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Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 03:26:50

I think to cool the things down in the arctic (to save us all) human mankind could/should create a nuclear winter.

USA Russia China and India should declare climate emergency and put the big nukes in place.

Super computer have to calculate where and with how much megatons to strike to get enough dust into the atmosphere.


This is the last shot i think before its to late.

A arctic without summer is better than without winter (snow ice) ! M_B_S

-Radiated food is better than no food.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 06:02:02

Nomad to Kirk: "Non-sensical, your facts are uncoordinated".
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 06:09:58

No, he actually has a point. When I read about this what I got was modeling based upon the effects of Nagasaki and Hiroshima indicate a limited exchange of 100 war heads would set CC back 2 to 3 years. But there is dissenting opinion that modern cities would not produce enough smoke, those Japanese cities were mostly wood and don’t serve well as a model.

A full exchange may be “over kill” in more than one sense of the phrase.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 08:25:43

It may turn out to be the last best hope to stop runaway global warming/abrupt climate change. Which does not mean it is without drawbacks and risks
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 09:05:07

A propolactic nuclear war? That is idiocy, akin to killing a baby so it won't suffer from hunger.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 12:01:13

KaiserJeep wrote:A propolactic nuclear war? That is idiocy, akin to killing a baby so it won't suffer from hunger.


Al Bartlett's right-hand list. The cure starts to look just as bad as the disease.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Sys1 » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 13:16:26

Nuclear winter looks like a global dimming on steroids. But it will have many consequences :
1) Nobody will care about CO2 emissions any more.
2) CO2 concentration will increase faster and faster, which means we will have to create new nuclear winters every few years.
3) Lack of sun reaching ground means crops failure probability will increase.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 01 Aug 2018, 14:11:16

Hey reader / friends not War. Drop the bombs where the computer say to do so may be an arctic island as far north as possible.

It would be like a super volcano eruption to blow the island into the atmosphere.

Be smart stay cool do the job.

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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 17:19:49

This kind of insane geoengineering attempt is something I fear a heck of a lot more than living in a subtropical Northern Hemisphere.

People need to get a grip and stop listening to Guy MacPherseon. The earth does not exist in two states of roast everyone to death or the current state. there are a very broad number of steps on the climate staircases and NONE of them at 100% extinction guaranteed. In point of fact a large number of those conditions are easily tolerated by human beings which with little technology survive from the Arctic Ocean to the Equator, from the deserts of Namibia to the rain soaked island of Ireland.

Just because you personally do not wish to live in the semi-tropical hothouse world we are creating does not give you the right to destroy the planet in futile and short sighted attempts to avoid a mythical extinction level event.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 17:31:31

Remember when Carl Sagan said the Kuwaiti oil fires would result in a cool-down during the first Gulf War ? I do and it didn't happen. The idea of nuclear winter, caused by nuclear warfare is vastly overblown compared to the normal fires we have every year.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 20:02:05

Tanada wrote:This kind of insane geoengineering attempt is something I fear a heck of a lot more than living in a subtropical Northern Hemisphere.

People need to get a grip and stop listening to Guy MacPherseon. The earth does not exist in two states of roast everyone to death or the current state. there are a very broad number of steps on the climate staircases and NONE of them at 100% extinction guaranteed. In point of fact a large number of those conditions are easily tolerated by human beings which with little technology survive from the Arctic Ocean to the Equator, from the deserts of Namibia to the rain soaked island of Ireland.

Just because you personally do not wish to live in the semi-tropical hothouse world we are creating does not give you the right to destroy the planet in futile and short sighted attempts to avoid a mythical extinction level event.

Great post Tanada.

Or even the right to RISK potentially badly damaging the planet.

I was just going to say something like, "With all the games we've played trying to "fix" things by, for example, introducing non-native species to an area -- and it just creates a bigger problem re some unexpected side effect, how could anyone who is moderately well educated seriously think this is a good idea?"

After all, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby dissident » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 23:40:44

Nut job idea. The "nuclear winter" should be properly called "aerosol induced cooling". Dumping some aerosol layer over the polar caps is a very short lived solution since from the stratosphere to the troposphere the vertical transport is downard, i.e. the aerosol layer is going to get flushed out too fast. Then we have the show stopper detail that some aerosol layer in the polar regions is not going to cool the planet, but instead it it is likely to warm the polar caps since it will provide for infrared trapping for the duration of its existence.

Stick to the SO2 fix proposed before. It is actually based on understanding of the radiative transfer and the global transport of tracers. Injecting 10 million tons per year of SO2 at 30 km in the tropics will result in a halo of sulfate aerosol spreading towards both poles. This halo will have persistence since it will spend a significant amount of time moving from the equator to the poles before it gets flushed out into the troposphere where it will be rapidly removed. It will provide a significant cooling by reflecting visible and UV radiation from the Sun. But it requires ongoing annual injections with technology we do not have. (Airplanes and towers are not going to do it, large cannons will release vast amounts of "powder" gases that will kill off humanity or make warming worse).

And finally, as noted above, these fixes are retarded. We pretend there is no CO2 and greenhouse gas problem for as long as we keep applying the fix. But any break in the application and we have instant warming. There is no free lunch.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 00:57:05

When the arctic sea ice is gone our "Täglich Brot" is @ risk.

The average temperature over Europe Russia and USA/Canada will shot up 5 to 10 C in a very short time(<10years).

Winter will be spring , spring will be summer , summer will be desert => living in a desert.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1706/1706.05835.pdf

You understand the exponential function?

A peak oiler do so

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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 06:17:07

M_B_S wrote:When the arctic sea ice is gone our "Täglich Brot" is @ risk.

The average temperature over Europe Russia and USA/Canada will shot up 5 to 10 C in a very short time(<10years).

Winter will be spring , spring will be summer , summer will be desert => living in a desert.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1706/1706.05835.pdf

You understand the exponential function?

A peak oiler do so

M_B_S


Except that is not how the climate on a real planet functions. Yest in a semi-tropical hothouse future winter will be above freezing even in the darkest months, which you can call spring like if you wish, but that does not mean Spring will be hot and Summer desert conditions. All that extra warmth means extra ocean water evaporation rates which means increased rainfall, not desert levels of rainfall. That also means more dense cloud cover shading the lower atmosphere and surface from extreme solar radiation levels burning out your eyeballs and turning you into a blind roaming zombie.

Pick any part of the world where the winter temperatures stay above freezing all winter, places where tropical palm trees thrive like Georgia and Florida in the USA. That is what Germany is going to look like in 2100 if not sooner. Millions upon millions of people thrive in those climate zones today, the claim that everyone will die axiomatically because those zones return as far as 65 degrees north where they were 5 million ybp is not in any way related to science or physics or real world climate records.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 06:24:30

Since , we are on the topic, does anybody have any good ideas on how to reduce the acidification of the oceans?
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby Cog » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 09:17:54

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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 10:24:08

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf

Look p.11- 12 THE arctic tipping point.

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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 10:34:49

I have to say, we have already been Geoengineering conditions on this planet. In a broader sense, we have gone down the path of technological progress and it seems that technologies of different kinds offer us now the best opportunity to safeguard some measure of biodiversity and vitality on this planet and can also transform us in basic physiological and phychological ways to better cope with future circumstances. So, while the nuclear option does seem reckless, Dissident with his expertise offered another option which seems viable. We need to entertain any and all options to allow flexibility to respond to the demands of a changing and diminished planet and to the huge burden of our overpopulation.
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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 11:36:31

@onlooker

All options on the table please....;)

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ce-for-now


So how much of an effect do aerosols have? It turns out 23% of the warming caused by greenhouse gases was offset by the cooling from aerosols. Unfortunately, this isn’t good news. It means that if/when humans reduce our aerosol pollution, the warming in the Arctic and the ice loss there will be worse.

This puts us into a Faustian bargain. We want to reduce airborne pollution, like sulfur aerosols. But, if we do that, it makes the effects of greenhouse gas pollution worse.

The cooling effect of aerosols has been known for a long time. We see it when certain volcanoes erupt. Some volcanoes inject tons of aerosols into the stratosphere which temporarily block some sunlight for a few years. Human aerosols work in much the same way. They stay airborne for a few years, reflecting sunlight, before they are cleaned out of the atmosphere. This process has led some people to speculate that we could reverse global warming by just injecting pollution into the atmosphere. This short-sighted geo-engineering is replete with unintended risks....

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Re: Solution? Make a Nuclear Winter in the Arctic ?!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 04 Aug 2018, 06:50:35

How bloody stupid can people get? I don't know, but it definitely seems stupider & stupider is the trajectory.
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