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THE Alternative Energy (general) Thread pt 3(merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: "Renewables"...a shell game for Outsourcing Energy?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 12:05:59

Eugene - A valid point. I've made the point before that much of the world had reached "PO" long ago from a utilization standpoint. Of course most here are US citizens who kindly accept the intrusions from our Brit cousins. So naturally that’s the centric view seen here. Hell, us folks in Texas don’t give a crap about the rest of the country let alone the world. LOL. That’s we burn coal as fast as we can and will continue to do so. And that’s also why we’ll keep expanding wind power: because it’s good for our economy.

But that doesn’t mean the folks in Texas or on this web site aren’t aware of what’s going on in the test of the world. That’s one of the great benefits to being ”exceptional”. LOL
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Re: Renewable energy from evaporating water

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 12:40:00

Thanks Rockman for clearly pointing out the obvious.

Reading through the article, it looks like "fun" theory to play with at a nanoscale, not that it would be likely to scale up to anything practical.

And oh yes, I see that the taxpayers are the primary funders of this "paper" via the DOE. :-x It makes one wonder if all the "wonderful research" produced by universities is so wonderful (given the cost) IF all the ivory tower time wasting like this is taken into account. Of course, as long as they're only wasting taxpayers' money, that's OK, right? After all, anything with government involved MUST be a good thing, right?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Renewable energy from evaporating water

Unread postby vox_mundi » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 14:13:37

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Thanks Rockman for clearly pointing out the obvious.

Reading through the article, it looks like "fun" theory to play with at a nanoscale, not that it would be likely to scale up to anything practical.

And oh yes, I see that the taxpayers are the primary funders of this "paper" via the DOE. :-x It makes one wonder if all the "wonderful research" produced by universities is so wonderful (given the cost) IF all the ivory tower time wasting like this is taken into account. Of course, as long as they're only wasting taxpayers' money, that's OK, right? After all, anything with government involved MUST be a good thing, right?

2015 DOE Budget (enacted) - $ 27,402,399,000

Total National Nuclear Security Administration (Nuclear Weapons Systems) - $11,399,034,000
Total Defense Environmental Cleanup (Hanford, Savannah River, WIPP, etc) - $6,206,466,000
Total Fossil & Nuclear Energy Program - $10,208,016,000

ivory tower time wasting - $30,000
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Re: Renewable energy from evaporating water

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 14:43:55

Image
Facebook knows you're a dog.
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Re: Renewable energy from evaporating water

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 14:49:21

Keith_McClary wrote:Image
I used to keep one of those on my desk at work. People loved it.
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Re: "Renewables"...a shell game for Outsourcing Energy?

Unread postby Timo » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 15:38:20

ROCKMAN wrote:Ghung - Interesting. But it leads to a very important question: do they really eat that much toast in Kodiak? I though they survived on caribou burgers alone.

Hey...we might as well have some fun with such comments from Lion.

They gotta toast their buns!
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Re: Renewable energy from evaporating water

Unread postby vox_mundi » Tue 16 Jun 2015, 15:41:44

Keith_McClary wrote:Image

OMG Keith you discovered perpetual motion :) Woo-hoo!
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Re: THE Alternative Energy (general) Thread pt 3(merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 24 Jun 2015, 21:59:16

I just found this link on the location of alternative fueling and charging stations in the US.
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Re: THE Alternative Energy (general) Thread pt 3(merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 07:56:56

Here is a new twist on Hydroelectricity. I can see this being useful in any community that gets its water from a higher altitude reservoir like many on the West Coast do. Not so useful where I live in the flatlands, but still worth doing where it is cash flow positive. You might be able to use it on water towers to reclaim some of the energy used to pump water up into the tower, but you never get back as much as you put in so the law of diminishing returns quickly applies.

Portland has replaced a section of its existing water supply network with Lucid Energy pipes containing four forty-two inch turbines. As water flows through the pipes, the turbines spin and power attached generators, which then feed energy back into the city’s electrical grid. Known as the “Conduit 3 Hydroelectric Project,” Portland’s new clean energy source is scheduled to be up and running at full capacity in March. According to a Lucid Energy FAQ detailing the partnership, this will be the “first project in the U.S. to secure a 20-year Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) for renewable energy produced by in-pipe hydropower in a municipal water pipeline."

According to Lucid Energy’s FAQ, the partnership between the company and the city of Portland is currently finishing its “commissioning” phase, in which the system–particularly the aforementioned monitors and sensors–is put through rigorous final-stage testing. Once fully operational, the installation is expected to generate $2,000,000 worth of renewable energy capacity over twenty years, based on “an average of 1,100 megawatt hours of energy per year, enough electricity to power up to 150 homes." The money generated will be split among the project’s investors, as well as will be used to recoup the cost of construction, and ongoing upkeep of the system. After 20 years the Portland Water Bureau will have the right to own the entire project and all subsequent energy and profit generated by it.

http://magazine.good.is/articles/portla ... bine-power
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3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby Tikib » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:10:41

I have been researching this topic pretty obssessively over the past three months and I am pretty sure I have found the only three energy technologies that could replace fossil fuels.

1. Pacer Fusion

The net output energy of a fission-fusion bomb is huge. And scientists think that the the energy conversion process from heat to electricity can be optimized to 33% efficiency. All with exsiting technology.

Possible EROEI : 50+

Possible time to scale up if we started investing now :10 years

Amount of fuel left : 10,000 years +

For more information visit yottawatts.net


2. Liquid Fission Reactor

The total fissionable energy contained in uranium/thorium is huge but we currently only use a fraction of it. Liquid fission reactors like the LFTR complete the fission process. However the technology to create these reactors is still being perfected.

Possible EROEI : 50+

Amount of Fuel Left: 200 years +

Possible time to scale up if we started investing now :15 years

for more information visit http://energyfromthorium.com/


3. Wind Energy with Hydro/Tidal storage

Scandanavia has already started putting into place one of the only three energy technlogies that could replace fossil fuels. Wind Energy has an EROEI of over 20 however it is intermittant. Combined with cheap storage from a hydroelectric or tidal dam, wind energy could eventually replace fossil fuels.

Possible EROEI : 20

Possible time to scale up if we started investing now : 20 years



Other forms of energy I investigated either could not be scaled up or would be too expensive to scale up.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby GHung » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:32:31

I suggest you do the math on replacing liquid energy (< 90 MMBD oil products) with electrical energy. Get back to us on that.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby Tikib » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 11:14:57

It really depends how you use the energy. An electric motor is more efficient than a hydrocarbon engine.

So for short journeys electric cars are a better choice. And over longer distances you can use electric trains which of course don't need to store any electricity.

Finally if you have an energy source with a high enough EROEI you can create synthetic hydrocarbons.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby SteveO » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 11:49:04

GHung wrote:I suggest you do the math on replacing liquid energy (< 90 MMBD oil products) with electrical energy. Get back to us on that.



What you appear to be implying is "it won't keep oil fired, Business As Usual going so we shouldn't even consider it". Not exactly a useful attitude when BAU collapses.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby GHung » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:50:17

Thanks, P. SteveO, few here have have invested as much personally than I have to reduce their reliance upon fossil fuels, including fossil-fueled grid energy. Jeez, even my rototiller is electric/solar. I'm implying that societies can't afford the tens of trillions of dollars to veer away from the most invested-in energy sources (by far) in history. We're beyond the point where incremental change is going to make much of a difference. All of the alternate sources mentioned, and the infrastructure to utilize them, would require billions of barrels of the substances they're meant to replace, and the continuing liberation of giga-tons of carbon. I'm all for implementing alternatives to burning stuff, even if it means burning more stuff, but it has nothing at all to do with trying to preserve any semblance of BAU. It's more about keeping enough lights on, long enough, to watch the meltdown of humanity's hubris from the cheap seats as our extreme overshoot condition plays out. Maybe those who remain will learn something.

Meanwhile, I consider threads like this as pure bargaining, almost like flapping your arms harder as you approach terminal velocity, passing the 44th floor. People simply can't conceive of how far we have to fall.
Last edited by GHung on Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:56:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:52:47

Retitled: '3 technologies to generate worthless electricity'

The entire purpose of the renewable scam is to get someone else to pay for your electricity. Large industrial users will not pay for electricity. Neither will Small medium enterprise. And the people who put panels on their roof don't want to pay either. NOBODY WANTS TO PAY!

That school was paid for by gas/oil royalties. Guess what, schools are closing down in old neighborhoods. Electricity is not easily monetized. You have to generate a platform molecule. That hard , expensive, and very difficult to scale up.

Putting in wireless internet, or solar panels, or wind farm won't generate any wealth at all. 'Decarbonisation' is the product of educated morons.

The Electron Economy is selling dope and making movies on computers. In other words, hopeless nonsense.

PACER is within the realm of cranks. May as well say LENR/LANR crap too.
The LFTR does not work. Will take 100's of years of trial and error like the sodium reactors in Russia.
Wind is like pissing in the wind.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 13:02:36

1. The Horse
2. The Water Wheel
3. The Bicycle
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby Tikib » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 13:19:50

Heh this forum is funny, no matter what you say you almost always get shot down.

I am a clever guy and I can back up everything I have said with hard maths and science and am going to do so. For people who have read what I have written in previous threads you will remember that just because i believe LFTR and PACER will work it does not mean that I beleive that they will work in time. In fact we almost certainly don't have time now, but if we did have more time we should be investing in those technologies.

And if it were upto me I would be rush building pacer plants right now.

As for wind, wind is already replacing fossil fuels in some countries at a competitive price, so being absolutely agaist it is moronic.
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Re: 3 Energy Technlogies to Replace Fossil Fuels

Unread postby StarvingLion » Tue 07 Jul 2015, 13:22:33

A serious person would be looking at how to make oil/gas exploration profitable again instead of the pathetic casino and product of unlimited money printing it is today. There is nothing else even worth spending 15 minutes on.

The EV is a joke for old fogies on the dole.

Read a book on duel-fuel ICE's.
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