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Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 Apr 2019, 15:23:58

So Newf's point, as I understand it, is that it is really easy for lots of people to rapidly reduce their carbon footprint by changing their diet.

And it would be very difficult for many millions of people to rapidly reduce their carbon footprint wrt to home heating.

Therefore...we should only talk about home heating and never mention changing diet...

Is that right? Seems a bit...strange as a point of argument, but, whatever floats your boat! :)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 26 Apr 2019, 15:50:28

That's not at all Newf's point, and I think you know that.

Changing diet is a personal decision, which can be implemented at will and without much in the way of additional expenses.

Buying a new Net Zero residence, or remodeling an existing structure into Net Zero status is a major capital expendature. For most people, their residence is the most expensive single purchase they make, and they may not have the means (or enough working years) to achieve a Net Zero residence.

Those that cannot do so will be living in cold homes, or shivering under electric heated blankets in completely unheated spaces. (Peak wood happens the year after FF's go unaffordable.)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 26 Apr 2019, 18:30:56

KJ wins the Reading Comprehension quiz.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 20 May 2019, 14:35:41

Here is a hopeful story from the 'adaptation' POV.

An extinct bird species has evolved back into existence, study says

A previously extinct species of bird has re-evolved back into existence, according to a new study. The Aldabra rail first went extinct around 136,000 years ago. Now, it's reclaimed its home island.

According to a study published Wednesday in the Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society, a peer-reviewed scientific journal, sediments from the Aldabra Atoll in the Indian Ocean show that the island has been completely submerged multiple times, wiping out all species inhabiting it. Every time, every species on the island went extinct — but the Aldabra rail has returned, again and again.

The rail is an example of iterative evolution — when the same ancestral lineage leads to repeated evolution of a species at different points in time. The rare phenomenon means that species can re-emerge over and over, despite past iterations going extinct.

The Aldabra white-throated rail first went extinct around 136,000 years ago — but now, it's back. CHARLES J SHARP

The flightless bird — a descendant of a species of flying bird known as the white-throated rail — was completely wiped out when the island disappeared below sea level about 136,000 years ago. When sea levels fell again a few thousand years later, fossils show that the species re-colonized it, once again losing the ability to fly due to an absence of predators on the island.

"These unique fossils provide irrefutable evidence that a member of the rail family colonised the atoll, most likely from Madagascar, and became flightless independently on each occasion," lead researcher Dr. Julian Hume, avian paleontologist and research associate at the Natural History Museum, said in a statement. "Fossil evidence presented here is unique for rails, and epitomises the ability of these birds to successfully colonise isolated islands and evolve flightlessness on multiple occasions."

While flying was not necessary to avoid predators, it also meant the birds had no way to escape their native island once sea levels began to rise. But unlike the famous Dodo of Mauritius, the rails were able to re-emerge from Madagascar once sea levels lowered again.

Today, the flightless Aldabra rail has once again reclaimed its island — and it's now the last surviving species of flightless bird in the Indian Ocean.

The study marks the first time iterative evolution has been observed in rails, and represents one of the "most significant" instances ever found in birds, scientists say.

"We know of no other example in rails, or of birds in general, that demonstrates this phenomenon so evidently," co-author professor David Martill, a paleobiologist at the University of Portsmouth, said. "Only on Aldabra, which has the oldest palaeontological record of any oceanic island within the Indian Ocean region, is fossil evidence available that demonstrates the effects of changing sea levels on extinction and recolonization events."

With the risk of extinction looming over 1 million species of plants and animals, modern Aldabra rails may face the same fate as their ancestors. But given the evidence of this study, perhaps a third iteration of the rail will eventually return to the remote island.


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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 May 2019, 15:09:55

Neat story Tanada.

Now for something completely different.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatl ... le/579340/
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 May 2019, 15:53:18

In case you think the military doesn’t get it.

https://gcaptain.com/melting-ice-caps-a ... stavridis/

James Stavridis is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. He is a retired U.S. Navy admiral and former supreme allied commander of NATO, and dean emeritus of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. He is also an operating executive consultant at the Carlyle Group and chairs the board of counselors at McLarty Associates.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 20 May 2019, 17:02:04

Newfie wrote:Neat story Tanada.

Now for something completely different.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatl ... le/579340/


Gore's point that we are extremely close to a tipping point politically.

What do you guys think about that? Are we?

I associate with a rarefied group that comes up to our resort. I do not have enough contact with folks across the political spectrum in the US to really know.

Does acknowledging climate change have the potential to cross the political divide?

Of course acknowledging may be easier then agreeing on what solutions to take, but at least moving beyond the denial stage would be progress of sorts.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 May 2019, 19:58:58

That was the one point I disagreed with. Otherwise I heard his as thoughtful and articulate.

No, I see most of the USA locked into a fascination with Donald Trump.

Reminds me of the old saw: Hate is not the opposite of Love, Indifference is.

There is very little indifference to Trump in the USA. No room left for substantive discussion.

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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 20 May 2019, 20:25:33

Newfie wrote:That was the one point I disagreed with. Otherwise I heard his as thoughtful and articulate.

No, I see most of the USA locked into a fascination with Donald Trump.

Reminds me of the old saw: Hate is not the opposite of Love, Indifference is.

There is very little indifference to Trump in the USA. No room left for substantive discussion.




That's funny, I was wondering about that very same thing. Everything has a shelf life, even the fascination with Trump whether you hate him or love him. Indifference exactly explains where I am at regarding him in contrast to a year ago when I was full on hating him.

Actually and more accurately, I am indifferent not just to Trump singularly but to the whole country's fascination with hating him or loving him. It is just not interesting any more.... How long can you hang in that space?

I was wondering if the indifference I feel was reflected in the collective at large but you suggest otherwise.

What Gore is suggesting though has to happen at some point. It is inevitable as evidence mounts that climate change will depart from being a political issue of whether it is happening or not.

What to do about it will continue to be highly politicized however
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 20 May 2019, 21:55:21

"It is inevitable as evidence mounts that climate change will depart from being a political issue..."

That would be logical.

The problem is that humans are not always logical. One might even say it is more of a rarity.

Witness the recent elections in Australia, a country at the front lines of CC-induced disasters.

" Australia’s dysfunctional, unpopular, conservative government (the Liberal and National parties, currently in coalition, sit on the right in Australian politics) held onto power for a third term in Saturday’s national election. This happened despite the fact that most analysts expected it to lose a large number of seats; despite being (seemingly) out of step with the nation’s emerging consensus on climate change..."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... rison.html

Members of both major parties agree that CC is a serious problem, though more on the left 'strongly' agree while those on the right generally just simply 'agree.' So...what happened?

http://theconversation.com/australians- ... oll-117171
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby eclipse » Mon 20 May 2019, 22:54:09

It looks like we'll have to use SRM (Solar Radiation Mangement) to give us a bit more time.
8 minutes: Dr David Keith says we could use SRM to offset about HALF our warning, and that this would avoid the bad side effects of SRM. Any more, and we risk shutting down the Indian Monsoon which would be as bad as out of control climate change anyway!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQRPUtVrSc
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 21 May 2019, 10:58:09

“What happened” is that folks had to ante up to do something.

I say again, I strongly believe that less than 5% of Americans truly understand climate change and the depth of the problem.

Elsewhere I linked to the Bill Nye video trying to explain that CC is a serious issue. What I noticed when searching for a link is that all the buzz was about him saying “fucked”, very little about the substance of the message.

Our mental capacity could be summed by by watching Idiotocracy followed by Ground Hog Day on an endless loop.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 21 May 2019, 16:14:54

I say again, I strongly believe that less than 5% of Americans truly understand climate change and the depth of the problem.

Elsewhere I linked to the Bill Nye video trying to explain that CC is a serious issue.


the sad part of this is you claim (probably rightfully so ) that < 5% of Americans understand climate change but then go on to suggest that somehow they can get the answers from Bill Nye the know virtually nothing guy? What the heck have you been smoking? If your understanding of climate change is anything whatsoever like his then you are part of the problem, not the solution I'm afraid. :(
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 21 May 2019, 16:45:26

And so we enter the BIG SQUEEZE with a lack of competency in guiding the juggernaut of the clueless.

It is actually not important that only 5% understand the details of climate change. The climate that needs to be addressed is leadership so that the 95% who don't understand have a level of trust in the process of whatever mitigation is eventually decided that defers to competent leaders.

Untrustworthy self serving leadership that does not win the support of the 95% is more of the problem.

We will never sell the public at large in the part of mitigation that will require some self sacrifice as long as the leadership remains incompetent and self serving.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby eclipse » Wed 22 May 2019, 01:51:23

Oh well, at least if Trump pushes the big red button that will fix one extreme of climate change... as it quickly plunges us into another!
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 22 May 2019, 06:32:04

Ironically it might actually buy us a few years to readjust, by dumping a lot of dimming particles into the upper atmosphere. Not a certainty, a possibility. It would knock world trade a good bit, slowing production. That might be off set by military CO2 omissions. No one knows the net effect.

I’m don’t see any reason to think Trump will push the USA towards nuclear war. He s a dealer, a negotiator. You can’t have trade if you have nuclear war. That would ruin his game. He is cantankerous and ornery, but he is unlikely to upset the poker table.

Also, so far, I can’t think of any new major conflicts he has gotten us info unlike Obama who got us into Syria and called air strikes to defeat Gadaffi, a direct intervention that did not threaten the USA.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 22 May 2019, 09:09:35

I wouldn't be so sure:

...[Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can’t we use them...


https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-a ... ports.html

Also: Trump vows to bring about “the official end of Iran” if it threatens the US again

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/20/18632247/ ... orth-korea

Sounds to me like he's perfectly willing and even eager to use nukes.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 22 May 2019, 18:46:14

What Obama DID was to make an unprovoked attack on a foreign country.

You have no problem with that?

Check this out.

https://gcaptain.com/insurer-says-irans ... r-attacks/

What over the top retaliation response did Trump use?

Catastrophizing is an irrational thought a lot of us have in believing that something is far worse than it actually is. Catastrophizing can generally can take two different forms: making a catastrophe out of a current situation, and imagining making a catastrophe out of a future situation


Look, here’s the thing, this thread is about Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption. Yet here we are talking about Trump and relatively small issues.

So you are not concerning yourself with climate change when you are bashing Trump. In fact you are most likely playing into his game plan, an unwitting dupe.
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 23 May 2019, 20:58:37

Ah, more 'whataboutism.' Not surprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

"Look, here’s the thing, this thread is about Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption. Yet here we are talking about Trump and relatively small issues."

Says the guy who just tried to derail a thread about children's education with irrelevant and gratuitous partisan tripe! :D :D :D

Meanwhile getting back on topic a bit wrt mitigation:

https://thinkprogress.org/maryland-clea ... Cok40C7AJI

Republican-led Maryland commits to sweeping clean energy standards

In a twist, Gov. Larry Hogan has endorsed a bigger target: 100% clean energy for the state by 2040.


Look everybody, this is me, dohboi, patting these Republicans on the back (or head or derriere, or wherever these types like to be patted :) ) for doing something right! How very non-partisan of me!! Do I get some kind of credit, or a gold start or something?? :) :)
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Re: Climate Change: Mitigation and Adaption

Unread postby Cog » Thu 23 May 2019, 21:28:32

It is a difficult political proposition to demand sacrifice unless the threat is crystal clear and the desired end state is preferable to the alternative of doing nothing.
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