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Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby careinke » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 04:29:45

Subjectivist wrote: We still get reports now andagain of 'honor killings' of women in America whose father/brother/husband suffered the insult of a woman who publically disobeyed them and was executed for the offense to their pride.

Just consider it retroactive birth control, who says abortion has to end a birth? Under sharia law, the father can also kill his son until he becomes a man.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 08:14:55

What you face in Europe is different that what we face in the USA. I don’t envy your position.

We have less cultural conflict with our southern brothers, for us it’s about controlling the population AND retaining some sense that we are an actual country, our sovereignty. I don’t think folks here get that yet, at least not enough. This current 4,000 person “March” may challenge that.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 08:58:47

@Newfie,
IMO white population of the USA is going to be phased out gradually and peacefully (already in age group 0-5 whites are not majority and in 2042 +/- 2years total number of whites is going to be below 50%. That is according to PEW Research).
Immigration can speed it up though...
European story will be much faster and violent business.

Meantime German women fallen in love with terrorists and apparently they don't mind to be raped either:
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/germa ... acdonalds/

White men have given their women a freedom only to find out that women will happily surrender it to brown men. Such a joke.

I remember few years ago discussions on this forum about so called *demographic transition*.
A story was that in developed countries ferilty will drop sufficiently for population to stabilize and fall later.
Now we can see how patently stupid such expectations were...
From what I observe, West is going to see *rat overrun* followed by magnificient population explosion, unfortunately by peoples of average IQ ~70-80, then there will be an infrastucture collapse due to lack of skill and at the end a monumental dieoff.

Chinese will most likely be the winners. It seems that marrying Chinese woman was the best bet of my life. My genes have left a sinking boat...
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 09:11:46

GASMON wrote:Quite simply we can't afford / allow it to continue. We (the west) NEED to help sort out there own countries - if at all possible.

Gas

Gas, replacement of you with brown peoples is *designed* by your elites.
It will continue up to conclusion where white Brits are extinct or irrelevant minority or until violent civil war overthrow your elites and invaders are expelled in immensely barbaric struggle, not seen in England after Norman conquest.
One way or another pictures won't be pretty.

In Poland we are watching with absolute disbelief, what is going on in Western Europe.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 10:45:04

Tying this to oil, in Europe the answer ought to be obvious. The influx of people is largely brought about by failure in their various home countries. That failure, in the Middle Eastern countries which have oil is largely a result of their response to the Export Land Model. In short, those people need to use more of their own oil in order to build more successful economies. Along the way, they need to change their form of government, in order to facilitate capitalist expansion. They need the freedom to take chances and the legal means to protect their successes. They need opportunity above oil revenue entitlements. Enough of the monarchies and strong man rulers. Set up a system where people can succeed as individuals because the resources are released for them to use, within a secular legal, banking and political system that is about individual rights above those of any tribe or sect. Such an engine in the Middle East would easily suck up the supply of immigrants who want to go to Europe. But then, that's our oil!

One of the greatest lessons the simple minded can ever learn is that privilege is everywhere. Knowing that will change your perspective. Privilege is inherent to the relationship that the West has with the Middle East. The West receives the privilege of buying their resources. Because privilege is as much of a formative influence as law, though much more easily changed, when the US knocked over Iraq there was no concern for developing a newly industrialized country that provided jobs not only to its people, but to all of the people that surrounded it. There was no concern for giving those people something that they didn't want to lose. That they would even figure was more noble to die for, in terms of what it meant not only to them but to their fellow man, than the choices they currently have. Nobody seems to want Syria to go that way. Everybody wants to instead install a form of state that caters to their form of privilege. Saudi Arabia kills anyone who might even hint at it and scatters their dismembered bodies for the animals to eat.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 11:37:13

evilgenius wrote:Tying this to oil, in Europe the answer ought to be obvious. The influx of people is largely brought about by failure in their various home countries. That failure, in the Middle Eastern countries which have oil is largely a result of their response to the Export Land Model. In short, those people need to use more of their own oil in order to build more successful economies. Along the way, they need to change their form of government, in order to facilitate capitalist expansion. They need the freedom to take chances and the legal means to protect their successes. They need opportunity above oil revenue entitlements. Enough of the monarchies and strong man rulers. Set up a system where people can succeed as individuals because the resources are released for them to use, within a secular legal and political system that is about individual rights above those of any tribe or sect. Such an engine in the Middle East would easily suck up the supply of immigrants who want to go to Europe. But then, that's our oil!

Evilgenius, you are so wrong here.
Problems of these peoples are mostly related to climate change and also to Americans and Europeans bombing them. They are also in severe overshoot already because of artificial propping life expectancy by various handouts from West and also (more recently) from China.
It is also quite delusional to expect that such peoples will build succesful capitalist economies.
There is a simple reason for it - average Arab or African is a *moron* or close to.
Moron is a person of IQ below 80.
So for example an IQ of average Syrian is 83,
Afghan 84
Sudanese 71
Lybian 83
Somali 68
These are the countries from where refugees are coming.
So how do you expect for such peoples to build successful economies competitive on global markets and develop personal freedoms?
They are plain *morons* after all or close to.
Do you know that it is unlikely for a person of IQ below 120 to become an useful engineer?
Some of them like Saudis with IQ of 84 average can import expertise from abroad, while oil last.
Once oil is gone all these "wonders of desert" there will fall apart in no time at all.
Source of IQ data:
https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country
The truth is that there is no hope for such nations to develop successful capitalist economy because there is a lack of necessary skill there and no intelectual potential at all to develop such a skill.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby dissident » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 14:46:27

The IQ index is concocted by and for morons. The list you cite is tendatious politically motivated tripe.

We have here the usual amateur ignorance. The reason why Africans "fail" this test is because they are uneducated and not because they do not have the intelligence. It is hard to find whites who are as uneducated as Africans so you get a huge sampling bias. They should conduct these precious IQ tests in Appalachia on Hill Billy's, but even there the ambient culture and mandatory education shift the Gaussian to higher IQ. The IQ test is some sort of country development or education level test and not an actual intelligence test.

What we call intelligence is mostly constructed after birth. The peak number of neurons in the brain occurs at age four. In primates the peak number occurs at birth and they have smaller brains (including the surface area of the advanced outer cortex). So culture (i.e. education and environment created by society) is prime to brain development for humans. IQ is not something humans are born with.

An interesting counter-example to the "low African IQ" meme is that African blacks do better as immigrants than American blacks. In fact, these African blacks are like the Asians who are always put on the IQ pedestal (they are culturally obsessed with education, more so than whites and we see the IQ reflecting this and not their supposed intrinsic intelligence).

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... n-the-u-s-

So the whole of Africa cannot be characterized as uneducated and lacking the necessary culture. The issue is lack of development and white Europeans have been responsible substantially for this through their colonial meddling.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 14:59:20

One thing the IQ tests do, however biased you may believe them to be, is to predict with a high degree of correlation the degree of financial success and financial security in a modern digital society.

OF COURSE there are other factors in play, including the cultural work ethic, the absorption of successful vs. unsuccessful behaviors, health status, and just plain luck. But all of these take a backseat to raw intelligence and it's accompanist, education in usefull and practical subjects.

If you want to make an IQ test part of the criteria for admission to the US, I am all for it. Another usefull criteria is that one have sufficient wealth to not burden the society one immigrates into. Many other countries have such financial means testing for prospective immigrants, the USA never has.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 15:02:54

dissident wrote:-snip-
So the whole of Africa cannot be characterized as uneducated and lacking the necessary culture. The issue is lack of development and white Europeans have been responsible substantially for this through their colonial meddling.


Not always true. The USA is a country that started as 13 European colonies, and they meddled a lot here.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 15:50:50

dissident wrote:The list you cite is tendatious politically motivated tripe.

Evidence for that?

We have here the usual amateur ignorance. The reason why Africans "fail" this test is because they are uneducated and not because they do not have the intelligence. It is hard to find whites who are as uneducated as Africans so you get a huge sampling bias.

Modern IQ tests are designed to be "culture neutral". Another feature of such designs is that *no prior knowledge* is required to solve questions within such tests.
Modern tests *do not* include matemathical or lingual questions either. They mostly relay on recognision of abstract patterns.

The IQ test is some sort of country development or education level test and not an actual intelligence test.

Any references to source research showing that?

What we call intelligence is mostly constructed after birth. The peak number of neurons in the brain occurs at age four. In primates the peak number occurs at birth and they have smaller brains (including the surface area of the advanced outer cortex). So culture (i.e. education and environment created by society) is prime to brain development for humans. IQ is not something humans are born with.

You are mistaken.
1. IQ is predominately related to genetic factors and not to nurturing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
2. Research on black kids who have been risen by white adopting parents (and hence educated to white standards) have shown that blacks are underperforming regardless and better nurturing cannot help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota ... tion_Study

An interesting counter-example to the "low African IQ" meme is that African blacks do better as immigrants than American blacks. In fact, these African blacks are like the Asians who are always put on the IQ pedestal (they are culturally obsessed with education, more so than whites and we see the IQ reflecting this and not their supposed intrinsic intelligence).

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... n-the-u-s-

Explanation:
1. There is a huge population in Nigeria (~300 mln?)
2. Very small percentage of population moving from Nigeria to US
3. So those who do are children of their elites as hardly anyone else can afford it.
4. Hence relatively good performance.
Of course this performance you notice is also causing an awful brain drain there - whoever is doing better go away from country of retards exacerbating already difficult situation there.

Regarding American Black migrants:
Why American would try hard to adapt somewhere, if from the day of birth s/he is brought up as self-entitled being?

Regarding Asians:
Mongolia is not a country widely associated with good education and an advanced lifestyle.
And yet an average IQ there is 98-101, depending on particular study. Equal or higher than US, regardless of study.

So the whole of Africa cannot be characterized as uneducated and lacking the necessary culture. The issue is lack of development and white Europeans have been responsible substantially for this through their colonial meddling.

Disagree.
Most of colonized in the past African coutries are still doing much better than these which was never colonized.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 21 Oct 2018, 23:28:25

There is one test that you can do. What are people like if you meet them alone in the woods? I don't carry a weapon, for one thing, so there is no fallback upon trusting in such a thing regarding this test. I have met plenty of people who have been carrying weapons when I met them, but since I don't carry one there has never been a confrontation around that.

It's tempting to resort to some sort of association with a thing that is larger than yourself in order to establish a kind of position relative to a stranger that imposes the idea of a weapon, in the sense of some company caring about me that would exact revenge for what they might do to me. You know, to declare one's part in a corporate enterprise taking place somewhere just out of sight. I don't do that either. I go into the woods as only myself, and I intentionally stay away from adopting a persona that suggests that I am anything else otherwise. I'm actually pretty formidable as an opponent to anyone who would challenge me, but that's not something that most people would pick up on upon such an encounter. And I don't make a thing of it.

I do tell the truth to people about my purpose, if they ask me. Mostly, I volunteer it because it makes good subject matter. I may be out prospecting, depending upon where I am, or just enjoying the woods for what they have intrinsically to offer. No matter what, IQ has nothing to do with what the encounter with another will be like. What does matter is each of our understanding of what civility is to us.

One could say that Muslims don't understand civility, but I think that would be wrong. They do understand civility, but on a very basic level. What one has to understand is that you can't carry the viewpoints based upon Western privilege with you when you meet a Muslim. Most of the time you will find that Muslims understand those, but you can't count on it. That's why I used the example of being in the woods. The woods strips privilege. I makes you confront whether you are any good either.

Of course, I steer clear of suggesting weakness. I don't want to invite a foul person to act according to their nature, thinking me vulnerable. I think I have met a few foul people, but which ones those were is beyond me, I have met a lot of people in the woods, and, just like in the city, determining who is truly foul is not as easy as one might think. You can't lay that trait upon someone you meet who is merely under a lot of stress or in a bad mood. And, because sociopaths are capable of understanding things rationally which they cannot feel, you can't even say that certain crazy people are going to be foul. It does help not to appear weak before them, though, as you have to know that how they will react to meeting you, in that case, is entirely up to randomness. Just don't turn your back upon a stranger.

I hope you can see that what I am saying, even if it is a worst case scenario, does not justify the exclusionary practices suggested. I will give you another example. At the gym there is a heavy bag. There is only one. I like to use it. When I do, I often will wail on the thing for at least half an hour, maybe more. I don't take many breaks. Sometimes other people will come around who want to use it too. I always figure that using it is a first come first served kind of thing. It doesn't matter if Anthony Joshua is visiting for the day, he doesn't get to walk up and use the bag instead of me when I have already begun my workout. Yes, I do consider the needs of others. If I sense that other people would like to use the bag I try to limit my usage to thirty minutes. I don't shorten it less than that because I have a right under this same line of thinking to a proper workout. Both people in any sort of meeting have the right to be considered. It doesn't matter if I am not as strong nor as fast as someone who comes up and wants the thing, I have an established position. All law is really about right-of-way. Do you see how IQ is irrelevant?
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 05:21:44

Well there is a fundamental question, do we as citizens of a country have a say inwhich people we allow into the country?

My understanding of both the USA and Germany is “they” want less educated immigrants that can be put into the mill to do menial tasks we high faulting Westerners don’t want to do. And if they pay taxes but don’t draw services so much the better. If we Westerners can’t keep the population growing with our own kin then for the purpose of expanding the economy “they” will just import the balance. Look at China reversing the 1 child policy.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby evilgenius » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 07:47:07

Newfie wrote:Well there is a fundamental question, do we as citizens of a country have a say inwhich people we allow into the country?

My understanding of both the USA and Germany is “they” want less educated immigrants that can be put into the mill to do menial tasks we high faulting Westerners don’t want to do. And if they pay taxes but don’t draw services so much the better. If we Westerners can’t keep the population growing with our own kin then for the purpose of expanding the economy “they” will just import the balance. Look at China reversing the 1 child policy.

I think that's a really good point. It speaks to what it means when the saying of Jesus is mentioned that "The love of money is the root of all evil." Previous to society's love affair with money, the state of resources had something to say about our limits. When everything becomes commoditized, the power of the markets will bring about a substitution. We should never forget that society works under the auspices of the evolutionary paradigm. It only changes because something more successful comes along. But society is composed of people. And success is determined according to supplicating them. Scientific fact or expert opinion doesn't matter. Evolution doesn't go where it should. It goes where the next success is coming from. When it comes to people, those successes are all about what they want. The only aspect of evolution that runs counter to that is when lack of resources puts a stop to a thing. Now that everything is commoditized, and can be substituted for, that ain't happening. Vile hatred is on the increase. Numb minded actions counter to reason are on the increase. It's what makes people happy.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 10:53:31

@evilgenius,
Our argument is about ability of given nation to build advanced society, or as *you* have called it "capitalist economy" or about ability of *average* member of other nation to integrate on the West and fruitfully contribute to civil life here, support himself etc.
What would happen "in the woods" is irrelevant in this context.
It is enough to say that an unfriendly adult chimp met in the woods, assuming you are unarmed, would prove to be a formidable adversary and would almost certainly defeat you with no effort at all.
The same hold true for an 12 year old child soldier of IQ 70 and armed with AK 47.
So yes, in the woods IQ might be of little relevance (albeit many H-G tribes often have surprisingly high one, perhaps due to extensive need of planning and complicated, tricky tasks during hunting).
However in western city IQ is an all important quality realiably indicating individual's prospects.
Regarding Islam and IQ - my believes are that embracement of Islam is causing IQ of affected nation to fall down. That is because Islam is discouraging thinking, is anticompetitive etc.
Too inteligent individuals in Islam are simply persecuted by the mob and they don't tend to do well.
We are going to see this effect on the West soon enough.

@Gas,
IQ argument is about average intelligence of nation, not about intelligence of a given individual.
You will meet many of Nigerians or Iraquis of IQ 130 and more. Average IQ of Nigerian or Iraqui is 85 but ~2% of them will get 115 and more - reasonably intelligent as per western standards.
Note: Every 15 points in IQ is 1 standard deviation - read about 68-95-99.7% rule or whatever they call it.
They are those who are getting education, are being sent abroad using very limited resources which their nations still have and then they are getting *stolen* by the West in a process known as *brain drain* to immense detriment of host nations.
This is yet another form of colonialism btw.
However during mass unselected immigration practiced on the West now for every 1 nice doctor you are going to get ~20 morons who will always rely on crime or/and welfare, few drug dealers, half a dozen of rapists etc.
Have seen Muslim ghettos in the UK during my 10 years long stay there. For some reason they are often called "Moss Side".
Never attempted to park car there and my wife was prompting "drive away from this s*it ASAP, don't look around".
Mind you, she was also scared while driving by council estates where mainly *white degenerados* were living, so not only Muslims are bad.
This was 20 years ago and I only wonder, how it looks now...

@Newfie,
I hear a lot of news about building high tech western economy heavy relying on ever accelerating AI development, technological singularity in the making, ever expanding networks of ultrabroadband internet conections, 5G networks enabling Internet of Things, highly robotized industrial environment, driverless cars, robot run supermarkets with no humans at till and ask Elon Musk and Kaiser Jeep about the rest.
Now tell me, what those low skill *morons* indiscriminately imported by corpo and other "them" are going to do here?

Regarding China - it is entirely different thing to abandon suicidal social policy and import millions of alien peoples unfit to society anyway.

Meantime Sweden is hunting for dangerous murderer:
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/swedi ... or-murder/
They have even published his photo... :-D :-D :-D
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 11:00:40

In the US we put a lot of them in jail, where they become the perfect consumer.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 11:19:30

Newfie wrote:Well there is a fundamental question, do we as citizens of a country have a say inwhich people we allow into the country?

My understanding of both the USA and Germany is “they” want less educated immigrants that can be put into the mill to do menial tasks we high faulting Westerners don’t want to do. And if they pay taxes but don’t draw services so much the better. If we Westerners can’t keep the population growing with our own kin then for the purpose of expanding the economy “they” will just import the balance. Look at China reversing the 1 child policy.


The problem is that (with domestic robots and other automation) there is no longer a need for for less educated workers. Exactly the opposite, we need people with at least user IT skills, and could really use skilled IT workers, we never have enough.

The other thing you need to understand is that although frequently described as "center right", Angela Merkel's politics are far to the left of both Trump and Putin. Her opposition is the German anti-immigration nationalists, even by US standards they are pretty far right - and authoritarian, the moderrn Nazi's.

Whether in the EU, the UK, or the USA, the flood of unskilled immigtants is a drain on the economy and a net losing proposition for the country. Anybody seeking to dispell that assertion is a practitioner of cognitive dissonance, this is a case where you listen to your head or your heart, and distrust anyone who argues for any middle ground.

As I said before, I FEEL for those people. But immigration will not save the country they come from, it will only destroy their destination country. They have generations of work to do in their country, they need to buckle down and start working on it. In the end, they may face the sacrifice our founding fathers made 242 years ago, “We Mutually Pledge To Each Other Our Lives, Our Fortunes, And Our Sacred Honor”.
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Re: Self annihilation of West by embracement of barbarism

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 15:55:31

Here are new intelligent, capable citizens coming to the West in millions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0V4639J330
But sometimes I wonder now, who is more stupid: Saudis or Swedes?
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/swedi ... -25-shots/
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