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eco-footprint mitigation

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Mar 2019, 13:40:17

Globalization and internet was a powerful force homogenizing the planets inhabitants into a single monoculture of consumers.

The forced compliance in adapting to constraints will actually act as an apposing force in many countries to this assimilation and homogenization of culture that we have seen with globalization.

We are feeling the initial strain.

Think of this on the macro scale, these past couple of decades of cultural homogenization and globlization and the rise of global consumer culture. The emergence of powerful multi national corporations, the power of the global banking industry, consolidations like the forming of the EU to better manage this homogenization.

I would say we have passed Peak Homogenization and the specific events that are pulling in the other direction are beginning to reveal themselves. Brexit, Immigration, even the election of Trump has components that feed into this, rising nationalism, re emergence of racism that was only in recessive remission but has bloomed like a Herpes Cold Sore on the genitals of white nationalists who fear the fecundity of brown immigrants.

Forces bind and forces pull apart in big sweeping movements through time.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 28 Mar 2019, 14:16:59

Tell that to the White Nationalist in China, Indonesia, and Vietnam.

We may have taught them but they were willing and adept students.

It ain’t a out being white, black, or rainbow; it’s about being human. Especially if you believe all human races difference is only skin deep.

Ever read Guns, Germs and Steel? It’s a great case why the “white race” is not superior, just lucky. It works both ways, we are not to blame, we just got lucky, anyone else would have done the same thing. Any other argument is racist.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 28 Mar 2019, 18:59:57

Newfie wrote:Tell that to the White Nationalist in China, Indonesia, and Vietnam.

We may have taught them but they were willing and adept students.

It ain’t a out being white, black, or rainbow; it’s about being human. Especially if you believe all human races difference is only skin deep.

Ever read Guns, Germs and Steel? It’s a great case why the “white race” is not superior, just lucky. It works both ways, we are not to blame, we just got lucky, anyone else would have done the same thing. Any other argument is racist.


No one is singling out whites Newfie. They just have a habit of singling themselves out as not being racist (especially those most racist) and it is impossible to understand the macro movement away from homogenization and toward the splintering we see starting around the globe without recognizing this.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby diemos » Thu 28 Mar 2019, 20:54:01

Humans are tribal.

When times are good and everyone's belly is full it's easy to tolerate the funny foreigners. But as soon as the resources run out people will divide up along tribal lines and fight each other for the resources that remain.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 07:09:38

re emergence of racism that was only in recessive remission but has bloomed like a Herpes Cold Sore on the genitals of white nationalists who fear the fecundity of brown immigrants.


Ibon,
Hard to not read that as blaming whites.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Cog » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 07:25:12

Its not about their skin color, its how they end up voting. First generation Hispanics vote overwhelmingly for more government and more socialism. I.E. for Democrats. Why do you think the Democrats want open borders and massive amnesty for illegals? Its not because they are conservatives who respect the Constitution.

Class. Please raise your hands if you think Democrats would want open borders and amnesty if the new immigrants voted overwhelmingly for Republicans.

What the leaders of the Democratic Socialists want is a dependable permanent underclass of voters. They seek to duplicate what is the prevalent model in south and central America. That being an elite that controls all the wealth and the poor who pretty much can vote only vote for socialist candidate A or socialist candidate B. That is the plan underway right now and its somewhat working for them.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 08:06:01

Newfie wrote:
re emergence of racism that was only in recessive remission but has bloomed like a Herpes Cold Sore on the genitals of white nationalists who fear the fecundity of brown immigrants.


Ibon,
Hard to not read that as blaming whites.


We have had quite a few eastern Europeans and Russians here, mostly entomologists. It is refreshing to listen to most of these visitors when they speak about race. They are unashamed of their view of Africans as being inferior for example and they will casually mention this in dinner conversation without any sense of political incorrectness. This is one of reasons Trump is enamored of this corner of the world.

Chinese as a monolithic culture do exactly the same and they treat their ethnic peoples with the same racial disdain. Japanese do the same in their attempts at keeping their culture pure.

So yes there is no need to single out Caucasians.

The frustration for white nationalists in the US is that they can only dream with envy some of their eastern European and Russian counterparts who live in fairly racially and culturally pure enclaves which allows them to express racial opinions without any of the political correctness. One of the big problems Germany faced when integrating Eastern Germany was dealing with these strong racist and nationalist sentiments. The same problem the EU has faced with the inclusion of Eastern European members.

So we have this macro trend now of splintering, away from the homogenization of globalization. Racist and nationalist sentiments are becoming culturally acceptable. Again, let's be frank about the door Trump busted open empowering white racist nationalists. But the US is made up of immigrants of many races and ethnic origins so this resurgence of racism is challenging especially when you have so many cultural and racial hybrids. It's funny, even these mixed race individuals and urban tribal alliances of rich diversity ends up also displaying racial sentiments. If you are urban and your tribal alliance is diversity then you tend to look at rural white enclaves in America as culturally inbred and inferior.

It's really hard for white Americans to look forward to any kind of a future where then can achieve racial purity in spite of the current macro trend of making such sentiments culturally acceptable.

I don't know frankly how they will manage going forward.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 08:20:17

Ibon wrote:Racist and nationalist sentiments are becoming culturally acceptable.


That's not exactly what I see.

It's not that attitudes have loosened but rather that attitudes have tightened. People have to walk a tightrope in their public discourse to avoid getting an epithet hurled at them. It's sort of the inverse of the red-scare days except instead of being called a "pinko" if you are slightly left of center, you're called a "nazi" if you are slightly right of center.

The left have weaponized shame as a way to wield power and the net effect is to push back, and Trump benefits from that, even though he probably really DOES deserve all the shame.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Cog » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 09:08:51

Democrats love playing identity politics. By framing all white people as inherently racist, they can de-legitimize their point of view entirely or reframe the argument to suit themselves.

Try to control immigration=racist
Build a wall=racist
Deport an illegal=racist
ID to vote=racist

Its an intellectually lazy way to debate policy. Just call someone racist. Its easy and require no thought.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 11:38:15

Since thread is about Eco-footprint, it bears noting, that whether you are white or not, racist or not, liberal or conservative, we all once we live in this country are having a similar high impact on the Earth. So, we should keep this in mind going forward as the Overshoot Predator will not make any distinctions like these either. Remember the Black Plague afflicted the high and low fairly equally. Tanada may come to correct me, but that is what I heard.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 13:22:19

Onlooker.

Exactly. Which is eh I think that race does not deserve a seat within this discussion.

I understand racism is an issue. I am organized around by 5 BIG issues ( AGE, resource depletion, global financial, resistant bugs, over pop). None of them are within themselves a social issue. Discussing them does not involve race. Fixing any one of them will effect the others and will also improve social justice matters.

But we loose focus on the core issues and derail into name calling.

Eco mitigation knows no color or political identity.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 18:57:38

Newfie wrote:Onlooker.

Exactly. Which is eh I think that race does not deserve a seat within this discussion.

I understand racism is an issue. I am organized around by 5 BIG issues ( AGE, resource depletion, global financial, resistant bugs, over pop). None of them are within themselves a social issue. Discussing them does not involve race. Fixing any one of them will effect the others and will also improve social justice matters.

But we loose focus on the core issues and derail into name calling.

Eco mitigation knows no color or political identity.


As I recently mentioned I am less convinced about consequences outside human agency being the actual catalyst toward forced compliance. I am slowly more and more convinced that human stupidity and depravity will represent an increasingly important agency in disrupting the status quo.

Years and years ago Montequest argued that the demographic shift of more education and wealth that causes declines in birth rates will eventually lose their effect as economic decline will no longer provide the masses with the required education to be part of that demographic shift. What we didn't consider back then say around 2006 when we discussed this was the incredible power of the internet to make people stupid and tribal.

We are degrading into decadence faster than we are enlightening ourselves.

This makes topics like racism and nationalism and the vulnerability of under educated people following demagogues who promote xenophobia and hatred actually a very very important agent in humans moving through the bottleneck of overshoot. Very relevant.

To not end this post on such a dreary note the darkness of such depravity is also what will define the light of what can come out of this in terms of genuine enlightenment.

We don't get to any enlightened place before we plunge head first deep into depravity and decadence. Prepare yourselves mentally for this. If you are a humanist and cherish the best altruistic traits of humans then position yourself outside the mainstream moving this direction.

Otherwise follow Cog's advice and load up.
Last edited by Ibon on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:09:54

Maybe best to do both.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:13:22

Ibon, no doubt human agency will always play a role. But, in the background the intractable LTG issues are what will define the challenges and how fast they cause collapse scenarios. We will just be reacting in a better or worse way to them or if you prefer in more or less selfish/altruistic manner
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:25:26

onlooker wrote:Ibon, no doubt human agency will always play a role. But, in the background the intractable LTG issues are what will define the challenges and how fast they cause collapse scenarios. We will just be reacting in a better or worse way to them or if you prefer in more or less selfish/altruistic manner


The external consequences yes they are coming. The impact in terms of human suffering however as an agency is secondary to how humans themselves pull together or rip themselves apart as a response. How depraved or how enlightened has a tremendous impact on how these external consequences impact humanity.

After all the damage we have inflicted on other life forms there is no way we are going to suddenly become enlightened without first inflicting the same harm and damage on ourselves. The hubris that was directed externally will be directed internally toward each other. This will be a huge force in embedding the foundation of a possible new spiritual renaissance. We don't get there without fucking ourselves over first...... like royally.

Yes, the hubris that was directed externally will be directed internally toward each other. This remains our modus operandi moving forward for the foreseeable future. There are the rare few that can stand outside this mainstream.

Are you one of them?
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:46:13

As despicable as I found the racism of some of our Russian entomologists I mentioned that it was refreshing. Because they were genuinely so unconflicted about holding this position. Racist but clean in their racism if such a thing can be possible. Think about this under the lens of human overshoot.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 30 Mar 2019, 02:57:54

Ibon, in your posts above, you used the pronoun "we" repeatedly. In fact, there is no "we", unless you were speaking of a mouse in your shirt pocket. Each and every individual among 7.7B humans has a unique take on our problems, and a unique definition of "we", including themselves and colored by personal wants and desires.

However desperately you may wish it were not so, this will remain true, and every proposed solution to any aspect of our collective problems will either support all of the definitions of "we", or fail.

The "success" that "we" enjoyed is all in the past, the realization of how completely "we" are screwed by our own "natures" is in the present, and everything that "we" can reasonably expect out of the future is very aptly described as some form of failure.

Heck, I'll bet you didn't even know that "aptly" was a word. I was SO RIGHT playing Scrabble last night.
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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 30 Mar 2019, 07:26:31

KaiserJeep wrote: Each and every individual among 7.7B humans has a unique take on our problems, and a unique definition of "we", including themselves and colored by personal wants and desires..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISozOEnEs8c


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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Pops » Sat 30 Mar 2019, 11:25:54

Free, effective, modern contraception is the only thing that can save us from overpopulation, degradation, LTG, etc. It is indicative of the old male demographic here that we talk of the need to "educate" the womens so they don't ruin our world with unwanted babies. MQ was a prime example, and yes I told him so.

And yes this too is a partisan thing, because it riles up both sides to the advantage of politicians. It's right up there with air & water quality, energy efficiency, co2 emissions and all those other "wedge" issues that a majority want but the ownership doesn't. In this case it isn't profits, it is pure politics, Rs fight tooth and nail against even contraception because it motivates "the base." Meanwhile 2/3 of the population doesn't want Roe overturned. .

One of the USs most divisive tactics since the 70s has been abortion, and though all the draconian 'trans-vaginal ultrasound' laws certainly have had some effect, especially on poor women who can't fly off to Paris for a "vacation," the thing that drove abortions to the lowest rate ever is that women don't need them, because they don't get pregnant, because they have control.

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https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2003/10/ ... -worldwide

Wealth and "education" are small factors. Another example of backward looking misogyny cum "religious" dogma masquerading as enlightened thought, but simply an excuse to blame women for not keeping their knees together.

Free distribution of effective birth control and limiting corporate greed and power to pollute is the only thing that will save us. All the hobby-conservation and virtue-signaling of the wealthy won't do squat in the face of a politics operated for the benefit of a vanishingly few owners.

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Re: eco-footprint mitigation

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 30 Mar 2019, 11:38:22

Maybe this is one of those unintended benefits of the internet......

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/573949/

But despite all this, American teenagers and young adults are having less sex.

To the relief of many parents, educators, and clergy members who care about the health and well-being of young people, teens are launching their sex lives later. From 1991 to 2017, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Youth Risk Behavior Survey finds, the percentage of high-school students who’d had intercourse dropped from 54 to 40 percent. In other words, in the space of a generation, sex has gone from something most high-school students have experienced to something most haven’t. (And no, they aren’t having oral sex instead—that rate hasn’t changed much.)

Meanwhile, the U.S. teen pregnancy rate has plummeted to a third of its modern high. When this decline started, in the 1990s, it was widely and rightly embraced. But now some observers are beginning to wonder whether an unambiguously good thing might have roots in less salubrious developments. Signs are gathering that the delay in teen sex may have been the first indication of a broader withdrawal from physical intimacy that extends well into adulthood.

Over the past few years, Jean M. Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, has published research exploring how and why Americans’ sex lives may be ebbing. In a series of journal articles and in her latest book, iGen, she notes that today’s young adults are on track to have fewer sex partners than members of the two preceding generations. People now in their early 20s are two and a half times as likely to be abstinent as Gen Xers were at that age; 15 percent report having had no sex since they reached adulthood.
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