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Countdown To Impeachment

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

how long before Trump is impeached?

Before swearing in
0
No votes
Before 100 days into term
0
No votes
Before 1 year
8
21%
Before 2018 mid-terms
5
13%
Before 2020 election
5
13%
hell freezes over
21
54%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 17:23:40

jedrider wrote:The House appears to have enough impeachable evidence already. The only question is will the Senate eventually abandon being a toady to Trump and redevelop an identity of their own? If Trump is deposed, then who would take his place? Is it worth replacing a lame duck President?


Nikki Haley vs Elizabeth Warren...

Trump has so alienated women swing voters with his misogyny that putting a republican woman of color on the ballot against Elizabeth Warren would be an interesting fight ....... on the other hand many of Trump's base would be so pissed off they would refuse to vote.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 18:21:34

Trump is doing a big media buy with new TV ads designed to turn the table on the Ds and blame them for wasting everyone's time with impeachment instead of doing their job and working with Trump to pass legislation. I saw one during a football game on sunday.....it seemed pretty effective to me, but then I already think the Ds have impeachment on their brain. I'm very disappointed the Ds have already devoted 3 years to howling for Trump's impeachment and now they are going to go for four. What a terrible waste of time.

Both the Ds and Rs are fundraising off impeachment now. Trump is doing better.

That means Trump is spending 10 million on the anti-D ads, while the Ds are only spending 3 million on ads calling for Trump's impeachment.

democrats-are-getting-torched-by-trump-in-impeachment-ad-wars

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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 18:52:54

Plantagenet wrote:What a terrible waste of time.


Only a waste of time if one thought the Democrats agreed with Trump on anything, which they don't.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 20:56:08

jedrider wrote:Only a waste of time if one thought the Democrats agreed with Trump on anything, which they don't.


There used to be this thing called "compromise," which involved each side giving in a little bit in order to get the nation's business done. Of course, that was back in less partisan times when the Ds were more flexible.

Image

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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 20:57:18

Just gotta laugh, we're right back to "I'm rubber and you're glue"

Trump mounted this new "anti-corruption" defense in a series of tweets, campaign commercials and at an impromptu gaggle with reporters Friday morning on the White House lawn, where he repeated the word "corruption" 29 times in 23 minutes.


He thinks you guys, his blind supporters, are dumb as a bag of hammers.
Don't you realize he is talking to you?
That it is YOU he's targeting, not the libtards?
That it is YOUR party he's tearing apart?
How long are you going to demean yourselves?

One question popped this particular con:
But all it took was one question from CNBC’s Eamon Javers to destroy his talking point.

“Have you asked foreign leaders for any corruption investigations that don’t involve your political opponents?” Javers asked.

The answer, it quickly became apparent, was no — even if Trump didn’t want to admit it.

“You know, we would have to look, but I tell you — what I ask for, and what I always will ask for, is anything having to do with corruption with respect to our country,” Trump said, dissembling. “If a foreign country can help us with respect to corruption, and corruption probes — I don’t care if it’s Biden or anybody else.”

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1180 ... 72/video/1

BTW
Within the State Department, the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs is tasked with fighting international corruption. Trump now says he is ramping up the fight against foreign corruption, but his State Department is trying to reduce funding for these efforts. They spent $5 million in 2018 but only requested $3 million for 2019 and again for 2020.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/06/politics ... index.html
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 05:30:54

Ibon wrote:
jedrider wrote:The House appears to have enough impeachable evidence already. The only question is will the Senate eventually abandon being a toady to Trump and redevelop an identity of their own? If Trump is deposed, then who would take his place? Is it worth replacing a lame duck President?


Nikki Haley vs Elizabeth Warren...

Trump has so alienated women swing voters with his misogyny that putting a republican woman of color on the ballot against Elizabeth Warren would be an interesting fight ....... on the other hand many of Trump's base would be so pissed off they would refuse to vote.


Yeah, I can see that match up happening. Haley would loose some votes but may well pick up enough centrists to offset. Would be an interesting match up.

Still, neither one addresses my requirements so for me it’s still “Meh!”
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 05:33:10

Plantagenet wrote:
jedrider wrote:Only a waste of time if one thought the Democrats agreed with Trump on anything, which they don't.


There used to be this thing called "compromise," which involved each side giving in a little bit in order to get the nation's business done. Of course, that was back in less partisan times when the Ds were more flexible.

Image

Cheers!


Plant, BOTH sides need to compromise. The R’s have shown their fair share of acrimony over recent administrations. Remember Clinton impeachment?
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 09:51:11

So is impeaching trump the thing that causes Rs to become all bipartisany and driven by fairness? LOL

Today trump is obstructing congress. He says because the congress is "compromised." He's not even claiming executive privilege anymore, just that he can do whatever and the fools will continue to back him. We'll see, the fools constituted only a little more than 25% of eligible voters in 2016.

Just like his taxes, the downside of the truth must be worse than the consequence of obstruction. we'll see

WaPo poll is 58% to 38% to impeach. In July it was the opposite.

538 shows a 10 point jump in "independents" and Ds supporting impeachment, 80% / 44% / 14% and most of the individual polls are on the upside rather than the down so the average is likely rising. A week of continued obstruction won't help I'm thinking.

although he himself assures us of his "great and unmatched wisdom"
seriously, a grown man said that to the world.
amazing.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 11:28:17

Today trump is obstructing congress. He says because the congress is "compromised." He's not even claiming executive privilege anymore, just that he can do whatever and the fools will continue to back him. We'll see, the fools constituted only a little more than 25% of eligible voters in 2016.


you'll have to explain that line of nonsensical reasoning further. The popular vote had Trump at 46% and Clinton at 48% whereas the electoral vote had Trump at 57% and Clinton at 43%.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 11:42:45

250m eligible trump got 60m

Actually it seems like trumps counting on building his base of uninformed voters by appealing to exactly those people with his every tweet. Who else to appeal to with his burn it all down message than the people who have never watched the news, read a book, or paid attention?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 11:49:25

Almost time for a retrospective: The Trump Presidency

Book publishers are licking their chops already is my guess.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 15:16:41

250m eligible trump got 60m


which means based on the actual election results (it doesn't matter who didn't show up for the polls) Trump got 60MM and Hilary got 62MM or by your convolute reasoning Hilary got 24.8% of the eligible people voting whereas Trump got 24% which isn't a big difference no matter how you look at it.
In reality, it doesn't matter who didn't show up to vote as they don't count and you have no idea how many would have voted for Hilary if they did show up.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 15:57:41

rockdoc123 wrote:In reality, it doesn't matter who didn't show up to vote as they don't count and you have no idea how many would have voted for Hilary if they did show up.

Hillary?
If you weren't so intent on grinding your ax and showing how smart you are you'd be more interesting to talk to, and you might actually learn something new.

The 50% who didn't vote are who trump will spend part of his huge campaign fund on.

To do it, [flip blue states] the Trump campaign is targeting states that have high rates of support for Trump among Republicans. The bet is that they can ramp up turnout and swamp the votes in traditional Democratic strongholds. That strategy hinges on developing accurate data to find would-be Trump voters and using the months-long head start over a still-unknown Democratic opponent to build a ground operation that ensures those voters are registered and get to the polls. It also plays to Trump’s strength for whipping up controversies that energize his supporters.

https://time.com/5669093/trump-election ... ates-2020/
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:04:44

Pops and the other Dems are in full panic mode on the thought that Trump might win reelection. Lacking confidence they can actually win in 2020, has brought them to this futile effort to remove him by other means.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:18:26

Cog,

Have you seen any polls on how the American Public is reacting to this impeachment talk?
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:18:51

Cog,

Have you seen any polls on how the American Public is reacting to this impeachment talk?
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:20:59

The White House just sent a letter to the House claiming the impeachment inquiry is unconstitutional and they won't comply because there hasn't been a vote to have an impeachment inquiry.

impeachment-inquiry-white-house-not-comply-

I guess the White House thinks that the Congress should actually vote on things rather then just holding press conferences.

I'm sure Queen Nancy will set them straight. She don't need no stinking votes....she is Queen Nancy.

Anyway, this will now start winding its way towards the Supreme Court.

Its an interesting question....

Can one political party just declare that the House is holding an impeachment inquiry without the House ever voting to hold an impeachment inquiry??

Or if Queen Nancy so decrees, is that enough?

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Queen Nancy hath decreed there shall be an impeachment inquiry. Let the heralds go forth and tell the people of her royal decree....

Cheers!
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:41:04

Hillary?
If you weren't so intent on grinding your ax and showing how smart you are you'd be more interesting to talk to, and you might actually learn something new.


yeah, well apparently math isn't your forte and as to "grinding you ax"...pot meet kettle. My point was the people who didn't vote are targets of both parties. You seem to imply that somehow he had little support during the election as there was only 25% of eligible voters who backed him....but it was almost the same number as backed his opponent and electoral votes were higher. Those non-voters might show up or they might not, there is no reason to believe that the vote split amongst those individuals would be statistically different than amongst those who voted. But apparently you still have this view that the only people who voted for Trump were all in the "basket of deplorables".
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 16:59:54

The constitution says the house sets the rules.
As I understand it, in nixon and clinton the committees didn't have subpoena power so needed a house vote to proceed. The rules have since been changed, don't know when...

Oh, lookie here:
Democratic lawmakers are harshly criticizing House Republicans for altering committee rules governing how chairmen can subpoena witnesses and documents.

In a letter shared with POLITICO, the Democrats slams the GOP conference for changing rules on a number of House committees to make it easier for Republicans to subpoena witnesses without consultation or approval from minority lawmakers - an effort that came as Republicans are preparing aggressive oversight efforts for President Barack Obama’s final two years in office.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Pops » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 18:11:00

This is good
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... et/599527/
Last Thursday, Donald Trump said something that, on its face, seemed inexplicably self-defeating. Already under attack for having asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden, he publicly asked China to do the same. This time there was no whistle-blower forcing Trump’s hand. Having already transgressed the once-sacrosanct principle that foreign powers shouldn’t meddle in American elections, Trump—for no apparent reason—brazenly violated it again.

And yet, Trump’s China remarks don’t appear to have hurt him much. The majority of Republican voters and politicians still oppose his impeachment. His China comments may even prove politically shrewd. Research into the psychology of secrecy and confidence helps explain why.

In January 2016, Trump infamously declared, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” The statement was widely interpreted as a commentary on the loyalty of Trump’s voters. But it can also be understood as a commentary on the value of brazenness—of acting publicly rather than furtively and confidently rather than bashfully. It’s a value academics have confirmed time and again.

In 2013, three researchers at the University of Colorado at Boulder—Mark Travers, Leaf Van Boven, and Charles Judd—published a paper in the journal Political Psychology entitled “The Secrecy Heuristic.” They gave students two documents, one from the National Security Council and one from the State Department. Half the students were told that the NSC document was classified and that the State Department document was public. Half were told the reverse. And although the classified and nonclassified documents were exactly the same, the students gave more weight to the one they thought was secret. The researchers’ conclusion: There is a secrecy “heuristic”—a mental shortcut that helps people make judgments. “People weigh secret information more heavily than public information when making decisions,” they wrote. A 2004 dissertation on jury behavior found a similar tendency. When judges told jurors to disregard certain information—once it was deemed secret—the jurors gave it more weight.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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