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Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 02 Sep 2017, 15:01:16

dohboi wrote:Ah, I didn't see that Newf article on the last page.

Still, I bet the vast majority would be happy to put the war and conflict behind them.

I serve a former general from the Somali army every day. I have zero fear of him.

But I guess some people are more full of fear than others.

That's where most hate comes from, after all.

These "refugees" have been given free passage out of an IS enclave, there is a real risk that they will regroup. Your Somali general has left it all behind, that is where there is a big difference.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Sat 02 Sep 2017, 15:56:21

These ISIS fighters and family were given free passage out of Syria by Assad, but Iraq and the USA do not want them going back into Iraq for obvious reasons. The Iraqi's just finished wiping ISIS out of their major cities.

I'll be merciful here, although ISIS deserves none. Give them 24 hours to surrender and if they do not sent them all to paradise. Its what they live for anyway.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dissident » Sat 02 Sep 2017, 20:08:05

It is rather clear that SAA is doing most of the fighting against Daesh. The SDF, YPG, etc zone has seen basically zero front line movement. If Syria's government decides to deal with Daesh militants to move them to the Daesh controlled zone, then that is its prerogative and the US has zero say in the matter. The US is an invader force in Syria and all the posing about fighting Daesh has been a grotesque farce since day one. Like the BS excuse that the massive Daesh oil convoys were not bombed to save the environment. Yeah, right, after Pancevo like the US has any credibility when it comes to bombing oil tanks.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Sat 02 Sep 2017, 21:39:27

When you are the dominant military in the area, that is all the say-so you need. The USA doesn't particularly care where they go, as long as it isn't Iraq. The US military has already destroyed the convoy's accompanying armored vehicles. So yeah we are going to make this Syria's problem because it is.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Sys1 » Sun 03 Sep 2017, 05:18:39

I'm ok with killing climate refugees as lons as I won't be a refugee myself. :twisted:
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 03 Sep 2017, 10:50:19

Nicely put!!
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 03 Sep 2017, 11:15:21

Sys1 wrote:I'm ok with killing climate refugees as lons as I won't be a refugee myself. :twisted:


Me too. But there is no need to do that.

Australia shows you don't have to shoot climate refugees to maintain control of your borders. All you have to do is deter the refugees by sending those you rescue back to their source country or to a third country rather than bringing them back to Australia and letting them go. Australia picks up refugees and sends them to camps away from Australia. The result is that fewer refugees attempt the crossing, and fewer deaths at sea occur.

In contrast, by rescuing the refugees and then transporting them to Greece, Italy and Spain and then releasing them, the EU is HELPING the traffickers. Now, rather then having to provide boats capable of crossing the Mediterranean, all the traffickers have to do is stick refugees on small flimsy rafts because the refugees know that the Italian coast guard or other boat will rescue them and take them the rest of the way to Italy, and then release them onto the streets.

Obama did the same thing here in the US---the border patrol essentially became a "rescue" agency, to the point that people would turn themselves in immediately upon crossing the border, knowing that they would be taken to a nice facility with showers and hot food and lawyers and then released onto the streets of the USA.

The USA and EU are partly responsible for creating their own problems by assisting the traffickers in getting climate refugees into Europe and the USA.

IMHO the USA and EU should immediately adopt Australia's program and send illegal immigrants quickly back to their home countries immediately.

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:24:57

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/06/asia/ ... index.html

Landmines placed in the path of Rohingya refugees on Myanmar border...

Bangladesh summoned the Myanmar ambassador Wednesday to urge an end to the violence that has engulfed the region and to raise concerns about reports of landmines being laid along the border between the two countries.

At least 164,000 ethnic Rohingya Muslims have fled to Bangladesh from Myanmar since August 25, according to the Inter Sector Coordination Group (ISCG) of humanitarian agencies in Bangladesh. The United Nations expects that number to jump to 300,000 by the end of the year....
*********************

Bangladesh is flooded ......and hungry + over populated. :arrow: :!:
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby EdwinSm » Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:51:59

Will people in Georgia start shooting those fleeing Florida to escape Hurricane Irma?

I am sure that they will count as 'Climate Refugees', and Georgia is to the north of Florida.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby GHung » Thu 07 Sep 2017, 13:01:45

Nah. Every time Floridians flee to Georgia, they spend lots of money. Atlanta TV news reporting that virtually all hotel/motel rooms in the area are booked and restaurants are staffing up for the weekend.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Sep 2017, 13:49:26

M_B_S wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/06/asia/landmines-rohingya-myanmar/index.html

Landmines placed in the path of Rohingya refugees on Myanmar border...

Bangladesh summoned the Myanmar ambassador Wednesday to urge an end to the violence that has engulfed the region and to raise concerns about reports of landmines being laid along the border between the two countries.

At least 164,000 ethnic Rohingya Muslims have fled to Bangladesh from Myanmar since August 25, according to the Inter Sector Coordination Group (ISCG) of humanitarian agencies in Bangladesh. The United Nations expects that number to jump to 300,000 by the end of the year....
*********************

Bangladesh is flooded ......and hungry + over populated. :arrow: :!:


Damn blood thirsty budist!
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Thu 07 Sep 2017, 14:32:12

GHung wrote:Nah. Every time Floridians flee to Georgia, they spend lots of money. Atlanta TV news reporting that virtually all hotel/motel rooms in the area are booked and restaurants are staffing up for the weekend.

Plus the fact that almost all of them will "migrate" back home (well, to what's left of it) afterwards.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 22 Dec 2017, 05:32:43

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... eu-by-2100

1 Million Refugees per year will enter EU because of CC
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 22 Dec 2017, 14:56:28

dohboi wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/21/devastating-climate-change-could-see-one-million-migrants-a-year-entering-eu-by-2100

1 Million Refugees per year will enter EU because of CC

CC = Cheap Citizens (the EU countries allow them in because they're cheap labour), growth must be maintained at all costs and that appears to include diluting your indigenous population to the point that they are overwhelmed.

But that doesn't matter if the money keeps on flowing upwards!
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Re: The resettling begins

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 03:10:48

Tanada wrote:Speaking of resettling, remember how one year ago (2016) there was a big media splash about hos coastal erosion in Pacifica California was about to topple some apartment blocks into the ocean? Well a year later two of the three blocks have been demolished and the city is planning the demolition of the third right now. BUT that is not the only place where crowded California is suffering problems with coastal erosion. A lot of State and Federal money is being spent on the impossible to win battle because California's excessive population gives them more political clout. Two pictures are at the link below the quote. How long until people get the message and withdraw all structures a mile or so from the beach?

In another stunning example of the unyielding destruction powerful winter storms can cause on the California coastline, State Parks officials are now faced with having to remove a home teetering over the edge of a Half Moon Bay bluff that eroded by nearly 30 feet the last few weeks.

The residence at the western-most edge of Alcatraz Avenue used to house State Parks workers, but was red-tagged after the earth below began crumbling even further this past weekend, according to the state agency.

Just a few blocks to the north, for the second winter in a row Mirada Road in El Granada took another beating. Portions of the street that separates homes and businesses from the ocean also succumbed to recent storms.

With many residents and officials noting coastal erosion was exacerbated in recent years, the exact cause has been up for debate. Some believe it could be a combination of factors — rising sea levels, more intense storms and a lack of protective sand collecting in Pillar Point Harbor that still hasn’t been dredged.

What is becoming clear, is that something needs to be done, said Half Moon Bay Mayor Debbie Ruddock.

“I really think that we need a multi-jurisdictional group here to look at erosion,” Ruddock said. “Looking at this year’s damage, I think it’s pretty clear that we need a group to look at this together — the city, county, state and Army Corps — to figure this out. The down-coast erosion has really taken off this year, it needs some joint attention.”

Residents in the area have decried the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers recently announcing its analysis of removing sand that collects inside the federally-built jetty at the harbor wasn’t worth the cost of dredging. Proponents argue replenishing the sand along the coastline just south of the harbor is vital to slowing, if not preventing, extreme erosion of the bluffs.

The San Mateo County Harbor District, which owns Pillar Point, is continuing to study the issue that has a variety of environmental implications. In the meantime, the various entities that have jurisdiction over areas of the coast are working on both short- and long-term repairs.

State Parks is in the process of determining whether to demolish or attempt to remove and relocate the single-family home, said Terry Kiser, superintendent of the Santa Cruz District.

“It all happened within the last month. We had a good bluff, I want to say 35 to 40 feet of bluff in front of that house before the first winter storm hit. Since then, it’s been an exponential rate of coastal retreat and erosion,” Kiser said.

Although the foundation is now exposed, officials are confident it will hold up while they determine next steps. State Parks is also considering whether to realign the segment of the California Coastal Trail running just east of the home to ensure the recreational asset isn’t compromised, Kiser said.

Unlike other entities with property along the coast, State Parks strives to manage its assets in a “natural” way, he said, differentiating it from armoring tactics such as using large boulders known as rip rap. He added the agency would be interested in collaborating with other agencies in discussing a more regional approach.

“Coastal access and the California Coastal Trail are very important resource for not just the residents that live on the coast, but people that visit the coast from all over,” Kiser said.

San Mateo County is also working toward repairing Mirada Road where, for the second year, extreme erosion was fueled by powerful winter storms.

The road, which is the main entry for several homes and businesses, is now marked by potholes and areas where large chunks of asphalt and bluff disappeared.

Most recently, the county raised the rip rap up to just above street level to help protect against crashing waves. In the long term, the county is planning what’s called a “soil nail wall” that requires drilling down and filling a series of holes with rebar or concrete, to provide more lasting protection against erosion, said Joe LoCoco, deputy director at Public Works.

Neither LoCoco nor Kiser could point to the harbor as the sole culprit for the extreme erosion experienced in recent years. LoCoco noted it’s hard to quantify the exact cause, instead pointed to a variety of factors that likely contribute to harsh conditions including sea level rise, the harbor breakwater trapping sand, winter storms and just the naturally occurring process of erosion.

“It’s just a lot of the same vulnerabilities that we’ve had for a long time,” LoCoco said.

There are a variety of storm-battered coastal areas prompting officials to consider options such as shoreline protection projects or even strategic retreat.

Last year, a joint county, city and Caltrans restoration project at Surfer’s Beach was completed to protect Highway 1 and restore beach access at the popular spot immediately south of the harbor.

To the north, the city of Pacifica has faced extreme consequences such as sinkholes, damage to its pier and needing to red-tag a 20-unit apartment building caused by last winter’s El Niño-fueled winter storms.

On Wednesday, the city and U.S. Rep. Jackie Speier, D-San Mateo, were pleased to announce several restoration projects expected to cost millions of dollars were being considered for federal and state funding related to disaster assistance and hazard mitigation grants.

To the south, Half Moon Bay is considering whether to realign a portion of the Coastal Trail at Poplar Beach near a recently relocated pedestrian bridge moved after the Seymour ditch widened at the bluffs. The county must also consider whether a capped landfill it manages nearby will one day need to be moved.

Mayor Ruddock, who met with Half Moon Bay staff to review the recent reports of damage in and surrounding the city, said she hopes officials from various levels of government begin considering a regional approach toward finding more permanent solutions.

“It’s a patchwork of jurisdictions in addition to a patchwork of repairs, rip rap and Band-Aids,” she said.

samantha@dailyjournal.com

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/ ... 74888.html
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Re: Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 06:02:44

Relocating a called landfill!

Now that’s something I had not considered before.
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Re: Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 12:34:57

Calif. prepares policy for coastal 'retreat'

Oceanfront homes could be demolished along California's coastline under a groundbreaking proposal to preserve the state's made-for-movies beaches before they're destroyed by rising seawater.

The California Coastal Commission plans to release guidance early next year for dealing with sea-level rise in residential areas. The state commission, which has a say in regulating coastal development, wants city and county governments to use the language as they devise adaptation policies for climate change.

A draft version of the guidance includes sections on "managed retreat," the government process of buying threatened homes and relocating them or tearing them down. The commission's objective is to preserve the state's idyllic beaches for the public. Removing homes can free the coastline to move farther inland, preserving beaches' sandy characteristics.

Needless to say, the plan is controversial.

The other option is "holding the line" and "protecting shorelines with armoring," says the draft guidance, which argues against relying on sea walls for fear that they would make sandy beaches disappear under rising ocean water.

Instead, it says threatened properties should be removed, modified or relocated. In the eyes of the commission, the rising ocean inevitably will wipe out many homes.

The commission oversees development along the state's 1,100 miles of iconic coastline. It has oversight over municipalities as they write land-use rules.

Local officials in theory can reject the agency's guidance when drafting adaptation plans for sea-level rise. But the commission has leverage. It can in some cases control permitting related to coastal construction of homes, residential redevelopment and the building of sea walls.

The commission has a sprawling mandate: It's there to protect the state's beaches for the public. That mission is getting harder. A report last year from the U.S. Geological Survey projected that sea-level rise could drown as much as two-thirds of state beaches by 2100 (Climatewire, July 12, 2017).

Retreat raises thorny legal and economic issues. If homeowners are unwilling to sell, cities would need to use eminent domain to take private property for the public good. That promises to trigger court battles. Cities would also need to find the money to pay for high-priced oceanfront homes — only to raze them.

The proposal has triggered a flood of objections.

Some cities have opposed retreat in their adaptation plans, or promised residents they will. Beach homeowners have packed local council and community meetings, demanding help from elected officials. Some residents are reaching out to state lawmakers.

The pushback pressured the commission to delay hearings on the guidance until next year. The agency plans to talk with cities in a bid to cool heated interactions, commission Executive Director Jack Ainsworth said at the agency's October meeting.

"There is a lot of fear and uncertainty associated with these planning efforts throughout the state," Ainsworth said at the meeting. "There's fear about the loss of property values. We've got loss of a tax base, anxiety about managed retreat and what it means, concerns about taking of private property. These have become a loud and building message in the discussion surrounding our guidance."

'Slow-moving disaster'

Some cities are refusing to change their policies to address sea-level rise. Others want to use sea walls and armoring "to the exclusion of all other adaptation strategies," Ainsworth said, adding that local governments must respond to this "slow-moving disaster."

California appears to be the first state in the country to be considering retreat so broadly.

"It's unusual have an agency that looks at the coast and says, 'Let's take a look at all of these pieces together,'" said A.R. Siders, an environmental fellow at Harvard University.

Other states are applying adaptation policies in a more piecemeal way, Siders said. New Jersey has a "Blue Acres" program to buy out flood-prone homes. Houston purchased about 3,000 houses located in the floodplain. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has purchased about 40,000 homes, since the 1990s, that have been repeatedly inundated.

In California, retreat is already happening as cliffs collapse.

"When you have higher, bigger storms and sea level is rising, then you assume there's going to be more erosion at the bottom of the cliffs," said Adam Young, a project scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California, San Diego.

Condemned houses

In Sonoma, near San Francisco, chunks of oceanfront cliffs have fallen away, putting numerous homes at risk. Eleven have been torn down or have collapsed into the sea. Two homes are still standing but are deemed unsafe for occupancy. The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) plans to move a section of nearby Highway 1 inland.

In San Luis Obispo, located north of Santa Barbara, Caltrans shifted 3 miles of Highway 1 to the east. The agency condemned and purchased homes using eminent domain.

Seaside cliffs have crumbled in Pacifica, south of San Francisco. That forced the demolition of three apartment buildings and three homes. City officials say El Niño storms contributed to that cliff erosion.

Pacifica now is using eminent domain to buy land where two of the apartments were located. It wants to create a buffer to prevent future cliff collapses because a sewer line is located beneath the street.

Madeline Cavalieri, statewide planning manager for the California Coastal Commission, called events in Pacifica "unmanaged retreat." That's going to happen more without advance planning, she said.

Hearings on a revised version of the commission's guidance could be held in late winter 2019, Ainsworth said.

To get public support for its guidance, the commission is considering a public education campaign, Ainsworth said, on "how sea-level rise affects us all."

Other areas of the country have avoided the term "retreat" because it's so inflammatory, said Siders of Harvard.

"It's just a very emotional term," she said. "People don't like the word 'retreat' because it sounds like we're losing, which is sort of nonsensical when it's you versus the ocean. You're not going to win that fight."

Just conceptual

The commission guidance suggests when and how to implement managed retreat.

Cities should set triggers for retreat, it says, such as a minimum beach width for "optimum public recreational access." Local governments can pursue sand replenishment where possible, it says. Cities in San Diego's North County hope to participate in a federally sponsored plan for 50 years of beach sand replacement. But once those aren't feasible, it argues, cities must consider retreat.

The guidance could be far-reaching. All new development and major redevelopment in a city's designated zone would need to enroll in a managed retreat program, the guidance says. Permits for that development, it says, "shall be conditioned to require its modification or removal when necessary to maintain the minimum beach width."

On top of that, the commission argues that a home's deed should disclose that the property could be removed or modified if the beach shrinks to a certain width. That would "notify all new owners of this condition," the guidance says.

The guidance suggests that cities should seek funding to buy homes. One option it offers is acquiring beach homes and then renting them out until they're damaged.

All the retreat ideas right now are "conceptual," said Cavalieri, of the commission.

Is retreat legal?

Retreat isn't mentioned in the 1976 California Coastal Act, the law that gives the commission its authority, said Arie Spangler, an attorney with the Coastal Rights Coalition, a homeowners group. It's "really just an underground regulation that they're trying to push through," she said.

If the commission wants managed retreat, it should get authority from the California Legislature, she said. Moreover, the California Constitution grants residents rights that include "protecting property," Spangler said.

Assemblymember Mark Stone (D), a former California Coastal Commission member, said the Legislature isn't likely to pass statewide adaptation policy anytime soon, based on what he's seen. Last year, it rejected his bill on rules for sea walls. Asked what could prompt action, Stone said, "I don't know, short of catastrophes."

The commission contends that its authority comes through the California Coastal Act, passed by the Legislature. That law mandates beach access.

The agency's leverage over cities comes as they write adaptation blueprints. Those go into local planning rulebooks that the commission certifies or rejects. If a city lacks a certified "Local Coastal Program," or LCP, the commission exerts greater control over permits in the coastal areas.

The commission guidance is advisory, not a regulation. But that's not its real-world effect, said Larry Salzman, an attorney with the Pacific Legal Foundation (PLF), which has represented homeowners challenging Coastal Commission decisions.

"This guidance is essentially putting cities on notice as to what the commission wants to see and will likely impose on them as a condition of certifying" LCPs, Salzman said. "While it's couched in terms of draft guidance, it's a declaration of 'Fall into line with what the commission wants, or you're not going to get local control over your permitting decisions.'"

The commission already limits sea walls in some areas, in general restricting those to homes that existed before the Coastal Act took effect in 1977. Developers that build new homes must waive the right to future sea walls. If a home is remodeled to more than 50 percent of its size, homeowners also can be forced to forfeit their right to shoreline armoring.

From September 2010 through this April, the commission issued 160 permits for residential construction on oceanfront property. Of those, 139 surrendered the right to future shoreline protection, according to a lawsuit from PLF and the Coastal Rights Coalition.

Promising protection

California cities are weighing whether to include retreat as they write sea-level-rise adaptation plans.

It might be an option, but not in the near term, said Serge Dedina, mayor of Imperial Beach, the southwesternmost city in the continental United States.

"We have to look at all the tools we have to start addressing sea-level rise," Dedina said, adding that there are "over 40 different tools that we can use before we get there."

Other communities are rejecting retreat entirely. Del Mar, a town of 4,200 people, said retreat isn't feasible due to "economic, environmental, engineering, social, political, and legal constraints and uncertainties."

The city can't afford to buy homes, it said. Del Mar's median home price is $2.6 million. Beachfront property sells for a lot more.

The city council in October passed an ordinance promising to fight any Coastal Commission effort to impose retreat (Climatewire, Oct. 17).

That came even though a sea-level-rise study Del Mar commissioned found that the dry sands could disappear in winter by 2030 and vanish completely by 2050. The city counts on tourism dollars from 3 million annual visitors.

Del Mar plans to deal with rising waters by replenishing sand on the beach, building a berm near a river, and other options, said Terry Gaasterland, chairman of Del Mar's Sea Level Rise Stakeholder Technical Advisory Committee.

"We protect. We don't retreat," he said.


LINK
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Re: Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 12:37:15

Newfie wrote:Relocating a called landfill!

Now that’s something I had not considered before.


Newfie check out the photo gallery, forty years of cliff erosion in Pacifica, CA

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... 07-tbla-10
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Re: Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 16:48:45

Recent drone footage of the above erosion showing how far it has progressed since January 2016.
https://youtu.be/jYVE_1mIKLU
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Re: Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 20 Apr 2019, 17:35:35

It always surprises me just how folks hang onto ideas past their time. They will mitigate by armoring the coast huh? Didnt do too well there did it.

Ah, humans! Bah.
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