Pops wrote:The top 1% captured created as much of the profit of growth as the bottom 80% over the last 40 years.
Written on a Dell computer with Microsoft software purchased from Walmart and delivered by UPS.connected to the internet by either AT&T land line or Dish network satellite. A little thanks would seem to be in order.Some think that is as it should be and we should be thankful to our overlords when they occasionally tinkle down on us.
Capitalism has always required regulation and the rule of law to maintain opportunity for all.But degrowth is no panacea. Piketty claimed that lower growth relative to the rate of return on capital is what drives inequality, R>G. His point was inequality was higher in the feudal era which had little growth. I'd guess that low or degrowth would require serious enforcement of anti-competition, anti-monopoly rules else Bezos and Walton and whatever corporate person gobble up all competition and become our new liege lords.
Ibon wrote:The story
In the centuries past hard work and toiling in the fields would occupy the vast majority of peoples time and a lot of mental energy as well. Church on Sunday or Saturday would be a day of rest and contemplation.
And then came the industrial revolution and technology that was supposed to open up time for leisure and freedom. But it seems like most folks chose the huge distraction of consumption which kept them in chains, in debt, so the promise of free time didn't happen. Because most people need something to fill the void. Consumption culture and going into debt are not just simple manipulations of advertising firms making you believe that you need this or that product. Consumption is largely a distraction to fill the void.
Truth be told the vast majority of humanity cannot endure freedom and not being chained and harnessed. If technology freed us from the toil of hard physical labor we replaced this with consumption culture that kept us still distracted and chained to being in debt and behind on mortgage payments etc. This is collectively self induced.
I bring up this psychological component in this discussion because the biggest challenge with degrowth and the rise of AI etc. is what do people then do with the void that ensues?
What will be the new chains people will invent to keep themselves distracted if there isn't a new Iphone being released every 10 months?
Ibon wrote:vtsnowedin wrote: I think not. The vast majority of Chinese and Indians between them half the worlds population would sure like to give freedom and sufficiency a good try.
They are chained and harnessed in their pursuit of "freedom"
Consumption culture is a promise of a big illusion. And there is a reason everyone is chasing it. It is the only monoculture option in town.
More and more I am coming to realize that there is no solution that brings along the mass of humanity.
Just small pockets of alternatives.
I am giving up on contemplating on the juggernaut of humanity as a unit that needs to solve its dilemma. It's hopeless. Focus on ones own alternative arrangements but forget about Kudzu Ape in his entirety.
vtsnowedin wrote:Pops wrote:The top 1% captured created as much of the profit of growth as the bottom 80% over the last 40 years.
onlooker wrote:Really V? None other than the IMF declares " Now, nearly 80 years later, Rogers’ quip is getting the punchline it deserves: A devastating new report from the International Monetary Fund has declared the idea of "trickle-down" economics to be as much a joke as he'd imagined."
https://psmag.com/economics/trickle-dow ... eed-a-joke
vtsnowedin wrote:I don't claim to know what a factory worker in China thinks about his prospects but I'm pretty sure he or she is glad they are not bent over in a rice paddy planting rice seedlings. .
KaiserJeep wrote:Perhaps this is a strange thing for an engineer to say, but half or more of the tech industry wealth arises from marketing and not technology itself. I have seen many Silicon Valley startups go bust not because they didn't have a genuine tech advance, but because they could not market it to the right customer base. I have also seen the new owner of those same patents make a fortune because he knew who to sell to. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were marketers, not engineers.
The same sort of thing will apply to Green Energy and EVs in the future - those who know how and where and when to sell will join the 1%.
Newfie wrote:
Ibon,
Have you read Bretrand Russel’s bit on idleness?
https://libcom.org/files/Bertrand%20Rus ... leness.pdf
onlooker wrote:To what Kaiser is saying and to the topic of this post. How do you market degrowth? Contraction is about less, more sells not less
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