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President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 2

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 10:24:24

Newfie wrote:So Paul Ryan quit. Wants to spend more time with the family.

Or maaaybeee he wants to run against Trump?

Thoughts.
Well he would have about a year and a half to play with the kids and write a book or two along with some position papers. He says no right now but he wouldn't be the first to change his mind closer to the filing dates. It might come down to who else was running and how the polls in Iowa were doing.
And of course it might not be against Trump but against Pence.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 19:43:53

Paul Ryan has made enemies of the majority of Republican voters, running for national office rather than a small Congressional district is a non starter.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:21:38

Tanada wrote:Paul Ryan has made enemies of the majority of Republican voters, running for national office rather than a small Congressional district is a non starter.
You have an interesting point of view.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 18:30:55

Has anybody read "Killing the Deep State The Fight to Save President Trump" Impressions?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 20:34:01

Tanada wrote:Paul Ryan has made enemies of the majority of Republican voters, running for national office rather than a small Congressional district is a non starter.


Didn’t say he would be successful, just that he might try. Who knows if he is objective in his personal judgement.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 16:30:25

New Yorker article on Comey

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyor ... -trump/amp

Hardly a rousing endorsement.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 26 Apr 2018, 13:07:36

Between Trump and a devastated place
Undocumented immigrants reel from hurricanes, fires, and the Trump administration.
For undocumented immigrants, the Trump admin makes fires and hurricanes even tougher to deal with

https://grist.org/article/undocumented- ... istration/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 18 Jun 2018, 14:55:26

I think this Immigration policy has gone a little to far
While Children Are In Cages
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/06/18/wh ... -in-cages/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 18 Jun 2018, 16:05:58

Every prisoner in prison who has children must be set free so families are not separated
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Cog » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 10:51:33

onlooker wrote:I think this Immigration policy has gone a little to far
While Children Are In Cages
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/06/18/wh ... -in-cages/


So tell me what the left's solution here? Adults cross the border illegally with children.
Here are your options:

1) Turn all of them loose with a immigration hearing before a judge at some later point in time. Most illegals caught this way never show up for the hearing.

2) Put the parents in confinement and just put the little kids out on the street in America or transport them to home of origin and turn them loose there.

3) Put the kids into confinement along with the parents into an adult facility along with MS-13 members, rapists, murderers, etc.

Confining children with three hots and a cot in an air-conditioned facility is much better than the conditions they came from. When their parents get an immigration hearing then they can all go home or all stay depending on the ruling. What the Trump administration is doing is no different than what other administrations have done in the past. What is different is Trump is president and they are not.

How about this? Don't bring your children across the border, committing an illegal act, and things will go better for your kids.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Cog » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 11:41:15

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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 13:02:04

I asked a confirmed Leftie yesterday “So what’s your solution?”

Stunned look and crickets.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 11:38:42

Newfie wrote:I asked a confirmed Leftie yesterday “So what’s your solution?”

Stunned look and crickets.


Ah yes, the deer in the Headlights expression. When you operate purely on emotion getting outraged over an apparent injustice is easy peasy. Finding a rational way to improve the situation on the other had requires looking at it with an assessment of the facts, not judging how those realities make you feel.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 12:51:17

While, generically speaking you guys are right, I find this "solution" unacceptable. If somrone said lets poison the fresh water sources of countless areas around the wotrld to solve the population problem as a solution would we accept it? They"re are solutions and then they"re are acceptable solutions
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 12:55:21

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... tive-order
Donald Trump signs executive order to end family separations
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 13:39:46

Outlooker,

Then describe an acceptable solution for this situation.

I’ve of a definite opinion but it’s a loooong story.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby tita » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 13:52:42

Four years ago, at the apex of a strong wave of immigrants:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rants.html

The trick is to understand that whatever you do, you won't stop immigrants (or refugees) to try to flee the unsustainable conditions they're living in. The "legal" aspect is the last of their worries, in a state of desperation. And rich people don't have any problem to be a "legal" immigrant.

So, you have to deal with it. And the two administrations have diametric ways to deal with this problem:

- Obama's admistration idea was to speed up the process, sorting out as quickly as possible if immigrants were eligible as refugees, and deporting the others. Despite the harsh images of people in cages, the policy was to help them, find a solution for them... Of course, they received critics for inciting illegal immigration with the DACA program. But there wasn't so much critics as they tried to progress towards a way to deal with immigration.

- Trump's administration is to deter any kind of illegal immigration by building a wall and creating policies to discourage them to come. They keep immigrants in detention to make sure they don't flee in the nature, and so separate children as they can't keep them in detention. They also want to reduce the asylum rate.

It won't be long before Trump's administration reaches a wall (despite building one) here. Detention centers will be full, and this won't stop other immigrants to come. Build a wall, and immigrants will go through the sea. There is not much to do, outside deciding what their status is (asylum or deportation) and covering their basic needs (shelter and food).
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 14:36:21

This is a case where humanitarian wishes are opposed to the realities we face in an overcrowded world.

Understand that the detention centers were part of the Obama immigration policy. They exist at every legal entry point and they serve the very necessary purpose of protecting the USA from criminals, attempting entry to prey upon US citizens. Obama's concept of expedited processing would have worked, had the flow of refugees not been ever increasing until these facilities are overwhelmed. In the process of implementing this policy, Obama deported more criminals than any prior POTUS.

As unpopular as the concept is, the Wall is a necessary part of the solution. There is no point in processing immigrants when those you reject can enter this country again by illegal means.

Now understand this - the Obama policy that seperated children from their families was inherited by Trump, not created by him. Each detention facility was divided into two parts, adult and juvenile - both of which are severely overcrowded at this point, at all locations. Virtually all of the criminals were in the adult facility, the children were safe right up until the liberal outrage forced them to be merged into the adult detention population with their adult family members.

I have no doubt they will be harmed by this. I also have no doubt that Trump will be blamed when that happens.

There will come a time when armed guards and armored vehicles are needed all along the Wall. Because NOTHING that we do here can change the conditions producing the flow of refugees from the South. If nothing is done to stem the flow of immigrants, eventually the USA will enter collapse as well.

I believe we all understand the conundrum all too well. It is easy to criticize, hard to find a "good" solution. But a "bad" solution such as a Wall is better than no solution at all.

Santa Clara County where I live is awash in homeless, unemployed, and needy people. Increasing numbers of them speak only Spanish, Portugeuse, and various indigenous languages from South and Central America. There are people in our jails in this city who cannot find legal representation or interpreters, even though the courts at last count employed interpreters for 50+ languages. Crime is increasing, and the Catholic Church down on the corner does not even offer Mass in English any more. Local charities are overwhelmed.

I am moving away, hopefully soon. But if something is not done soon, this place will continue to degrade until it's like Chicago. I simply want to communicate to you that this country, as wealthy as it is, does not possess unlimited resources. We cannot help everyone down South who needs help.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 14:39:55

Tita and KJ,

Thank you for that.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 21 Jun 2018, 14:46:40

Newfie wrote:Outlooker,

Then describe an acceptable solution for this situation.

I’ve of a definite opinion but it’s a loooong story.


Have each state identify the jobs that are not able to be fulfilled by the local workforce. Both on the high end (software jobs) and especially the low end (meat processing, fruit pickers, retirement homes, live in domestic workers, etc.) Set up a guest worker visa program and allow immigrants in for seasonal or annual work contracts. Establish a selection process whereby some simply can get renewal of their contracts if wanted by employers or qualify for eventual residency if the selection criteria is met.

For those seeking asylum this is more tricky. Maybe set up internment camps in sparsely populated states like Montana and Wyoming and provide tax incentives to industries that set up factories there and set a low minimum wage say of $ 5 an hour to employ asylum seekers on 10 year contracts followed by a selection process to allow those who qualify residency. This solution would set up a low cost of labor market for US domestic products that currently are off shored to China and other places. We use the asylum seeker as low wage labor force to bring back some of these marginal industries like garments and other low products. This would also provide employment opportunities in mid and upper management to US citizens.

Would the political right accept this? Probably not

Would the political left accept this? Probably not
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