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Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 11:44:25

As a rental car, I was very pleased with a 2016 Ford Fusion hybrid. However, I'm always either behind or ahead of current trends. For comfort, I would have choose a Fusion over the Japanese brands. However, I'm a stickler for utter reliability, so I would have gone with a Japanese car if I were buying.

For Ford, Fusion was right car at wrong time
http://www.autonews.com/article/20180701/RETAIL01/180709981/ford-fusion-sedan-sales
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 13:48:26

Its a bit harder to criticize Ford for cancelling the Fiesta, since they never took a penny of bailout money. However, GM took over 12 billion dollars of taxpayer funded bailouts from the Obama administration.

Trump is demanding that GM restart production of the Volt and other sedans, or repay all the bailout money to the US treasury. That seems reasonable to me.

I'm surprised that Obama and the Ds aren't joining Trump in lambasting GM for ending production of the Volt, but I guess that the Ds all hate Trump so much that if Trump speaks out against GM cutting US jobs, then the Ds automatically feel they have to be in favor of GM destroying US jobs.

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby aspera » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 15:05:22

Plantagenet wrote: Trump is demanding that GM restart production of the Volt and other sedans, or repay all the bailout money to the US treasury. That seems reasonable to me.

Q: Did General Motors repay its TARP loan from the Treasury with other TARP money?

A: Yes, it’s true that GM paid back its loan from the Treasury Department, in full, ahead of schedule.

But the debt was only part of the automaker bailout package. Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the Treasury gave GM $49.5 billion, most of which was converted into an ownership stake in the form of stock. Through this equity stake, the government still owns 61 percent of GM.

Some Republicans, including Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa have pointed out that GM used TARP money to pay back its TARP debt. That’s true, but GM simply handed back TARP money it had been lent and hadn’t used. Those funds had been sitting in an escrow account, should the automaker need them. (The company didn’t borrow new money to pay back an older loan.)

https://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/


Did I miss something. I thought they'd paid it back, early. And, do they still own that equity stake? (I seem to recall that the Treasury sold it - but got conflicting answers from the net).
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 15:18:17

The Canadian government gave GM CDN$10.5 billion in 2009 in the form of loans, share purchases and subsidies. The net loss on this package is somewhere between CDN$4 billion and CDN$5 billion. Now GM is closing their Oshawa plant, one of three plants they have in Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/nat ... -1.4920729
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 16:54:27

The claim that GM repaid the money it received from TARP turns out to be just more "fake news".

In actuality, GM gave the Obama administration shares in GM......and the geniuses in the Obama administration sold those shares at an 11.3 billion dollar LOSS.

Meanwhile Trump is charging ahead to try to put pressure on GM to save US jobs. In typical Trumpean fashion. Today he told federal agencies to cut all GM subsidies in response to GM closing the US factories (including the VOLT factory) and cutting US jobs. NO doubt the Ds will file a lawsuit somewhere with a D-leaning federal judge to force Trump to continue the GM subsidies.

trump-tells-agencies-find-ways-cut-gm-subsidies

IMHO its shameful that Obama and the Ds are choosing to remain silent on GM closing US factories and firing US workers. Its seems like the Ds could at least be bi-partisan on an issue like this, but the Ds, being who they are, are unwilling to join with Trump in putting pressure on GM to try to save US jobs.

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 17:03:36

This GM issue is a perfect example of why and how Trump took the majority of Blue Collar votes from the D's. If they DO file such a lawsuit, it would simply be another example of how they are out of touch with the classic D base.

Now can we have a 25% tariff on Chinese built vehicles, please? I would include the EVs from China in such a tariff.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby GHung » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 17:40:35

Plantagenet wrote:The claim that GM repaid the money it received from TARP turns out to be just more "fake news".

In actuality, GM gave the Obama administration shares in GM......and the geniuses in the Obama administration sold those shares at an 11.3 billion dollar LOSS.


Just another Planty fantasy or are you going to provide citations for this? Maybe you should stop flushing whatever credibility you imagine you may have down the crapper.

Plantagenet wrote:IMHO its shameful that Obama and the Ds are choosing to remain silent on GM closing US factories and firing US workers. Its seems like the Ds could at least be bi-partisan on an issue like this, but the Ds, being who they are, are unwilling to join with Trump in putting pressure on GM to try to save US jobs.

Cheers!


More utter bullshit. I've seen quite a few democrats calling out GM.

[b]Democrats blast General Motors' cuts - Detroit Free Press[/b]

WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats let loose on General Motors' decision to close plants in Michigan and Ohio on Monday, saying that the company got millions in tax breaks heralded by President Donald Trump but that they haven't saved workers. ........
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 115399002/


Michigan Democrats threatening to pull $2 billion tax credits from GM

In the wake of the automaker's decision to layoff Michigan workers, Michigan Democrats are threatening to pull $2 billion dollars in tax credits from General Motors.
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... ts-from-gm


I can do about a dozen more if you like.....

... but keep the idiot posts coming, Planty. More proof you need help, or to be committed.

And whatever happened to the Republican/conservative mantra about free markets? If GM needs to restructure some things, Republicans should be fine with that.You too scared to address that some of these subsidies began under a Republican administration, as I have pointed out?

Ask me why this independent is really sick of partisan hypocrisy. Could it be because partisans on both sides are largely lying sacks of shit which is why this country is going to fail?
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 17:56:26

Plantagenet wrote:Its a bit harder to criticize Ford for cancelling the Fiesta, since they never took a penny of bailout money. However, GM took over 12 billion dollars of taxpayer funded bailouts from the Obama administration.

Trump is demanding that GM restart production of the Volt and other sedans, or repay all the bailout money to the US treasury. That seems reasonable to me.

I'm surprised that Obama and the Ds aren't joining Trump in lambasting GM for ending production of the Volt, but I guess that the Ds all hate Trump so much that if Trump speaks out against GM cutting US jobs, then the Ds automatically feel they have to be in favor of GM destroying US jobs.

Cheers!

Well, considering how many votes the D's get from the unions and their influence, it's not at all surprising to me that the D's won't go against the UAW.

Let's remember, they're only about "fiscal responsibility" when complaining about R spending priorities. NOT when buying votes with their own spending priorities.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby GHung » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 18:09:24

Let's remember, they're only about "fiscal responsibility" when complaining about R spending priorities. NOT when buying votes with their own spending priorities.


And how is that different from the Republicans? Both parties live in glass houses, and both parties buy votes with my tax dollars. You all sound juvenile from an independent's point of view. Maybe you should just do repeat posts of "I know you are but what am I?".
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 18:26:46

GHung wrote:
Let's remember, they're only about "fiscal responsibility" when complaining about R spending priorities. NOT when buying votes with their own spending priorities.


And how is that different from the Republicans? Both parties live in glass houses, and both parties buy votes with my tax dollars. You all sound juvenile from an independent's point of view. Maybe you should just do repeat posts of "I know you are but what am I?".

They're the same. I'm a moderate. I just get tired of both sides claiming that somehow they're different, or even on the side of the "good". Lately, the D's love to do this while pointing at Trump, but given how they really play, that's just ironic.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 19:07:43

Outcast_Searcher wrote:... considering how many votes the D's get from the unions and their influence, it's not at all surprising to me that the D's won't go against the UAW.


Actually, the unions are AGAINST GM closing the US plants and firing the American factory workers.

Nonetheless, I don't see any Ds supporting Trump and denouncing GM's move to end the Volt and the other sedans, close the factories, and fire the US workers.

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 22:49:33

Plantagenet wrote:Trump and denouncing GM's move to end the Volt


Again, please provide a single citation where Trump singles out the Volt as some sort of sacred car worth saving. He is only upset about the layoffs. He couldn't care less what they were building.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 28 Nov 2018, 23:52:48

asg70 wrote:....Trump singles out the Volt as some sort of sacred car worth saving


??????

I'm always amazed how disconnected you are from reality, asg/ennui/mos.

You can fantasize that the Volt is "some kind of sacred car" all you want, but Trump hasn't said anything like that.

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 12:27:04

Plantagenet wrote:You can fantasize that the Volt is "some kind of sacred car" all you want, but Trump hasn't said anything like that.


Then stop trying to connect Trump to the Volt. Sheesh, you are such a damn gaslighter.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:35:05

asg70 wrote: stop trying to connect Trump to the Volt.


You really should read a newspaper or watch the TV news or something. You just don't have a clue what is going on in the world.

I'll summarize it for you briefly:

1. GM announced they were were ending production of the VOLT and several other cars. GM said they would close the factories and lay off all the workers.

2. Trump demanded that GM not take those steps, and then he directed Federal agencies to try to end all federal subisidies to GM unless they changed their plans. Sorry to have to break it to you, but the Volt is one of the cars that Trump wants GM to keep producing. Since the Ds have been largely silent on this issue, that makes Trump essentially the last defender of the Volt (and the other cars as well, of course).

Ironic, isn't it?

Cheers! :lol: :) :-D :evil: :roll:
Last edited by Plantagenet on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:38:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:37:31

Plantagenet wrote:1. GM announced they were were ending production of the VOLT and several other cars. GM said they would close the factories and lay off all the workers.
2. Trump demanded that GM not take those steps, and then he directed Federal agencies to try to end all federal subisidies to GM unless they changed their plans. Sorry to have to break it to you, but the Volt is one of the cars that Trump wants GM to keep producing.


Which is entirely coincidental. He cares about jobs, not the Volt. He doesn't give a rat's ass what the cars in those factories are as long as it gives people a paycheck. You're trolling this thread as if Trump is some sort of environmentalist, which is BS.
Last edited by asg70 on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:39:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:39:45

asg70 wrote: Trump is some sort of environmentalist.


You're lying.

You suggestion that Trump is "some sort of an environmentalist" is idiotic. Thats about the last thing Trump is concerned about.

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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby asg70 » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:43:03

Plantagenet wrote:You suggestion that Trump is "some sort of an environmentalist" is idiotic.


WTF is wrong with you? I made no such suggestion. I suggested that you are making such a suggestion in linking Trump to the Volt, which now you're backing away from in pure gaslighting fashion.

You're making even less sense than Starving Lion. At least I can tell what his point is and he's consistent, albeit wrong. You're both wrong AND internally inconsistent from moment to moment.

Image

Maybe a little too much radiation exposure from spending time in the stratosphere flying from place to place in your quest to destroy the environment?
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Re: Why the Volt is the best Peak Oil Prep Car....

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:50:51

asg70 wrote: I made no such suggestion. I suggested that you are making such a suggestion


But I didn't make that suggestion.

It appears in your post, not mine.

Thats why I called you out on it. That idea and those exact words originated in your little mind and went through your sticky fingers to your computer and then it appeared in your post.

Your suggestion that Trump is some kind of an environmentalist is wacky.

Again, I suggest you read a newspaper or watch the TV news or something so you aren't so misinformed and you don't have such bizarre ideas and your don't post such wacky stuff.

Cheers! :)
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