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General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Yonnipun » Fri 22 Feb 2019, 14:46:35

One more problem I would like to point out which could cause a collapse. The end of the traditional family. Not so long ago almost any man could have a family if he had a job and provided for the family but nowadays things have changed. Woman do not need a provider any more . In social meda an average male is not attractive even if he has a job. There is a massive amount of sexually frustrated men out there. They choose to LDAR(lay down and rot) because of it.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 22 Feb 2019, 17:01:47

Yonnipun wrote:. They choose to LDAR(lay down and rot) because of it.


If your identity as a male is to be the provider and think that is sufficient in a relationship well you might as well just lay down and rot. Women rightfully demand some emotional sophistication out of their partner....
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 22 Feb 2019, 22:23:53

Ibon wrote:
Yonnipun wrote:. They choose to LDAR(lay down and rot) because of it.


If your identity as a male is to be the provider and think that is sufficient in a relationship well you might as well just lay down and rot. Women rightfully demand some emotional sophistication out of their partner....



This brings a whole new level to our discussions: What women want?

I still don't know. I hope the women know, because someone has to know.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 22 Feb 2019, 22:27:08

Yonnipun wrote:One more problem I would like to point out which could cause a collapse. The end of the traditional family. Not so long ago almost any man could have a family if he had a job and provided for the family but nowadays things have changed. Woman do not need a provider any more . In social meda an average male is not attractive even if he has a job. There is a massive amount of sexually frustrated men out there. They choose to LDAR(lay down and rot) because of it.

Yes, of course. Just like every geek who had trouble impressing women just always lies down and dies. You find them all over college campuses in the technical labs, for example. :roll:

Funny, it happened to me every year from age 6 to 18, until I met my long term girlfriend. Finding my corpse every year REALLY confused the authorities. :P

Why not learn something productive or get a life instead of regaling this site with such nonsense?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 02:30:29

Ibon wrote:Women rightfully demand some emotional sophistication out of their partner....


Um, yeah. You've been away from the US for too long.

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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 02:47:15

asg70 wrote:
Ibon wrote:Women rightfully demand some emotional sophistication out of their partner....


Um, yeah. You've been away from the US for too long.



Looking out of the lens of always seeing the least common denominator is an orientation that will yield weariness and sadness.

I came down to town to do a supply run and we are staying a hotel. First TV is a couple of months. I lasted about 5 minutes surfing through the channels and turned it off.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 03:20:59

Why not learn something productive or get a life instead of regaling this site with such nonsense?


It is not a nonsense. Getting sex is the most important thing for a male there could be. Haven t you heard about guys who shoot up schools? Most of them had no luck with girls and where bullied. There number of those males is constantly rising. 40% under 40 years old in germany are single. Why is that? Because woman make so much money on their own they do not want to settle down for a beta male. Also haven t you heard about the divorce rate which is over 50% and men get ablsolutely robbed. They lose half of their assets and have to pay alimony.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Cog » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 05:06:22

Generally speaking, women are more motivated to have and enjoy sex within a emotional relationship, whether it's a real relationship or imagined one. If you are a guy who wants to "have game" with women, you need to understand that.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:39:23

There's a lot of talk surrounding jobs of the future. Some people are saying that machines can't take over everything. They'll just take over the mundane. Except that machines are pretty good at most things sophisticated as well. Even the most inventive new human niche, the online click rated personality (where I think many people will seek refuge), can be done pretty well by machines. It is being said that certain highly specialized tasks will probably continue to be done by people. It's a sucker's game to get into most things, though. People will still work, but many fewer of them will.

I think the answer to the rise of artificial intelligence is to change the way ownership of large corporations is divided. I believe that classes of stocks should be set up to compete with each other. It should be rock, paper, scissors. No winner ever wins outright. Each class of stock simply has more say over a certain set of things pertaining to the welfare of a corporation. Those classes of stocks ought to represent the natural interests of those most likely to buy them, via what you can expect from the risk/return ration that underlies them, and they should affect other interests with their collective decisions. It's the right way to divide up the money that won't be paid to employees anymore.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:47:00

evilgenius wrote:I think the answer...


The answer has to start with fixing the political process. I don't get the sense that politicians are at all interested in calmly coming up with rational policy responses to the world's problems. The political process tends to reward those who are thinking solely about selfish short-term interests or are on the dole from big-business. I also don't think the general public has the mental skills or civic-mindedness to come up with solutions either. They merely move from outrage to outrage which tends to result in demagoguery.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 13:08:07

asg70 wrote:
evilgenius wrote:I think the answer...


The answer has to start with fixing the political process. I don't get the sense that politicians are at all interested in calmly coming up with rational policy responses to the world's problems. The political process tends to reward those who are thinking solely about selfish short-term interests or are on the dole from big-business. I also don't think the general public has the mental skills or civic-mindedness to come up with solutions either. They merely move from outrage to outrage which tends to result in demagoguery.


At least America is not a homogeneous society. A lot of people would dispute that, saying that American society was built by and for white men, but I think that's wrong. The freedom that Americans have enjoyed has always segmented society into groups which compete with one another. Innovation is the most defining characteristic of this competition, not racial dominance. Americans have rewarded innovation above privilege. American classes are mostly monetary in nature. Privilege does play some role, but the best it has ever been able to achieve is to install perfunctory players who dominate only as well as civil servants within an economy. Their role changes with economic and social development, and is economically vulnerable to machines. The best result is a symbiosis, not a top down dominance by those who've been the best innovators. That's always been best because no matter what the winners have done to make innovativeness heritable, it has still come mostly out of nowhere.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 17:14:39

asg70 wrote:
evilgenius wrote:I think the answer...


The answer has to start with fixing the political process. I don't get the sense that politicians are at all interested in calmly coming up with rational policy responses to the world's problems. The political process tends to reward those who are thinking solely about selfish short-term interests or are on the dole from big-business. I also don't think the general public has the mental skills or civic-mindedness to come up with solutions either. They merely move from outrage to outrage which tends to result in demagoguery.


So what do you propose? What is one to do?
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 17:17:18

Christian system of thoughts and values was a work ethic


And so was a traditional family. Being a provider is not sufficient for having a family anymore. The amount of young males who have no girfriend is rising day by day. What could possibly motivate those guys to work their butts off? Certainly not a lecture by a white collar who has never done a physical work in his life.

they are also not willing to work at manual labor, an assembly line


Why should anyone today in 2019 be working on some s..t job that takes a toll on your health when machines could do the job better. Is not it a programming question nowadays? Young people today are concerned about their health and will not sacrifice it for a penny breathing in toxic fumes and dust and dying too young from cancer or smth.

I still dislike the term A.I., because what computers have that people do not have is not intelligence. The real problem is that lots of people have way too little intelligence themselves.


One thing about smart people I dislike is...

I
f you are not gonna get a STEM degree, and also not gonna apprentice in some blue collar job, then go live in your parents basement, just don't reproduce is all I ask.


They would go full hitler if they got a chance. If I were Iq 120+ then I would go also but unfortunately I am not.
Also if a guy manages to reproduce living in the parents basement then he must be a genius in some way and he has a right to reproduce. After all women are those who decide who have a right to reproduce or not and in today s society we can say they are better in it than hitler ever was.

If your identity as a male is to be the provider and think that is sufficient in a relationship well you might as well just lay down and rot. Women rightfully demand some emotional sophistication out of their partner....


You my friend are so bluepilled... Most men in relationships are providers. If a better provider comes then by-by. Divorce rate is over 50%. Women will leave with half the money and men have to pay alimony for decades. Marriage is a business project for women nowadays. Many of those guys end up homeless in the street. That is also a reason why many men are choosing to go on their own way ( MGTOW ). Always remember - she is not yours, it is just your turn. Many men unfortunately think that there is such thing as love and they go crazy when the woman leaves for a better one. Many get even suicidial. The thing is - women are pragmatics pretending to be romantics, men are romantics pretending to be pragmatics.

This brings a whole new level to our discussions: What women want?

I still don't know. I hope the women know, because someone has to know.


When they are young and choosing a mate they want absolutely top genetics. When they hit a wall they will settle down. But they will never love their husband. They do it for the money just like monkeys do change food for sex.

Generally speaking, women are more motivated to have and enjoy sex within a emotional relationship, whether it's a real relationship or imagined one. If you are a guy who wants to "have game" with women, you need to understand that.


It is much simpler. Whether you are attractive or not. I am a male and from my perspective I find almost any woman attractive. M(f)ake up makes wonders. But from woman s perspective only very small percent of males are attractive. Tall , muscular, full head of hair , robust bone stucture etc etc. I would not blame them for that. If I were a woman I would do that also. Men who are not attractive get woman too by providing but as I said the woman can not love the man.When it comes to emotions then actually I would say never show your emotions to your woman. Never say you love her etc. It makes you weak in her eyes and no woman wants a weak man. They want to feel protected.

Except that machines are pretty good at most things sophisticated as well.


Yep , it should be a simple programming question. There is a massive amount of civil cervants who are not neto tax payers whose jobs should be automized. Teachers, doctors etc who are simple pen pushers should be automized.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 18:40:10

I totally disagree with Kaiser, most certainly a full scale Civilization Collapse will occur. It is looking more and more likely with each passing day. Remember it is converging catastrophes and discontinuities we are looking at. Unlike past times, we have overshot the carrying capacity of the ENTIRE earth. Physics and immutable laws inform us that a finite planet cannot continue to support an ever expanding mass of humans and their commensurate impact on the planet. The Environment is being severely degraded and depleted with regard to sustaining current human population levels. We are also stuck with a Socio-political/economic system that seems unresponsive to the level of threat we face. We have a misinformed and underinformed populace partly due to ignorance but also propaganda. Civilization cannot remain viable when the environment and its life giving functions begins to seriously falter. Certainly not a Civilization with so many people and so complex. Die offs, resource scarcity and subsequent conflict, Pandemics all will severely strain the viability and cohesion of human ecosystems and societies. It is also ironic that while this is a peak oil site, it is appearing more and more that the tipping point will be environmental as people succumb directly to environmental catastrophe or indirectly as Economics and prices reflect an environment that can no longer sustain so many humans. And finally to this appeal to technology is pure hubris. In societies reeling from all kinds of problems of varying intensity, how can one expect that the resources like money, time, expertise, manpower, energy and cooperation be marshalled under these circumstances. Highly unlikey.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 19:03:55

The existence of a marketplace for oil pretty much ensures that collapse will not occur here. Recall that the poorer parts of the world are in collapse now. As oil gets more expensive, the poorer countries suffer first, expensive oil means not enough food. But in places like Europe or the USA, where people spend less than 10% of their incomes on food, nobody is starving and they won't be for a long time.

There is also a technological solution for just about any resource in short supply, as long as energy is relatively cheap.

Collapse is just NOT HAPPENING, for a long, long time.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 19:24:34

Onlooker, KaiserJeep has at least one time assured us that collapse wont happen in HIS lifetime. He was 66 years old back then if I remember correctly.
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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 20:29:37

Lots of interesting points to note.

(Regards Uber - Evil's post- nobody drives for rideshare long term, or almost nobody, it's shit money & relies on naïve first business owner driver wannabes & part timers who are mostly students. 90% don't last 2 years.)

The one trick pony of globalization has a ways to run yet. Wages are flat after inflation all over the developed world for around 20 years. Over the previous 20 years they doubled or tripled. Wages in the developing world have on average quadrupled in the last 20 years, having barely doubled in the previous 20. Still about half the world's population have no effective economic opportunity, sans migration.

Meanwhile, as Yonnipun so refreshingly elaborates, there is a developing fertility problem pretty much all over the developed world, & even the emerging super power China- mostly failing at restoring above replacement birth rate after decades of the one child policy. (I totally concur on the primary impact of economic freedom for women in much of the developed world. I am one of many here including Ibon, who went to the Philippines, where there is virtually no social security, where traditional family structures still form the basis of survival for most people- to find the mothers of our children.)

What I'm seeing is as I've thought for decades, a gradual levelling of the baseline economic conditions. The only source of economic growth left is moving people out of utter poverty towards whatever the baseline turns out to be at the theoretical point of equilibrium (of course will never be reached- like off the page perspective points for architectural design drawing.)

Psychology plays a huge part in how the masses swallow their slop. Apparently by playing people's minds with numbers, convincing them they will be wealthy if they invest a few decades of work to pay off a place to live, convenient to their work stations- subdues serious dissent. Bread, circus & real estate speculation.

Climate change is the elephant in the room. When the major ice shelfs on the Antarctic coast suddenly float away & sea levels rise many meters, the impact of this alone will be enough to cause global mayhem.

Wondering when KJ went from needing a space doughnut to hunkering down on poor old planet earth with the family?
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The Inconvenient Truth of Modern Civilization’s Inevitable C

Unread postby xraymike79 » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 22:24:04

It's like the diehard smoker who keeps puffing away through a tracheostomy while spitting up blood and loosing weight. "I don't have cancer yet, so why live in fear with the anticipation that I might die from it?" It would help if they just stopped smoking but they can't:

Today’s global consumption of fossil fuels now stands at roughly five times what it was in the 1950s, and one-and-half times that of the 1980s when the science of global warming had already been confirmed and accepted by governments with the implication that there was an urgent need to act. Tomes of scientific studies have been logged in the last several decades documenting the deteriorating biospheric health, yet nothing substantive has been done to curtail it. More CO2 has been emitted since the inception of the UN Climate Change Convention in 1992 than in all of human history. CO2 emissions are 55% higher today than in 1990. Despite 20 international conferences on fossil fuel use reduction and an international treaty that entered into force in 1994, manmade greenhouse gases have risen inexorably. If it has not dawned on you by now, our economic and political systems are ill-equipped to deal with this existential threat. Existing international agreements are toothless because they have no verification or enforcement and do not require anything remotely close to what is needed to avoid catastrophe. The 20 warmest years on record have been in the past 22 years, with the top four in the past four years, according to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO). Ice loss from Antarctica has sextupled since the 1970s and Greenland’s pace of ice loss has increased fourfold since 2003. The Arctic ocean has lost 95% of its old ice and total volume of ice in September, the lowest ice month of the year, has declined by 78% between 1979 and 2012. With grim implications for the future, Earth’s air conditioner —the cryosphere— is melting away...

https://collapseofindustrialcivilizatio ... -collapse/
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Re: The Inconvenient Truth of Modern Civilization’s Inevitab

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 22:30:35

Doomer stuff!!! We miss the fast crash doomers, they all died, or claimed stupid things that never happened. Ruppert was a favorite...hey...wasn't XRay Mike one of his sycophants or something? So this might be the GOOD stupid doom stuff then!
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Re: The Inconvenient Truth of Modern Civilization’s Inevitab

Unread postby xraymike79 » Sat 23 Feb 2019, 22:33:31

AdamB wrote:Doomer stuff!!! We miss the fast crash doomers, they all died, or claimed stupid things that never happened. Ruppert was a favorite...hey...wasn't XRay Mike one of his sycophants or something? So this might be the GOOD stupid doom stuff then!


Actually reading it and posting a halfway intelligent response would be helpful. I did not understand a word you said.
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