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THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby lpetrich » Fri 05 Jul 2019, 22:42:25

Cog wrote:After all the Democrat party was the party of slavery, secession to protect the institution of slavery, civil war, Jim Crow laws, the Ku Klux Klan, and segregation.

That's the Southern Democrats, the ones who became Republicans over the last 50 - 75 years. Consider which party David Duke is in. It's the Republican Party. Also consider that all-too-well-known rally in Charlottesville VA in 2017: It was "Unite the Right" and it included Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi participants. They had Confederate flags among their flags.

The present-day Democratic Party is more-or-less what the Republican Party once was, the party of the states that stayed in the Union rather than join the Confederacy. Looking at what Abraham Lincoln did as president, he'd seem like a good Democrat by present-day standards. He raised taxes, he promoted homeownership (the Homestead Acts) and infrastructure development (the Transcontinental Railroad) and higher education (land-grand colleges), and he increased the power of the Federal Government.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby lpetrich » Fri 05 Jul 2019, 23:11:32

The Ku Klux Klan had traditionally wanted the United States to be dominated by White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Let's see who's prominent in the present-day Democratic Party.

Nancy Pelosi? Italian. Chuck Schumer? Eastern European Jewish. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Puerto Rican. Rashida Tlaib? Palestinian Arab. Ilhan Omar? Somalian. Barack Obama? Though his mother was a WASP, his father was an East African. Kamala Harris? Half Asian Indian and she likely has some WASP ancestry on her father's side. Elizabeth Warren? A WASP. Joe Biden? Catholic and largely Irish. Possible honorary WASP. Pete Buttigieg? Maltese. Bernie Sanders? Eastern European Jewish. Beto O'Rourke? Largely Irish. Possible honorary WASP.

So they'd only like Elizabeth Warren and possibly also Joe Biden and Beto O'Rourke.

Let's look at the Republican Party. Donald Trump? He is German and Scottish, and he likely qualifies as an honorary WASP. Mitch McConnell? He is English and Scots-Irish, making him WASP and honorary WASP. John Boehner? Mostly German and Irish, thus an honorary WASP. Ben Carson? Black. Jeb Bush? Mostly WASP. Ted Cruz? Half Cuban and half honorary WASP. Chris Christie? Half Italian and half honorary WASP. Marco Rubio? Cuban. Rick Santorum? Mostly Italian. Rand Paul? Largely WASP and honorary WASP (German). Mike Huckabee? WASP and honorary WASP. Lindsey Graham? Honorary WASP. Rick Perry? WASP. Carly Simon? WASP and honorary WASP.

A lot more WASP's among prominent Republicans than among prominent Democrats. Guess which one the KKK would love?
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 06 Jul 2019, 01:45:57

An entirely facetious and completely mistaken argument.

You see, they never found anybody but Democrats when they checked under those KKK robes. In my youth, it was not unusual for us to see burning crosses on the way to and from the drive-in theater or a family restaurant, in Louisiana in the late 1950s. The solid Democratic South was the most monolithic voting block in Federal Politics, and totally extremely right wing. The only substantive elections in the S states were the D primaries. But membership in the KKK was required of all S Federal Politicians, without it they simply lost the D primary election.

The Quakers were a Protestant Christian sect that originated in England in the 17th Century, who joined the Massachutsetts Bay Colony seeking religious freedom. The history is clear, the first abolitionist writings in the American colonies were made by prominent Quakers in Massachutsetts, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania.

When the US Civil War happened, the Union was led by the "Great Emancipator" and founder of the GOP, Abraham Lincoln.

Why must Democrats deny history? You must own up to this shameful past, or be forever handicapped by it.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby lpetrich » Sat 06 Jul 2019, 13:00:29

Let me get this straight. So the Republican Party is the party of raising taxes, increasing the size and power of the Federal Government, aggression against the South, special rights labeled "civil rights", giveaways of free stuff and crony capitalism -- at least as described using present-day right-wing rhetoric. Doesn't that make one want to be a Democrat?
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 06 Jul 2019, 13:51:55

Well no. Because the D party is substantially the same, different “skin” but the same “operating system” down below.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 06 Jul 2019, 16:26:23

That is pretty much correct. That is why I have NEVER been a registered D or R. Nor do I see much present day differences between them. They TALK differently for purposes of vote pandering, but once in office they are overwhelmingly the SAME. They pretty much sell their votes to the oligharchs who are actually controling the legislatures and executives via campaign funding.

Once you make the adult adjustment to your thinking, and start observing what they DO versus what they SAY, I am pretty sure that you will reach the same conclusion. Around election time, spend some time at votesmart.org, and look up the actual voting records of the candidates. You will be greatly surprised at the disparty between words and actions.

In the history of the two major parties, there are beaucoups differences. From the Civil War Reconstruction up until the Civil Rights era, the Democratic Party was the refuge of bigots and the oppressors of minorities. Then along came a "damned Yankee" politician, JFK (and his brother RFK) who pulled off a takeover of the Democrats, the so-called "Camelot" reforms of the 1960s. They signed up millions of minority members to the Democratic Party, and dominated first the national and later the individual state elections.

In the process, they broke American politics. "Camelot" also resulted in the great ideological divide, where the D's became liberal and the R's became conservative. This was across the board, although originally it was all about Civil Rights. American politics has been fundamentally broken since then. I know this, because I am old enough to remember when things worked better.

This is JFK's most enduring legacy, not the Moon landing or the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 07 Jul 2019, 01:10:02

lpetrich wrote:Let me get this straight. So the Republican Party is the party of ... aggression against the South


You left out the part about the Ds in the south being traitors who tried to secede from the union to preserve the cruel and inhuman practice of slavery, thereby starting the civil war.

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 07 Jul 2019, 06:28:56

While all the history is true I don’t see how it’s relevant to today.

One could also make disparaging remarks about the Republican Party, how it changed from A progressive stance to a big business stance after Teddy Roosevelt.

What is far more important is that today the GOALS of each party are similar.

Just to give one example: in the past 12 years each party has had a 2 year period when they held the House/Senate/Presidency. In those two periods neither party made substantial changes to the immigration laws.

Why? Because they like them the way they are. BOTH!
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 12:18:16

It is also worth noting that niether party has acted to heal the racial divides in this country, although both have had ample opportunity. For me personally, this was the biggest disappointment of the Obama presidency. As the first Black president, he had a unique opportunity to bring us togather, completely squandered.

In terms of environmental actions, Obama enjoyed a Congress dominated at various times by both the R's and the D's. He made very little progress in politicking changes in environmental legislation under either party's control. After he resorted to Executive Orders to accomplish his agenda, he made it easy for Trump to reverse such changes with more EO's. Another failure.

I am hard put to identify anything Obama was even good at, aside from playing golf. Unless you believe that being personable and well liked is an accomplishmant. But I have to point out that Trump has done far more in his fraction of one term than Obama did in two entire terms. Even though everybody pretty much dislikes and detests Trump, including me.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 12:42:10

Newfie wrote:
What is far more important is that today the GOALS of each party are similar......

Just to give one example: in the past 12 years each party has had a 2 year period when they held the House/Senate/Presidency. In those two periods neither party made substantial changes to the immigration laws.

Why? Because they like them the way they are. BOTH!


Thats basically true, but that is also why Trump is such an interesting and controversial president.

Trump is a true outsider. He was a D and then he switched to R, but Trump has never subscribed to the doctrine of either party. He basically did a hostile take-over of the R party after winning the nomination through the primary system.

IMHO Trump's policies of opposing free trade and trying to reduce illegal immigration are totally sincere. The poor man has tried about everything he could to reduce immigration, only to be blocked by both Ds and Rs and the courts.

Still, I give him credit for trying.

CHEERS!
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 13:19:41

Obama was just a shell, all presentation and and no substance. He didn't really know what he was doing, it was all about how things "sounded" and "appeared." Donald Trump is the opposite, there's something in his head and he knows what he is doing but the outer shell turns a lot of people off.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 13:33:47

Did anyone else see the news about Pelosies daughter doing a twitter that said Jeffery Epstein’s arrest would impact some Dem “faves”? She noted the victims need to have their rights exercised and that the investigation should go where ever it leads, D or R.

Besides the obvious (which gave?) what is interesting is that it insinuates she has some deep understanding of the players involved and is not impressed. I wonder exactly not only what is to be known but how widely it has been known within the D party upper ranks.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 17:39:48

Newfie wrote:Did anyone else see the news about Pelosies daughter doing a twitter that said Jeffery Epstein’s arrest would impact some Dem “faves”? She noted the victims need to have their rights exercised and that the investigation should go where ever it leads, D or R.

Besides the obvious (which gave?) what is interesting is that it insinuates she has some deep understanding of the players involved and is not impressed. I wonder exactly not only what is to be known but how widely it has been known within the D party upper ranks.


Its very well known that Bill Clinton regularly took trips with Mr. Epstein on his private jet, and the jet was serviced by a cadre of Mr. Epstein's very young female acquaintances. The nickname for Mr. Epstein's jet was "the Lolita Express." At last count Bill Clinton is know to have taken at least 26 flights on the Lolita Express.

Furthermore, some of those flights with former President Clinton went to Mr. Epsteins private island, know as Orgy Island, which was also serviced by more of Mr. Epstein's young female acquaintances. Perhaps Mr. Epstein and former President Clinton flew to Orgy Island to discuss Mr. Epstein's views on US foreign policy? Or perhaps Mr. CLinton's visits involved some hanky panky? I suspect this is what the younger Ms. Pelosi was referring to when she warned that some D "faves" might be implicated in this scandal.

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 20:03:08

Yeah, I can speculate along those lines as well. I’m looking for something more concrete.

And it still begs the question “What does Ms. Pelosi know and why does she know it and who else knows it?”

Why would she even make such a silly tweet and expose herself and comrades to these speculations and questions? What advantage did she gain from passing that information? The vanity that she is an insider?
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 08 Jul 2019, 22:10:47

Wikipedia is experiencing a revisionist wave where Clinton's links to Epstein are deleted and Trump's links are hyped up.

Never trust Wikipedia on anything controversial. If you want to look up science and mathematics topics, then it is not too bad.

Anyone who is surprised by the pedophilia of elites is out of touch. The Epstein story is basically the same as the pedophilia in the UK. The case of Jimmy Savile is the tip of the iceberg. He was protected by the higher ups for decades.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/49016 ... e-ring-BBC
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 09 Jul 2019, 07:32:21

I’m not quick to believe in such claims, that things are being rewritten. HOWEVER last year I came across just such an incident. I went back to reread a Snopes article on Trump that had some info on Bill and Hillarie's rides on the Lolita Express. I found the article but it had been scrubbed of any info on the Clintons. When I first read the article, during the campaign, I backed it up by reading many other sites that carries the same info. When I found Snopes had been altered I did a search for info on the flight logs and found very few mentions remained, and those that did were from radical sites.

So.....much as I hate to admit it.......I suspect you are correct, that they are parsing the online archives. That really sucks.

Here is one site still up.

https://yournews.com/2019/07/08/1082435 ... ivate-jet/
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 09 Jul 2019, 10:48:16

The entire internet is being edited in real time by multiple parties with multiple agendas. That is the reason I keep a CD-ROM archive of current events. Mine is the last century of National Geographic magazine with searchable index. As time passes, the online version and the offline record of print magazines are diverging.

If your only references are online sources, you are lost already. This Forum uses as a standard for credibility, "can you provide a verifiable link". That is entirely inadequate when the information is so mutable.

Those who are already disconnected, are the most protective of their virtual reality. Nobody wants to believe they already lost their way by believing online information. Even now, the majority who read my words will reject them, they are totally invested in an unreal version of the world.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 09 Jul 2019, 11:24:46

KaiserJeep wrote:If your only references are online sources, you are lost already. This Forum uses as a standard for credibility, "can you provide a verifiable link". That is entirely inadequate when the information is so mutable.

This pliability of the internet has always bothered me. We need objectivity.

I would object slightly, that the standard is generally "can you provide a CREDIBLE link?". For example, doomers are often criticized by non-doomers for acting like a random doomer blog is credible. Credible links will at least come from a credible source, and there should generally get some confirmation from some other credible sources. (You don't see major papers printing National Enquirer stuff as valid news stories).

But of course, if "they" are "in on it", then many key links can be changed, and the data can be gummed up.

OTOH, our understanding of the world changes over time, with science even changing our understanding of some historical events, for example. So just because it is in an old offline source doesn't make it gospel. It's more subtle than that.

Maybe libraries could be a good answer re archives, but whoops -- they're going digital, and digital versions of pretty much everything can be changed, so there's that.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 09 Jul 2019, 11:31:51

Newfie wrote:I’m not quick to believe in such claims, that things are being rewritten. HOWEVER last year I came across just such an incident. I went back to reread a Snopes article on Trump that had some info on Bill and Hillarie's rides on the Lolita Express. I found the article but it had been scrubbed of any info on the Clintons. When I first read the article, during the campaign, I backed it up by reading many other sites that carries the same info. When I found Snopes had been altered I did a search for info on the flight logs and found very few mentions remained, and those that did were from radical sites.

So.....much as I hate to admit it.......I suspect you are correct, that they are parsing the online archives. That really sucks.

Here is one site still up.

https://yournews.com/2019/07/08/1082435 ... ivate-jet/

Unfortunately re any single site like Snopes, it's pretty clear there is some bias at times in their outlook, re their stories. So such changes aren't really that surprising, IMO.

And given the vehemence of the political agenda of a large proportion of people, clearly they'll go to long lengths to promote that agenda, so changing references to suit their opinion isn't all that surprising, generally.

And given how the "news" is all about profit now, I wouldn't trust them to be iron clad in maintaining the integrity of their archives if enough green were flashed.

Government entities clearly have their own agendas, including survival, budgets, and on and on. I think the overall problem may be nearly intractable UNLESS you and get a huge majority of people with means to take it seriously. Annnnnnnnnnnnnd, sadly, good luck with that.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 09 Jul 2019, 14:59:59

My hypothesis would be that there are no credible online sources. TPTB own the Internet infrastructure just as they own most of everything else. That they can get you to pay them monthly for a feed of BS information is truly astonishing.

To most people, the Internet is a font of entertainment and amusement. Some believe that it is also educational. I have decided that you can use it for education only in comparison to offline sources. I chose the National Geographic because I got it as a gift, replacing two tons of hardcopy magazines. The weakness is that my source only covers some current affairs and ignores the rest. An offline copy of the Encyclopaedia Britannica would be better, but youi cannot buy such. The Britannica sells subscription access only, and brags of it's database of "evolving knowledge". That really took the wind out of my sails, as I would have considered the Britannica a "credible reference" as you put it.

However TPTB occasionally find themselves obligated to revise history. Such as covering the rear end of two new junior oligarchs named Bill and Hilary, who turned two terms in the White House into a personal fortune worth some tens of millions of dollars, and who are politically well connected in one of the two major political parties.

YES, this is happening right under your eyes, and most Forum members will still not believe it. Bill was never a paedophile, they will insist. Hillary was never a crook in quid-pro-quo politics, they will also insist. Just as Robert Byrd was never a KKK official when he was alive. He is again because nobody cares following his death, other then those few whose job it is to obscure online traces of Democrat depravity, bigotry, and criminal activity.

NO, the Republicans are not better. I am certain that both parties have what are best described as criminals as members and as leaders both. I am equally sure that the members of both are for the main part decent, honest, hardworking people. I see no basis to prefer one party over the other when it comes to morals and integrity either. Only those partially or entirely blinded by partisanship would.
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