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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Vermillion2 » Tue 12 Feb 2019, 19:57:06

Sorry, but I'm not at all interested in abstract philosophical concepts like "Nature", "God" or what have you. There are currently no forms of life on Earth that are not being affected by human pollution (in all of its forms -- auditory, visual, aquatic, atmospheric) -- with the possible exception of microbes at the deeper stratifications of Earth's upper crust. If current trends unfold as projected, most forms of vertebrate life will be extinct in maybe 300 years, tops, on a planet that will more closely resemble Venus than what we have today.

There's no equivalence between humanity in the 21st century, and termites.
And for 99% of its 300,000 years of existence, our species displayed no such inclinations toward a petroleum-based market economy. This really isn't a philosophical matter; it's an emergency and a call to arms -- if you haven't heeded the call by now you clearly never will and we're not looking to change your mind.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 12 Feb 2019, 20:27:55

Vermillion2 wrote: This really isn't a philosophical matter; it's an emergency and a call to arms -- if you haven't heeded the call by now you clearly never will and we're not looking to change your mind.


Without the catalyst of consequences there will most likely never be a collective call to arms.

An emergency has to hurt.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 14:50:59

Vermillion2 wrote:...it's an emergency and a call to arms -- if you haven't heeded the call by now you clearly never will and we're not looking to change your mind.


I agree with you that climate change is an emergency, but lets face facts here----outside of climate activists and scientists hardly anybody else can hear the "emergency call to arms."

The US (and the world) urgently need to reduce CO2 emissions, but very little is happening. The 2015 paris Accords were ballyhooed as a way to reduce CO2 emissions, but when you look at the 2015 Paris Climate Accords and do the math on all the pledges, the Paris Accords are actually an agreement to INCREASE CO2 emissions, not decrease them. The data is very clear----global CO2 emissions have gone UP since the Paris Accords, not down.

AND the same kind of deception and double dealing is still going on today. California claims to want to reduce CO2 emissions, but they just cancelled their electric High Speed Rail System, even though more trains would mean less trucks and cars on the road and less planes in the air and therefore less CO2 emissions.

The Ds in Congress claim to want to reduce CO2 emissions, but Nancy Pelosi won't even allow the "Green New Deal" proposed by AOC to come to a vote. I don't see the Ds kicking out Nancy Pelosi any time soon, so that door is closed.

When it comes to climate change the emergency call to arms has mostly fallen on deaf ears.

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 15:40:08

Plant,

While I agree in general I think your wrong on the details of high speed rail. As far as I know it does nothing for commercial traffic, and as for passenger it is just a subsidy for the upper tax brackets.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 15:42:55

V2,

I don’t think your getting a lot of push back on your analysis.

What actions do you propose?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 17:31:42

Newfie wrote:Plant,
While I agree in general I think your wrong on the details of high speed rail. As far as I know .... for passenger it is just a subsidy for the upper tax brackets.


1. All sorts of people travel----not just the upper tax brackets.

2. Yes, HSR requires subsidies----but so does every other form of transportation. Do we want to subsidize highways and airports, and continue to pump huge amounts of CO2 into the air, or do we want to subsidize things like electric HSR that don't put as much CO2 in the air?

The hypocritical California Ds have just decided to continue to put their subsidy money into forms of transportation that create more CO2 pollution, instead of things like electric HSR that produce much less CO2 and hence less global warming. Thats very short sighted, IMHO.

Image

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 20:26:00

To actually build miles of high speed rail today the first thing you have to do is revamp the permitting and right of way acquisition process. Today they are spending millions before the first shovel of dirt is turned.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 22:04:36

Climate updates: What have we learnt since the IPCC 5th Assessment Report?

November 2017 DES5123 ISBN: 978-1-78252-306-2

https://royalsociety.org/~/media/policy ... report.pdf

With the next assessment report (AR6) not due until 2022, it is timely to consider how evidence presented since the publication of AR5 affects the assessments made then.


In summary, gradual climate change could trigger abrupt changes – with large regional and potentially global impacts – associated with thresholds in the Earth system. The possibility of crossing any of these thresholds increases with each increment of warming.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dissident » Wed 13 Feb 2019, 23:24:46

The reason the public is not roused to action is because the fake stream media is and has been busy pushing elite narratives and instigating hysteria where it suits them. If the elites wanted to act on global warming, then you could bet your last penny that there would be mass hysteria. By parading every denier crank as a "balancing" voice in the climate change discussion the MSM has created the perception that this subject is not worthy of concern. If there is a Hell, then all these "journalist" slime have a one ticket there.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby clif » Thu 14 Feb 2019, 03:36:53

California claims to want to reduce CO2 emissions, but they just cancelled their electric High Speed Rail System,


Actually that is not what he said.

This is what he said;

Next, let’s level about High-Speed Rail. I have nothing but respect for Governor Brown’s and Governor Schwarzenegger’s ambitious vision. I share it. And there’s no doubt that our state’s economy and quality of life depend on improving transportation.

But let’s be real. The project, as currently planned, would cost too much and take too long. There’s been too little oversight and not enough transparency.

Right now, there simply isn’t a path to get from Sacramento to San Diego, let alone from San Francisco to LA. I wish there were.

However, we do have the capacity to complete a high-speed rail link between Merced and Bakersfield.

I know that some critics will say this is a “train to nowhere.” But that’s wrong and offensive. The people of the Central Valley endure the worst air pollution in America as well as some of the longest commutes. And they have suffered too many years of neglect from policymakers here in Sacramento. They deserve better.

High-Speed Rail is much more than a train project. It’s about economic transformation and unlocking the enormous potential of the Valley.

We can align our economic and workforce development strategies, anchored by High-Speed Rail, and pair them with tools like opportunity zones, to form the backbone of a reinvigorated Central Valley economy.

Merced, Fresno, Bakersfield, and communities in between are more dynamic than many realize.

The Valley may be known around the world for agriculture, but there is another story ready to be told. A story of a region hungry for investment, a workforce eager for more training and good jobs, Californians who deserve a fair share of our state’s prosperity.

Look, we will continue our regional projects north and south. We’ll finish Phase 1 environmental work. We’ll connect the revitalized Central Valley to other parts of the state, and continue to push for more federal funding and private dollars. But let’s just get something done.

For those who want to walk away from this whole endeavor, I offer you this:

Abandoning high-speed rail entirely means we will have wasted billions of dollars with nothing but broken promises and lawsuits to show for it.

And by the way, I am not interested in sending $3.5 billion in federal funding that was allocated to this project back to Donald Trump.

Nor am I interested in repeating the same old mistakes.

Today I am ordering new transparency measures.

We’re going to hold contractors and consultants accountable to explain how taxpayer dollars are spent – including change orders, cost overruns, even travel expenses. It’s going online, for everybody to see.

You’re also going to see some governance changes, starting with my pick for the next chair of the High-Speed Rail Authority, Lenny Mendonca, my Economic Development Director. Because, at the end of the day, transportation and economic development must go hand in hand.


Can you explain how you took the words he said and twisted them into what you said?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 14 Feb 2019, 08:27:02

Plant,

All people travel, but only relatively wealthy folks travel high speed rail.

Something much simpler and more effective would be to make mass transit in the big cities free. It is tremendously more efficient and makes it far easier for working people to work. As hell, the benefits are so numerous I can’t list or describe them all. And it’s simple, no initial infrastructure outlay needed.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 14 Feb 2019, 08:30:09

dissident wrote:The reason the public is not roused to action is because the fake stream media is and has been busy pushing elite narratives and instigating hysteria where it suits them. If the elites wanted to act on global warming, then you could bet your last penny that there would be mass hysteria. By parading every denier crank as a "balancing" voice in the climate change discussion the MSM has created the perception that this subject is not worthy of concern. If there is a Hell, then all these "journalist" slime have a one ticket there.


Ahmen!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 08:40:16

After totally failing to secure money from Congress for his promised US-Mexico border wall, the US president says he will declare a “national emergency” and appropriate funds for it from elsewhere. Democrats say such a precedent would allow the next president to act aggressively on climate change.

Dana Nuccitelli: "A president who declares climate change a national emergency can then: 1) suspend all offshore oil leases 2) take steps to support 'critical technologies' like batteries & EVs 3) potentially restrict fossil fuel transport 4) regulate fossil fuel companies”
https://twitter.com/dana1981/status/1096492679540629504

Using Emergency Powers to Fight Climate Change


Republicans are apparently worried that if Trump could use emergency powers by declaring border security a national emergency, the next president could do the same thing for climate change. There’s no doubt that this would be far more legitimate than Trump’s wall effort. Border crossings are much lower than they were ten years ago; he has said in the recent past that his prior efforts have vastly improved border security. In contrast, the Pentagon has classified climate change as a threat to national security, and Congress under Republican control has even endorsed this view. Furthermore, scientists have made it clear that we have a limited time to head-off a disastrous outcome. ...


http://legal-planet.org/2019/01/14/usin ... te-change/

(Thanks for text and links to sig at asif)

Sooo, maybe Trump will end up laying the groundwork for the ability of a new president to take real action addressing CC! :)
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 08:51:18

If Trumps "emergency" gets stopped by the courts it may well have the effect of closing off that avenue of action for future presidents. Might be a good thing to get it settled on something as dubious as this.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Cog » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 09:35:22

Democrats don't sit around waiting for Republicans to invoke or not invoke national emergencies. They have their own agenda that they will execute regardless of precedent or legality for that matter.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby GHung » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 09:57:46

Cog wrote:Democrats don't sit around waiting for Republicans to invoke or not invoke national emergencies. They have their own agenda that they will execute regardless of precedent or legality for that matter.


Specific examples? Ones the courts have found to be illegal?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby Cog » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 10:46:28

Obama's expansion of DACA was found to be an unconstitutional use of power.

I would argue that any laws restricting the 2nd Amendment are unconstitutional on their face. But many Democrat state legislatures are proceeding with them anyway.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 11:17:12

vt, I'm glad we agree that this 'emergency' is dubious, at best.

cog, thanks for the typical example of 'whataboutism'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 11:43:38

dohboi wrote:vt, I'm glad we agree that this 'emergency' is dubious, at best.

cog, thanks for the typical example of 'whataboutism'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Some forget that I did not vote for the moron!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 21

Unread postby GHung » Sat 16 Feb 2019, 12:25:28

Cog wrote:
Obama's expansion of DACA was found to be an unconstitutional use of power.

I would argue that any laws restricting the 2nd Amendment are unconstitutional on their face. But many Democrat state legislatures are proceeding with them anyway.


Really?

On August 31, 2018, District Court Judge Andrew Hanen ruled that DACA is likely unconstitutional. However, he let the program remain in place as litigation proceeds....

...... The legality of DACA and its proposed expansions were challenged in court. But only the expansions were halted under a preliminary injunction. Legal experts are divided as to the constitutionality of DACA and no court has issued a ruling determining its constitutionality.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_ ... es_to_DACA


Important information about DACA requests: Due to a federal court order, USCIS has resumed accepting requests to renew a grant of deferred action under DACA. USCIS is not accepting requests from individuals who have never before been granted deferred action under DACA. Until further notice, and unless otherwise provided in this guidance, the DACA policy will be operated on the terms in place before it was rescinded on Sept. 5, 2017.
https://www.ice.gov/daca


Care to try again?
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