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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 18 Sep 2019, 08:40:30

Yeah, it's ALL the fault of environmentalists and alt-energy folks. Excuse me, I'm about to lose internet on my next flight to Africa.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby GHung » Wed 18 Sep 2019, 09:06:09

asg70 wrote:Yeah, it's ALL the fault of environmentalists and alt-energy folks. Excuse me, I'm about to lose internet on my next flight to Africa.


At least they don't have to float diversions and make excuses for not at least trying.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:14:36

The thing is, since even with their very watered down versions, scientists were either ignored or accused of over-dramatizing the situtation...if they had actually stated how bad things were going to get and how quickly, they probably would have been even more thoroughly ridiculed and rejected.

By Republicans specifically and vocally, by FF companies and their lackeys even more vociferously, and by many Dems and liberals (and even our beloved P :) ) by the softer denial of just going about our lives as if doing so were not utterly crushing the life out of the planet.

Even though it is an obvious logical fallacy, people tend to reject findings that are bad beyond their imaginations, and even more so if the findings show that people themselves are largely to blame, and that they have to change not only their lifestyles but also some of their most cherished ideologies.

I have to admit that it is hard for more me myself to totally take in the enormity of the finding that the latest and best models have us hurtling toward a likely 7 C above pre-industrial by the time newborns today reach 80 (if they make it that far). Especially considering that these are still the findings of scientists, and scientific reticence has likely not completely disappeared...so this is likely an under-estimate, perhaps by a lot.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 19 Sep 2019, 14:50:38

dohboi wrote: by the softer denial of just................. .


Might be soft but damn fucking tenacious
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Revi » Mon 23 Sep 2019, 11:25:15

Here's a great article about what it's doing here in Maine:
https://www.centralmaine.com/2019/09/22 ... -in-maine/

We are seeing a lot of changes. Maine has inland and shore areas, so it's a good place to understand what's going on.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 23 Sep 2019, 14:07:57

dohboi wrote:I have to admit that it is hard for more me myself to totally take in the enormity of the finding that the latest and best models have us hurtling toward a likely 7 C above pre-industrial by the time newborns today reach 80 (if they make it that far). Especially considering that these are still the findings of scientists, and scientific reticence has likely not completely disappeared...so this is likely an under-estimate, perhaps by a lot.

Lets hope that this growth of temperature is going to be exponential, so those older of us don't see it.
So lets hope that by 2070 it will be 2-3 *C warmer and then within 2-3 decades additional 5*C will come.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 23 Sep 2019, 14:12:03

????

Yes, it would truly be horrible of those most responsible for the catastrophe had to live to see the worst of the consequences of their own actions and policies!!! /sarc
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 24 Sep 2019, 13:53:59


Every Group Except [most] Older Republicans Is Concerned About Climate Change


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/climate- ... 9d472adbb3

Sooo, what is it gonna take to get these (or you! 8O ) old codgers on board?? :)
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 24 Sep 2019, 17:30:32

dohboi wrote:Sooo, what is it gonna take to get these (or you! 8O ) old codgers on board?? :)


Give me liberty to deny or give me death.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Pops » Tue 24 Sep 2019, 23:04:33

dohboi wrote:
Every Group Except [most] Older Republicans Is Concerned About Climate Change


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/climate- ... 9d472adbb3

Sooo, what is it gonna take to get these (or you! 8O ) old codgers on board?? :)

Dohboi, I've lived my life around them and always gave them the benefit of the doubt because I could see and experienced myself most of what they did. But I've changed my mind and no longer attempt to empathize.

They elected Regan/Bush/Bush and especially trump because they couldn't say the n word in polite company, couldn't keep a job for the college/black/brown/female/overseas competition, voted R and surprisingly couldn't get a decent raise for 30 years, couldn't squeeze the secretary's ass, couldn't smoke at work, couldn't put their cigarette butt out in on their breakfast plate at Sambos, couldn't tell pollock/wetback/okie jokes, couldn't pour their old motor oil down the storm drain, couldn't talk shit about the sissy boy or slutty looking girl in accounting, couldn't keep their kids as ignorant as them, couldn't buy incandescent lights, couldn't refuse to bake cakes for queers, couldn't use 2-4d on their dandelions, couldn't keep the neighborhood (daughters) "safe" from the meskins, couldn't police other people's bedrooms, couldn't, couldn't, couldn't.

Trump proves it was never about Christ, never family values, never about Taxed Enough Already, never deficits or spending, never about patriotism (trump literally hugging the flag makes me physically ill). It was always about their loss of station, their resentment at losing the privilege of the front of the bus, the right to beat their wife, or kid or dog. Their dads and themselves were never going to the top but at least there were not on the bottom, because they were free, white and 21.

Trumps 'base': white, rural (duh), uneducated, old, and especially men are killing themselves by the 10s of thousands and the various-ologists can't imagine why. For christ's sake, look who they elected. Look at them falling over themselves to defend him making us variously a laughing stock and unstable dictatorship.

What makes you think these addicts and suicidals and synagogue bombers and run of the mill anti-science misogynists and misanthropes give a rats ass about anyone's future? In fact the blind loyalty they show trump in the face of his assault on everything they have professed to believe in proves to me they are not and never have been acting in good faith, they are merely out for revenge, and to make the libtards cry.

They will gladly take the whole thing down
.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 02:37:26

Pops wrote:What makes you think these addicts and suicidals and synagogue bombers and run of the mill anti-science misogynists and misanthropes give a rats ass about anyone's future? In fact the blind loyalty they show trump in the face of his assault on everything they have professed to believe in proves to me they are not and never have been acting in good faith, they are merely out for revenge, and to make the libtards cry.



Newfie, I know your going to get all riled up over Pops rant here but honestly, ask yourself why you keep banging your head against the wall trying to have a good faith discourse with Cog? You keep hoping Cog will respond with you attempting to meet him half way. I am sorry to tell you that is the last thing he is interested in. Cog will never meet you half way. Pops description is spot on.

You can't reason with hate.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 09:21:17

Indeed, the anti-conservative hate prevents certain people from seeing reality as it is because their personal lens viewpoint distorts everything.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 09:35:48

Tanada wrote:Indeed, the anti-conservative hate prevents certain people from seeing reality as it is because their personal lens viewpoint distorts everything.


I personally know quite a few conservatives in rural areas, democrats and republicans that do not buy into this hate grievance bullshit you see from radicalized trump supporters who follow their leader like mindless groupies.

The stereotype of rural americans all being trump supporters is wrong. Many are not buying Donald Trumps hate racist rhetoric bullshit.

Time will tell how this all comes out.

I think the main point is not to waste your time with folks so deeply entrenched in hate and grievances. You cant change them.... you just wait patiently for the emerging generation to make them irrelevant.

What we are witnessing is a temporary phenomenon. It might stretch another term or two but the pendulum toward unity and consensus will prevail especially when aging baby boomers start dying off.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:05:00

Thanks for the eloquent insights, all.

I am proud to be on the same forum with folks that have such wisdom and honesty, whatever our other differences in politics or ideology may be.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Pops » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:31:49

Ibon wrote:I think the main point is not to waste your time with folks so deeply entrenched in hate and grievances. You cant change them.... you just wait patiently for the emerging generation to make them irrelevant.

What we are witnessing is a temporary phenomenon. It might stretch another term or two but the pendulum toward unity and consensus will prevail especially when aging baby boomers start dying off.

The whole situation makes my belly churn. I grew up and lived my entire life with trumps base, understood how good people had true belief in self reliance, many had actual faith and followed Jesus, were proud to a fault (yeah, that's a sin but ...) were kind and generous and loyal, were the first to stand up for the country — the Constitution — and fight when asked.

They are still out there.

That's what makes the current perversion so upsetting to me and no doubt to them. They voted for what they thought were people that represented them and their values but got trickle-down, "Right To Work," and trade and anti-trust policy aimed at promoting "shareholder value" at the expense of all else. They are rabidly anti-communist and free market because they want to make their own decisions and believe in personal responsibility and reward, but what they got was 40 years of flat wages, government protected rentier capitalism, imperialist supranational labor arbitrage all in return for cheap undershorts and TVs. What "wealth" they once had has been eroded, the bottom 90% have lost one third of their already small portion of the wealth pie over the last 30 years.

They got screwed, because as Buffet siad, the class war is over and his side won — his side being capital. But what is their recourse, vote for Hillary? My own daughter told my wife "Do you know how many people the Clintons have killed?" It is just dumbfounding the extent to which the Gingrich Revolution has poisoned the well. Ailes, Limbaugh, alex jones and the rest have captured and weaponized a governing majority wielded by the kocks, norquist, etc to reduce taxes and regulation for their sole benefit.

Which brings me finally back on topic.
In just a few days trump both disallowed CA (and the 17 states that follow its lead) from enforcing higher standards on vehicle air pollution, then yesterday threatened to withhold CA hiway dollars because... air pollution. This is certainly a win win for him because as we all know the left coast is the perfect punching bag for his base who can boast about his leadership on air quality while sniggering that he really stuck it to the west coast libtards. This is what I mean by bad faith. At every turn he and Rs attempt to block, repeal, renege on climate protection not because their constituency wants asthma and cancer, but because their corporate donors and future employers pay them to.

They have captured their victims in a Stockholm chokehold. Convincing them it is either defend the owners right to pollute and profiteer and indeed flout the law and constitution or vote for the corrupt, socialist, murderous, baby-raping pizza parlor gang. I just makes me sick.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 12:22:19

You and me, both, Pops.

"It is just dumbfounding the extent to which the Gingrich Revolution has poisoned the well. Ailes, Limbaugh, alex jones and the rest have captured and weaponized a governing majority wielded by the kocks, norquist, etc... "

This was particularly well put.

The irony of the head of the 'states' rights' party now denying a state it's rights--and not rights to oppress, but to innovate, to be the 'laboratory of democracy' it was meant to be--is quite rich indeed.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 13:02:46

Pops, I just love your descriptions, just 'Fucking A(wsome)!'

Yes, I remember when California had a ballot measure to build libraries across the state, the rural areas torpedoed it, while liberal areas were all for it. I just had to think how the Bay Area already had all new libraries and this ballot measure was mainly for the rest of the state. The stupid are proud in their stupidity and just want to keep it that way! We had a recent ballot measure locally to create more park land and less development (because we are up to our ears in development already). It got defeated because of a measly $200 property tax assessment. Welcome, more development and traffic congestion.

If we want to really blame a demographic on this Trump fiasco, I would blame the well-to-do white male selfish class and their intellectual toadies for this. Sorry, I can't be more eloquent in my description, though.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Pops » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 13:18:11

thanks guys.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 13:30:46

dohboi wrote:
Every Group Except [most] Older Republicans Is Concerned About Climate Change


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/climate- ... 9d472adbb3

Sooo, what is it gonna take to get these (or you! 8O ) old codgers on board?? :)

Why not have ALL those other groups vote for radical action on climate change, all over the world, and just fix it? Those older Republicans couldn't make a dent in such a united front.

The fact is, as reflected in very little real action, including the Paris Climate Accords, that the masses don't want to ACTUALLY meaningfully scale back their standard of living in order to make a serious remediation effort.

...

Look, I just do simple straightforward things to try to do my part as a 60 YO moderate.

Drive under 4000 miles a year. Never fly. Keep the house at 77ish in warm season and 66ish in cold season (68 if I'm sick). Don't buy all kinds of needless crap and pile it up. Generally wait until things are old and unreliable before replacing them. Eat less meat (though I'm no vegetarian -- just trying to be healthier and produce less CO2 from my diet).

Now, how hard was that, or something along that line? And I realize not everyone can live close to work, but that should be a serious goal for people serious about climate change, BTW.

But try to implement anything REMOTELY IN THE BALLPARK of those sorts of CO2 reduction lifestyle changes for the masses "so concerned" about AGW, and you'd have politicians thrown out of office all over the place, and no end of protests. You'd have massive screeching at a level that would make Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren appear as droll as Willam F. Buckley Jr.

It's going to take a LOT more than endless polls that turn 180 degrees as soon as serious costs (AKA reality) or sacrifices are introduced into the questions.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 25 Sep 2019, 13:40:32

Nobody really wants to do anything about climate change. However, we know who the denier class is. That's all.
Last edited by jedrider on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 14:55:09, edited 1 time in total.
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