Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 31 Oct 2018, 07:51:00

No argument about any of what you said, Tanada. But most of you began your reasoning with an assumption that I believe to be fallacious. You assume that governments and politicians and legislation are GOOD things to have.

Aside from the bare minimum needed to get along peaceably, I disagree with that assumption. If you have ever seen the body of Federal legislation in printed form, you would understand my point. There are far too many laws, more than we can ever understand, much less enforce. Having more is not a goodness.

Every tin pot legislator wants his name on a piece of legislation. I would propose that we measure the worth of a legislator by how many laws he repeals and retires, instead.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6094
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 31 Oct 2018, 11:43:31

Here, here, I’ll second that! :-D
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13531
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 11:18:10

I don't agree at all. Half of Trump's blathering against one thing or another is to point to it and declare how out of control or bad it is, without providing any basic argument other than its size or complexity to prove his point. There are multitudes of conspiracy theorists in the mold of Alex Jones now who do the same. But civilization is complicated. It's not a breast to be suckled. It's food that has to be prepared. It takes an effort to engage with it and benefit from what it has to offer. When people don't know how to cook, then they lament how they long for the breast feeding days.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 11:59:56

Too many cooks spoil the stew.

KJ’s point I agreed with is that are far too many laws. Old out dated laws, new redundant laws, stupid and dangerous laws. So May laws that you are always bound to breaking some of them.

COLORADO: You have to get a permit to modify the weather. (In some states, it's legal to perform activities that create changes in the composition or behavior of the atmosphere.)
FLORIDA: People who own bars, restaurants, and other places where liquor is sold, may be fined up to $1,000 if they participate in or permit any contest of dwarf-tossing.
IDAHO: Cannibalism is strictly prohibited and punishable by up to 14 years in prison, except under "life-threatening conditions as the only apparent means of survival."
KENTUCKY: Every legislator, public officer, and lawyer must take an oath stating that they have not fought a duel with deadly weapons.
MARYLAND: Oral sex is illegal in Maryland — giving and receiving. A person found in violation is guilty of a misdemeanor, but the state is not known to enforce the law.
MICHIGAN: A statute on the books since 1931 makes adultery a felony — punishable by a maximum sentence of four years in prison and possibly a $5,000 fine.
NEBRASKA: No person who is afflicted with a sexually transmitted disease can marry.
NEW MEXICO: For many years, "idiots" could not vote in most elections. The word was historically used to describe someone mentally disabled or with an IQ below 30.

Etc.

I suggest all laws carry a 10 or 15 year automatic retirement. Then it has to be renewed or done away with.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13531
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 19:48:53

I have my doubts about you Newfie!!
Do you want to have a dwarf tossing contest at your wedding where your bride is going to give you syphilis on your wedding night after her <30 IQ has her vote for the Democrats?
Those laws seem silly but???
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9941
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 19:49:37

Newfie wrote:I suggest all laws carry a 10 or 15 year automatic retirement. Then it has to be renewed or done away with.


Sorry no renewals, if you allow that the legislature will just start each session with a statement that all laws due to expire are renewed for another 15 years and nothing fundamental will actually change. For example the city of Toledo puts on the ballot every 3 or 4 years a 'measure to extend the temporary tax for another term'. The 'temporary tax' was enacted back in the 1980's to plug a hole in the budget and was intended to expire automatically in four years unless renewed. Since then every time it comes around to expire they put it on the ballot as an extension and then campaign on how badly the government needs the money to meet vital services. So far they have managed to get it renewed every single time though once in a while the margin has been very small.

So from personal experience being forced to listen to the campaign ads and political speeches in the local media I know how politicians think. You bless them with the renewal option and they will pass all the same stupid laws they passed before and they will do blanket renewal without actually putting in any effort to revise or remove laws that don't really work as claimed.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15628
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 19:57:48

Trump will be doing two rallies Sunday and three on Monday.

Coming down to the wire now.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 20:25:45

Can we start a pool on Tuesday's outcome.
No money just bragging rights.
I'll start with the Senate goes to the GOP with only a one seat gain. For the house I think the Dems will gain but fall two seats short of taking control.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9941
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby mmasters » Sat 03 Nov 2018, 21:38:39

I predict a red wave will give the R's control of both the House and Senate.

Enough people have had a sample of what a "Trump future" will bring and they want more of it.
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 04:57:44

Republicans gain 3 seats in Senate but lose House narrowly.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 07:56:02

GASMON wrote:Trump seems to be out of touch with many of those that voted for him.

US midterms 2018 --- 'He said jobs were coming back': the Trump voters who feel cheated
‘I wanted to believe in Mr Trump,’ one manufacturing worker laid off after 30 years says. ‘This has been a slap in the face’


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... t-midterms

We have the same sort of lying politicians over here in the UK too.

Gas

That is a rare case not representing the totality of the facts.
Employers created 37,000 new manufacturing jobs in July, the Labor Department said Friday, the strongest gain since December and the third straight month in which factory job growth accelerated.

The July numbers may have been nudged upward a bit by vagaries in the data due to annual auto plant shutdowns, but the trend has been firm for the past year and a half. The 327,000 new jobs over the last year represent the best 12-month stretch in 23 years.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres ... 2018-08-03
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9941
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 08:51:55

In October 250,000 jobs were added and no sector of the economy lost jobs.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 11:05:29

I predict that the Democrats will fail to realize that they need to move to the right, not the left. Centrism has always been the power center that Democrats have ruled from. In order to do that, they need to engage in things like worker protections which apply to people outside of the particular circle addressed. Many supporting the Republican Party are doing so out of a belief that it serves their purposes much more than the Democratic Party does. But there is a sense of fairness that permeates the conversations. That sense of fairness is central and, therefore, doesn't have a lot of room for extensions out into splinter interests or special kind of people who want to be treated differently than the rest. That's just like saying that the rich somehow have more rights than the rest of us. The sense of fairness would, instead, like them to join in, not have them ask it to move over to them. There isn't much realization that the policies and practices of the Republicans work against that sense of fairness. The Democrats certainly are not pointing it out by attempting to appeal to this and that splinter group.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2723
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 12:10:44

Okay I will make my guess. the republicans will improve their majority in the Senate by 2+ seats and narrowly keep control of the House of Representatives.

In part this is due to the fact that the large majority of house seats are heavily weighted to one or the other major party so even when a representative is an open seat the party which previously held the seat will almost always continue to hold the seat. Even in those cases where the seat changes hands during the midterm election it normally returns to its biased control after a single term. This is by no means a single party phenomenon, the Democrats controlled state legislatures and set up the districts for many decades to maintain a D majority in the house regardless of outside factors. From the 1950's to the 1990's they were so effect they completely shut out R majorities in the house from taking place even when R's held the Presidency basically more than half the time during that period. In the 1990's this trend reversed somewhat as the R party came to represent more working class values and achieved control in more state legislatures and thus gained control of redistricting after each decennial census. They lost the house for two terms at the end of the Bush II and start of the Obama Presidencies but after that the redistricting ala 2001 asserted itself and R control was regained. Since then an entire additional round of redistricting took place in 2011 creating a greater bias to the R majority which gained back control in 2012 and has held it since then. I think the D party are a bunch of fools for not dragging Puerto Rico and its 7 seats into the House of Representatives when they had the chance in 2009. If they had taken that preemptive step then those seats would have been added to the redistribution in the 2010 census and presumably taken from states like Florida and Texas that trend R in their house membership. This presumes analysts are correct and the PR voters would select predominantly D reps for Congress.

In any case the failure to lead of the D party in 2007-2010 caused that opportunity to pass them by and the 2010 census redistricting done with 30 states under R control set the bar very high for them to not only take control of the House but to hold it for any substantial period. Even if they gain the majority this coming Tuesday they will have to demonstrate strong leadership skills to hold it in the 2020 Presidential election cycle results. If the 2020 Census redistricting follows the trends of 1990-2000 patterns then they will find themselves even less able to compete for House control.

IMO the solution to this situation would be to do away with 'districts' and elect all of a states Representatives 'at large'. For Texas or California this would mean the politicians who get the most votes would get seats no matter what party they were in and NOBODY would have a 'safe seat' that was noncompetitive. Of course that requires a constitutional amendment and the politicians most of whom are in 'safe seats' will never vote for that.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15628
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 19:36:23

I think the Ds will narrowly win the House. The R reaction will be civil, but the government will be frozen (not a bad thing).

I would prefer the R's to keep it all. Mostly for entertainment value. the D reaction would be epic. Their reaction should be to move right, but they will just double down and lose even more votes.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3736
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 19:42:20

The Ds blew their chance for a "blue wave" election by shamelessly grandstanding during the Kavanaugh SCOTUS nomination. Their attempt to destroy Kavanaugh's character by ginning up fake rape accusations was a new low in US politics. The Ds not only didn't stop Kavanaugh with all their mudslinging----they succeeded in re-energizing Trump voters. That means no blue wave.

I still expect the Ds to gain house seats and perhaps even to narrowly win control of the House, but the Rs will actually pick up seats in the Senate.

Thats important. It means that if Trump gets a chance to nominate a third SCOTUS justice the Rs will continue to have enough votes in the Senate to confirm without having to depend on the Ds.

Cheers!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 23011
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 11:27:37

It is election day tomorrow which means I have to go down to the Town hall today and set up the voting booths then go down and help count the votes after the polls close tomorrow night. By the time I get home the polls will be closing on the West coast and we will know who won or lost. And in a day or two all those nauseous political ads will mercifully go away. :)
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9941
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 08:16:19

In an attempt to put the issues in a broader perspective here is an interesting article. It is in the NYT and you only get so many free reads before there is a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/worl ... e=Homepage

It's not only in America where angry white men feel emasculated by women and immigrants.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 08:58:18

You meant to use the word illegals didn't you Ibon? For the sake of accuracy as to their status.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests