewer's yeast we could pack in easily 14 billion on the planet.

Imagine 14 billion humans sucking down rice and beans with a sprinkle of beetles.

I think oral sex would become dangerous......
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Wed 30 May 2018, 15:26:19

I'm thinking it will take more than a little gas to keep people away from oral sex. People do occasionally fart during orgasm. Not that I have ever done that myself. ;)
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12426
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 30 May 2018, 16:26:50

Gentlemen, no need to further twist the screwdriver. I have asked dohboi to consider and to answer my questions about his inconsistent positions on two issues. I am content that he takes a few hours, even a couple of days, to make a thoughtful and considered response.

dohboi, you need to get back to basics. You must either consider the true nature of man the primate, with all that means, or you must hide within the delusional construct of the classic academic world, and deny that mankind is an ape.

I certainly know people who have firmly chosen both of these positions. My Mother, for example, cried when in my early teen years I told her that I did not believe that the Bible was the literal word of God, and that I believed in the story of evolution, after she caught me reading the National Geographic article about the Homo Habilis fossils found by the Leakeys in Olduvai Gorge. That was more than 50 years ago.

I know that most academics are not religious. However that does not mean that they do not share the same basic view of divinely inspired humanity. But it has been SEVEN DECADES since the modern science of Anthropology was built upon the work of Darwin, and 93 years since the infamous "Scopes Monkey Trial". Surely that's time enough to incorporate the true nature of man the primate into the classical view of humanity.
Image
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 31 May 2018, 08:37:08

I see KJ and other consider themselves so wise that they have absolute knowledge of the 'the true nature of man.'

I claim no such omniscience...I just follow the numbers, which you all seem incapable of accepting for some reason :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18201
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 31 May 2018, 11:52:04

dohboi, you really are a disappointment as an intellectual. The rest of us have a belief in and a respect for Science. Even when that Science challenges dearly held beliefs and preconceptions.

This is your thread, and what you said was "Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet". Now we are asking you to justify that assertion. It has already been pointed out to you that man - and all other primates for that matter - are omnivores. We possess canine teeth which are designed for biting and ripping the flesh of animal prey. We have developed long legs to pursue prey, and an upright stance to see prey in the distance, plus an intelligence that allows us to observe prey animals, learn from each frustrated hunt, and improve upon the number of prey animals killed.

You said: "Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet". I'll add to that:

Granola-munchers are killing the planet.
Vegans are killing the planet.
Vegetarians are killing the planet.
Yogurt eaters are killing the planet.
Fish eaters are killing the planet.
.
.
.
.
...I could go on and on, and name every food group and individual item including grasshoppers on a stick, lemon grass tea, tuna in a can, beans and squash, every damned thing that you or me or even the Vietnamese consider edible, and we'd be equally correct in every case, because what is really killing the planet is the overshoot population of humans.

We pointed out to you that no menu has any more merit than any other. It does not matter whether a human eats vegetables, domestic animals, insects, or endangered songbirds. The problem is that we eat all of those things and reproduce essentially without limits.

Your position that eating meat is somehow worse than eating veggies, beans, and other items of food is not only unsupported by facts, but we have pointed out to you that once you have accepted the obvious conclusion that humans are in overshoot, the ideal behavior - FOR THE PLANET - is whatever reduces the human overshoot, and the more unsustainable, the better. That would be because unsustainable behaviors limit the overshoot population of humans.

In fact, I would put it too you that anybody who advocates anything reducing the number of humans is benefitting a planet deeply into human overshoot. If you really and truly believe that avoiding meat has health benefits, then you should be advocating the eating of meat for the good of the planet.

In fact there is no single thing that I could point to that is more harmful to Planet Earth than a committed liberal with his liberal ideals.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 31 May 2018, 14:06:24

KJ, don’t fall ever the eyes, forward facing for prey, predator eyes. And our running ability, humans are the long distance runner champs, for running down prey, predator legs and lungs. And the prey is not likely spinach.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12553
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests