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THE China and Trains Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 18 Nov 2010, 19:22:44

You might also look up the story of Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook and ConnectU.

Of course there are many other examples of western companies ripping off each other's tech.
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Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 18 Nov 2010, 19:26:11

TreeFarmer wrote:

Soon the Chinese will be making cars that are good enough to export and compete.

TF


Soon? The roads in China are now jam packed with China-made vehicles. I remember when people claimed Harbor Freight tools were poorly made. Then we saw the fantastic glimmering towers sprouting all over that great nation a truly unprecedented pace; all constructed with made-in-China tools. You will see.

The Chinese will not only copy the best parts of The West, but will improve on them too. It's the efficient path. Maybe The West should do some copying of its own. Maybe The West could improve. It is getting rather messy and bleak.
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Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 18 Nov 2010, 21:59:57

eastbay wrote:The Chinese will not only copy the best parts of The West, but will improve on them too. It's the efficient path. Maybe The West should do some copying of its own. Maybe The West could improve. It is getting rather messy and bleak.


Thing is, the globalist capitalists in "the West" have invested their capital in China and stand to profit from this new Chinese century. There won't be any copying them Eastbay, because they're all on the same team -- borders are just for workin' folks.

(if we do "copy them," the stuff will all be made and China and we'll buy it with the money China loans us)
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Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby Fiddlerdave » Fri 19 Nov 2010, 05:15:36

eastbay wrote:
TreeFarmer wrote:

Soon the Chinese will be making cars that are good enough to export and compete.

TF


Soon? The roads in China are now jam packed with China-made vehicles. I remember when people claimed Harbor Freight tools were poorly made. Then we saw the fantastic glimmering towers sprouting all over that great nation a truly unprecedented pace; all constructed with made-in-China tools. You will see.

The Chinese will not only copy the best parts of The West, but will improve on them too. It's the efficient path. Maybe The West should do some copying of its own. Maybe The West could improve. It is getting rather messy and bleak.
It has become much simpler with the economic downturn.

Now the Chinese buy advanced technology in the acquisition of a company like Volvo, for pennies on a dollar of what Ford paid for it just 5 years earlier.

They are slowing the copying because there is nothing to copy - they are moving into being the world leaders in various industries, while any world conference on anything worth while (like solar panels and other technologies to survive PeakOil) are being sponsord and held in China.

China is moving into the economic endgame while the West is still in denial they have been pwnd by China. So sorry.
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Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 19 Nov 2010, 07:13:00

My neighbor just bought this Chinese knock off of a Vespa 150cc scooter. It's 1/5 the cost of a Vespa.
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Re: China stole high-speed train designs from European partn

Unread postby eastbay » Fri 19 Nov 2010, 08:11:23

dinopello wrote:My neighbor just bought this Chinese knock off of a Vespa 150cc scooter. It's 1/5 the cost of a Vespa.


In many states that nice little Chinese scooter will cost about what the Vespa's shipping, handling, and taxes cost. And as for quality, well, the roads in China are absolutely filled with them. So why do we keep buying the Italian ones? Silly Americans.
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Chinese train sets speed record - up to 481.1 kph (298.9 mph

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 06 Dec 2010, 01:59:34

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Re: Chinese train sets speed record - up to 481.1 kph (298.9

Unread postby anador » Mon 06 Dec 2010, 03:19:21

Derailing.... would suck.

Just like a plane crash.
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Re: Chinese train sets speed record - up to 481.1 kph (298.9

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 06 Dec 2010, 05:18:43

anador wrote:Derailing.... would suck.

Just like a plane crash.


Worse in some ways, locomotives are heavier and hence hold more energy at the time of the derailment. They also have a limited distance from the track where their damage can occur, for an aircraft their is a lot more open country than urban landscape to interact with.
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Re: Chinese train sets speed record - up to 481.1 kph (298.9

Unread postby scas » Mon 20 Dec 2010, 11:55:21

As a former pilot, the only time a plane crash is 'okay' is when you've run out of fuel. Electric trains don't fireball on you. Better to be on rails without any potential energy.

Small propeller aircraft are a different story.
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Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 27 Nov 2011, 10:11:35

World's fastest train unveiled in China

As China's economy and population expand, so do its transport needs. Although car ownership is on the increase, the Government is investing more in the railways.

China now has the fastest train in the world. It runs from the central city of Wuhan down to the south coast, at a speed of more than 380km/h.
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Re: Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 27 Nov 2011, 13:13:23

Metal on metal has very little friction unlike rubber on tarmac. The need for the rubber is just to keep a pressurised tire to make an acceptable comfort level for the occupants of the vehicle (well that and stopping distance).

Offcourse moving freight on rail at 30mph has about a 1/4 of the air friction as moving it by road as well as drivers will try to get up near 60mph. That and with both cars and trucks you will have a huge total cross section heading into the wind as each car and truck will have their own air to have to move out the way, while a well designed train will only have its own cross section of air to move.

Laughable perhaps but it is interesting to think about the sheer amount of air that has to be moved for 300 cars vs one well designed train.
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Re: Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 27 Nov 2011, 16:25:02

pstarr wrote:Technology is not the issue. We will soon wish we spend a few more cents of our tax dollars on rail freight and people. All those folks out in plains are about to loose airline service. I'll bet trains are starting to look awfully nice about now.


Air travel is overrated.
Travel itself is overrated as well.

What will be nice is when people realize they don't need to travel.
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Re: Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 27 Nov 2011, 18:20:19

AgentR11 wrote:
pstarr wrote:Technology is not the issue. We will soon wish we spend a few more cents of our tax dollars on rail freight and people. All those folks out in plains are about to loose airline service. I'll bet trains are starting to look awfully nice about now.


Air travel is overrated.
Travel itself is overrated as well.

What will be nice is when people realize they don't need to travel.

People won't realise that until they can't travel or the effort isn't worth it!
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Re: Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby argyle » Thu 01 Dec 2011, 03:39:20

AgentR11 wrote:
pstarr wrote:Technology is not the issue. We will soon wish we spend a few more cents of our tax dollars on rail freight and people. All those folks out in plains are about to loose airline service. I'll bet trains are starting to look awfully nice about now.


Air travel is overrated.
Travel itself is overrated as well.

What will be nice is when people realize they don't need to travel.


Glad I hate travelling (as opposed to all my co-workers :)
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Re: Chinas high speed rail network begins to open

Unread postby esarawilliams » Sun 24 Jun 2012, 07:10:10

China is the main country which is investing a lot in it,

Sword-shaped Train is really superb

Source: Top 5 fastest train of world http://www.etechmag.com/2012/06/22/fast ... world.html
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Re: THE China and Trains Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 05:12:28

By Julia Hahn

It's not just about raw materials anymore. China's expanding influence in Africa poses risks to European interests, but it offers opportunities as well.

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi is currently on a tour across Africa, where he is busy shaking hands with dignitaries and posing for photo ops. Wang's New Year's visits to the African continent are almost a tradition, this time he is in Madagascar, Tanzania, Zambia, Congo and Nigeria.

Zambia wants to become a transport and logistics hub in southern Africa and Wang has promised help. China was Zambia's "most important and reliable partner in its strive towards independent and sustainable development," Wang told the Chinese news agency Xinhua, after a meeting with his Zambian counterpart Harry Kalaba in Lusaka.

China is investing heavily in Africa. Its foreign ministry spokesman said last Friday that 25 new deals worth $50 billion (47 billion euros) were signed with African states in the first half of 2016. China has long overtaken the United States and former European colonial masters as Africa's most important trade partners.

Last autumn, a Chinese-built railroad between Ethiopia and Djibouti was inaugurated. Similar billion-dollar projects are also being undertaken in Kenya and Nigeria. These projects are anything but altruistic. They are part of China's new Silk Road initiative to expand trade ties and fulfill its ambition to become the world's largest economic powerhouse.

China as a peacemaker?

In addition to its infrastructure projects and raw material deals, Beijing is also increasingly flexing its military muscles in the continent. Stability is the key word. "Security is now a key part of China's strategy in Africa - and this is new," said Angela Stanzel, an expert on China at the European Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. "It reflects how China thinks about global issues and its interests," she told DW.

A permanent member of the UN Security Council, Beijing is contributing troops to seven of the UN's nine peacekeeping missions in Africa. No other Security Council member contributes to so many missions. China is militarily engaged in South Sudan, Sudan and Mali as well. It is currently setting up its first naval base in Djibouti, from where Chinese troops are supporting anti-piracy missions in the Gulf of Aden. The US and France also operate large military bases in Djibouti.

According to Angela Stanzel, China wants, firstly, to protect its citizens and business interests in Africa, and, secondly, sends a signal to the rest of the world. "China has long had a very bad image in Africa and has been criticized not only by Western countries, but also by Africans," Stanzel said. "With its increased commitment in the continent, the Asian economic powerhouse wants to show it is a responsible global player."



Beijing has long been supplying arms and economic aid to countries in Africa while paying scant attention to issues of democratic governance or human rights. "If China continues to engage in Africa, there is a risk that European values and political strategies will be undermined," analyst Stanzel said.

Corperate strategies of Chinese firms in Africa have also been strongly criticized. "There are several violations of, for example, labor protection laws in mining area," said Zambian policy analyst, Vince Chipatuka.

"Chinese investors use our citizens, let them work too long, and often they do not even get protective clothing. In addition, the many Chinese workers who are moving to our country, our cities and villages are taking jobs away from Zambians. If China is investing with us, this should not be at the expense of the people," Chipatuka added.

Chipatuka thinks the Zambian government should review agreements signed with the Chinese.

Opportunities for cooperation

Stanzel also sees opportunities for Europe in China's ambitions. She thinks Europe could work with Beijing, for example, in peacekeeping missions. "I think China has an interest in peacekeeping missions overseas, but has little experience with such missions. European nations could engage in joint training efforts with Beijing," she said.

Europe could also cooperate with China in possible evacuation missions, such as the operation in Libya in 2011, when Beijing had to pull out thousands of its citizens at the height of the Libyan crisis.

China could also draw on the know-how of the European countries in development cooperation. Stanzel thinks the Chinese and the Europeans have a common interest in Africa and that is the stability of the continent. She thinks the two could engage in tough debate about Africa in the future.

Kathy Sikombe is Lusaka contributed this report.


http://allafrica.com/stories/201701120845.html
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Re: THE China and Trains Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 16 Jan 2017, 15:36:20

How long until the 1890 dream of a transcontinental African railroad is accomplished, not be Brittain or France, but by China?
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