Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yonnipun » Fri 10 May 2019, 07:05:09

asg70 wrote:
onlooker wrote:As though grammar and spelling were a huge indicator of Intelligence.


They are. Remember GW Bush and his continued use of "nukyooler"? how about Trump and his covfefe and "bigly"? If you can't see a connection between how you write and how smart you are then you're really, um, not that smart.


Double digit almost retarded Iq speaking here. In my native language I am very good at spelling and grammar. But my math and spatial abilities are like I said almost retarded. I also think that some very intelligent men are deliberately toning their intelligence down to appeal to masses.
Yonnipun
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat 07 Apr 2018, 03:29:19

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 10 May 2019, 09:09:37

asg70 wrote:
onlooker wrote:As though grammar and spelling were a huge indicator of Intelligence.


They are. Remember GW Bush and his continued use of "nukyooler"? how about Trump and his covfefe and "bigly"? If you can't see a connection between how you write and how smart you are then you're really, um, not that smart.


By those standards anyone who speaks with an accent or uses different word choices than you choose to use would be defined as suffering from a lower IQ than yourself. I find that a very self serving definition.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15350
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 10 May 2019, 10:27:30

StarvingLion wrote:The Northern Ghwar Status Indicator, Boeing Stock, is totally collapsing. Imports from KSA have reached all time lows.

Concorde: Broke
Space Shuttle: Broke
Boeing: Going Broke

Conclusion: Grow feathers...be a Birdman.


And money isn't worth anything...right Starving? Amazing that when I gave the folks at the convenience store 2 $1 bills yesterday they gave me that candy bar I wanted!
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 10 May 2019, 10:30:55

onlooker wrote:
asg70 wrote:
rockdoc123 wrote:I'll bet Forest Gump knew how to spell "lose" though. :roll:


Yep.

Seems like anytime someone here tries to tell another poster he's dumb, he commits a stupid grammatical or spelling error in the process. Every...single...time.

As though grammar and spelling were a huge indicator of Intelligence. :razz:


Why should it be for communicating via writing when not knowing anything about geology, economics or oil field practice isn't required for folks to proclaim peak oil doom? Over..and over...and over again?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 10 May 2019, 10:33:09

coffeeguyzz wrote:Whatever the future brings, I believe the concerns surrounding oil scarcity will prove to be grossly unfounded.


Zealots are not to be deterred by facts coffee. They sing in the choir, read from the book given them and hum the mantra to keep history, facts and science at bay. What good is a true believer that learns to think for themselves?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Tue 14 May 2019, 10:49:58

Non Opec's Free Cash Flow vs. CapEx

Non OPEC is EROEI negative?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6h8d5oX4AE ... name=small
Yoshua
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat 28 May 2016, 05:45:42

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 14 May 2019, 11:16:21

Yoshua wrote:Non Opec's Free Cash Flow vs. CapEx

Non OPEC is EROEI negative?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6h8d5oX4AE ... name=small


The chart said nothing about EROEI. And EROEI cannot be a negative. The denominator is by definition an energy input, and the metric only begins to function after a given energy input is applied. Therefore it cannot be <0. As the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the output from an energy investment cannot be negative. It can be 0, but not negative. Therefore EROEI can ne 0, but it cannot be negative.

Is it like a requirement of admission into the church of peak to demonstrate technical ignorance at the most basic levels at every opportunity?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Yoshua » Tue 14 May 2019, 12:47:29

Petroleum production can have a negative EROEI if the energy is provided from other energy sources.

If the energy mix has a positive EROEI, then it can provide the energy needed to produce petroleum...even if the energy input is higher that the energy received.
Yoshua
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat 28 May 2016, 05:45:42

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 14 May 2019, 15:49:50

Yoshua wrote:Petroleum production can have a negative EROEI if the energy is provided from other energy sources.


Learn what ENERGY is before you pretend that OTHER energy isn't....you know...ENERGY.

Stop proving the point I made previously.

Yoshua wrote:If the energy mix has a positive EROEI, then it can provide the energy needed to produce petroleum...even if the energy input is higher that the energy received.


Pay attention to the equation and stop pretending that your words are a substitute.

Energy Returned / Energy Invested

Do you understand what energy is? Do you understand that the equation does not say other energy or petroleum energy? Do you understand what energy is used for? Do you understand that energy comes in different forms? Do you understand that different forms of energy have different economic cost and value? Do you understand that energy is used by humans to do work, and there is no restriction in that equation telling me where I get that energy from or what it costs?

Do you understand anything about the basics of thermodynamics? Do you know how to divide 2 numbers?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 14 May 2019, 16:43:10

Tanada wrote:By those standards anyone who speaks with an accent


Nukyular and bigly aren't on the same level as "accents".
EXTREME PREDICTION LEADERBOARD
"this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr
"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarr
ATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Wed 15 May 2019, 01:54:01

Well, that was fun. But yeah, nuclear has a high enough EROEI that it alone could run society and have plenty of energy left over to 'loan' to whatever scale e-diesel, blue-crude or synfuel industry you want. Diesel for trucking? Jet fuel for airlines? Yup. Got you covered. Just build enough nukes. tps://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
User avatar
eclipse
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri 04 Feb 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 15 May 2019, 08:56:19

eclipse wrote:Well, that was fun. But yeah, nuclear has a high enough EROEI that it alone could run society and have plenty of energy left over to 'loan' to whatever scale e-diesel, blue-crude or synfuel industry you want. Diesel for trucking? Jet fuel for airlines? Yup. Got you covered. Just build enough nukes. tps://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/


You've just latched onto nuclear as a panacea. You fail to see all the ways nuclear doesn't work out in the real world (sometimes catastrophically). Very...very...naive. There is no "just" in any mitigation strategy, not the least of which being generating the political will.
EXTREME PREDICTION LEADERBOARD
"this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr
"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarr
ATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 15 May 2019, 09:25:30

Got you covered. Just build enough nukes.


The last set of calculations we ran on that showed that it would require 36,667 1000 mega watt reactors to replace petroleum's energy contribution to the economy. Do you think the Chinese can have them built by next Friday?

It might not work out too well? Iran has all the yellow cake, and they are in a bad mood this month.

We will now return to our regularly scheduled program of serial spammers.

http://www.thehillsgroup.org/
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 5886
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 15 May 2019, 10:21:33

shortonoil wrote:
Got you covered. Just build enough nukes.


The last set of calculations we ran on that showed that it would require 36,667 1000 mega watt reactors to replace petroleum's energy contribution to the economy. Do you think the Chinese can have them built by next Friday?

It might not work out too well? Iran has all the yellow cake, and they are in a bad mood this month.

We will now return to our regularly scheduled program of serial spammers.

http://www.thehillsgroup.org/


Ironic you mention spam and then immediately below it post a link to your false reality website. Judging by your lack of social graces, mathematics ability or technical competence lets just say your estimates of how much of what anyone needs are not worth the electrons wasted to transmit them.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15350
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Baduila » Wed 15 May 2019, 13:49:16

Tanada,

you are the SITE ADMIN.
A good SITE ADMIN has two tasks:
-Neutrality
-Suppression of insults and rowdiness

You don't do both of them. Instead you comment thermodynamic models without understanding a tiny bit of them. You don't have the faintest idea about the science, which is valid for energy transformations from one form to the other.

If you don't know: Scientific models are invalidated by reality, not by likings.
And the reality is still following the oil price extrapolation of the ETP model.
oil_price_190515.png
oil_price_190515.png (50.83 KiB) Viewed 791 times
Baduila
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri 26 Jun 2015, 11:44:17

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 15 May 2019, 14:10:49

Baduila wrote:Tanada,

you are the SITE ADMIN.
A good SITE ADMIN has two tasks:
-Neutrality
-Suppression of insults and rowdiness

You don't do both of them. Instead you comment thermodynamic models without understanding a tiny bit of them. You don't have the faintest idea about the science, which is valid for energy transformations from one form to the other.

If you don't know: Scientific models are invalidated by reality, not by likings.
And the reality is still following the oil price extrapolation of the ETP model.


Here is something for you to mull over. I am both a volunteer and I serve at the pleasure of the site owner. How I do my volunteer work is set by him, not you, and if you have a problem with it I suggest you contact him directly instead of cluttering up the board with inane attempts to insult myself.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15350
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Wed 15 May 2019, 14:32:14

If there are any remaining visitors to this site who are still interested in 'real world' hydrocarbon events such as actual, current production numbers, today's releases from North Dakota and Pennsylvania for March will prove informative.

North Dakota - aka the Bakken - had March output of 1,390, 000+ barrels per day ... just a touch under January's record 1.404 million.
Gas was a record 2.8 Bcfd.
Going forward, record output is expected with a possible restrictive effect of poor springtime road conditions.

Pennsylvania produced an astounding 554 billion cubic feet per day ... annualized rate of over 7 trillion cubic feet per year.
This is close to the record.
Better weather and added pipelines ensure new record production going forward.

Both Ohio and, now, West Virginia will post first quarter 2019 results shortly.
The expansive development of both the Utica and also Marcellus in Ohio is picking up momentum due to new players and infrastructure buildout.

The vast, VAST amounts of hydrocarbons being unleashed from the US is now - and for the foreseeable future - upending global dynamics in myriad and profound ways.
coffeeguyzz
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon 27 Oct 2014, 15:09:47

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby eclipse » Thu 16 May 2019, 01:17:17

"The vast, VAST amounts of hydrocarbons being unleashed from the US is now - and for the foreseeable future - upending global dynamics in myriad and profound ways."
And from a climate POV America shouldn't be doing any of it.
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
User avatar
eclipse
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri 04 Feb 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 16 May 2019, 19:31:53

Baduila wrote:Tanada,

you are the SITE ADMIN.
A good SITE ADMIN has two tasks:
-Neutrality
-Suppression of insults and rowdiness

You don't do both of them. Instead you comment thermodynamic models without understanding a tiny bit of them.


Tanada might not, but I certainly do. Have been asked to comment on them professionally, when one makes it to the level of needing an expert to explain to the less initiated how the net energy game is played. Tanada treats the ridiculous nonsense put out by Short with far more grace then it deserves.

Baduila wrote: You don't have the faintest idea about the science, which is valid for energy transformations from one form to the other.


But some of us do. Some of us even have pointed out why years before Shorty called oil prices wrong, and mangled his "science" (it has been published since last I stopped in, or after it was laughed out of peer review did it continue to just be some nonsense Short still wants to sell to the gullible).


Baduila wrote:If you don't know: Scientific models are invalidated by reality, not by likings.


Those of us with extensive publications to their credit know this. You and Short do not, and last I heard Short couldn't even get his through review. Sounds like science doing its job...politely declining things that really aren't.

Baduila wrote:And the reality is still following the oil price extrapolation of the ETP model.
oil_price_190515.png


And that is why Short didn't pay off his bet on the accuracy of his spurious relationship? Do tell!
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Is EROEI Important Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 16 May 2019, 19:38:38

eclipse wrote:"The vast, VAST amounts of hydrocarbons being unleashed from the US is now - and for the foreseeable future - upending global dynamics in myriad and profound ways."
And from a climate POV America shouldn't be doing any of it.


Fortunate I guess then that the place is peakoil.com and not NTHE.com? I'll admit that the fast crash peakoil doomers were looking for 2 decades ago didn't trigger their favorite doom fantasy league scenario, and then they latched onto climate change. I'll bet they'll admit that it just doesn't have the kick of fuel running out next week and handing them the outcome they have been wishing for all these years though.

I'm with you though philosophically. As opposed to the misanthropes that just want doom. I EV for a reason. Downsized the entire household some 9 years ago now. Turns out, you can also save a bunch of money doing these kinds of things even if doom itself never even shows up!
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4450
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

PreviousNext

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests