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Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 08:15:47

No.

Apparently the only boat to make it through was a tug captained by the last of the Newfoundland sealing skippers.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 11 Sep 2018, 11:11:22

Some details of a large LNG ice breaking tanker order.

https://www.ship-technology.com/project ... -carriers/
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 18:03:42

GAO gives USCG advice about breaker procurement


https://gcaptain.com/gao-identifies-mul ... r-program/
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 21:25:11

Newfie wrote:GAO gives USCG advice about breaker procurement


https://gcaptain.com/gao-identifies-mul ... r-program/


Oh for pities sake! Seventy years ago the USA had a dozen dedicated icebreakers that worked in the Great Lakes, New England, Alaska and Antarctica. Now we are down to a vessels pulled out of the disposal list and rebuilt originally constructed in 1976, one halfway modern Arctic class breaker commissioned in 2000, and one new small breaker in the Great Lakes to keep the waterways open on Michigan/Huron/Saint Claire and Erie and the rivers tying them together.

Meanwhile the country with an actual vision of what Ice breakers are good for has a half dozen purpose built icebreakers, several of them nuclear powered for unlimited range, and is adding a dozen or more double ended merchant ships to haul everything from liquefied fuels to bulk cargoes to containerized cargo.

The USA icebreaker capabilities at this point are almost equaled by Norway! I love Norway but the country is small with a tiny population compared to the USA with our interests on three oceans!
(Norway has 2 Icebreakers, both launched in the 21st century.)
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby GHung » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 22:21:51

Well, for Pete's sake, we're doing everything we can to melt the ice so we don't need ice breakers. A billion saved is a billion earned.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 26 Apr 2019, 19:33:22

New roll on roll off ice class ships

https://gcaptain.com/knud-e-hansen-desi ... finnlines/
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby EdwinSm » Sat 27 Apr 2019, 01:10:26

That was interesting, but probably they are for the Baltic shipping rather than Arctic shipping. One of the probable roots (on which Finnlines currently sails) is just north* of the island we are living on, and we occasionally see one of their ships (or one of two other passenger lines) when we have to take the small ferries between islands.


* measured in just 100s of metres/yards - the fair-lanes here can be very very narrow!
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 27 Apr 2019, 05:40:20

EdwinSm wrote:That was interesting, but probably they are for the Baltic shipping rather than Arctic shipping. One of the probable roots (on which Finnlines currently sails) is just north* of the island we are living on, and we occasionally see one of their ships (or one of two other passenger lines) when we have to take the small ferries between islands.


* measured in just 100s of metres/yards - the fair-lanes here can be very very narrow!


The thing to remember IMO is nce a design is built and proven using it as a model for additional units is generally cheaper than the first prototype or protype run of vessels. RO-RO ferries are a pretty common type and having a top grade ice class design for copying should be a useful event. For example the ferries that cross Lake Michigan are all very old and shut down during winter season. A ship of this new design could make the Michigan-Wisconsin run year around. Not to mention ferries to Newfoundland from Nova Scotia Canada or up the west coast from Washington to Alaska and British Columbia.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 28 May 2019, 15:57:23

Russia launches third nuclear ice breaker.

This could have gone in the Mitigation and adaption thread equally as well.

https://gcaptain.com/putins-arctic-plan ... hange-bet/

The reason for this gap may well lie in the two countries’ different approaches to climate change. The U.S. oscillates between recognizing it as an emergency and, most recently under President Donald Trump, full-on skepticism. Russian President Vladimir Putin, for his part, has expressed doubt that human activity is causing climate change, but he doesn’t deny that it’s taking place.

Putin’s attitude is that people can’t do much to stop climate change, and that makes adapting to it a long game. While he recognizes that the frequent droughts and floods that come with climate change can hurt Russian agriculture, he also sees the opportunities that come with a warmer climate, including a more navigable Arctic Ocean.

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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby dissident » Tue 28 May 2019, 18:35:55

Newfie wrote:Russia launches third nuclear ice breaker.

This could have gone in the Mitigation and adaption thread equally as well.

https://gcaptain.com/putins-arctic-plan ... hange-bet/

The reason for this gap may well lie in the two countries’ different approaches to climate change. The U.S. oscillates between recognizing it as an emergency and, most recently under President Donald Trump, full-on skepticism. Russian President Vladimir Putin, for his part, has expressed doubt that human activity is causing climate change, but he doesn’t deny that it’s taking place.

Putin’s attitude is that people can’t do much to stop climate change, and that makes adapting to it a long game. While he recognizes that the frequent droughts and floods that come with climate change can hurt Russian agriculture, he also sees the opportunities that come with a warmer climate, including a more navigable Arctic Ocean.



It's not skepticism. There will be significant ice formation in the Arctic Ocean for 6 months of the year even 2100. Most merchant vessels are not built for ice breaking even 50 cm of ice. And it is unlikely that there will be any transition to all-purpose vessels able to break through 1.5 m of ice the short run. So dedicated and large ice breakers will be needed for decades to come. Sure, there will be "ice free" shipping for a few months a year after 2050. But the demand is for year-round shipping.

If one believes civilization will fail shortly after 2050, then long term plans are useless. But the global economy is unlikely to disappear by 2050. The change in the coming 20-30 years is going to happen but not catastrophically.

BTW, Pompeo is running around bleating as if Russia's EEZ and territorial waters are some sort of variant of the South China Sea conflict. This windbag knows that in the coming 20 years the North-East passage will be hugging the Russian coast and thinks the US Navy will be in command. It's not Putin's views on climate change that should concern westerners.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 29 May 2019, 05:29:31

Dis,

Valid points. Always appreciate your point of view. Outside the box.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 29 May 2019, 14:35:06

And related news. US mothballs ice rated tanker. No clue of replacement.

https://gcaptain.com/sad-the-last-t-5-t ... othballed/
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:23:16

Reuters wrote:Arctic sea route opens for the summer with first Yamal LNG cargo

LONDON, July 5 (Reuters) - A liquefied natural gas (LNG) tanker carrying a cargo from the Yamal LNG plant has spent this week making its way through Arctic waters north of Russia towards Asia, marking the first voyage of the 2019 summer season across the Northern Sea Route.

The Vladimir Rusanov, an Arc7-classed LNG tanker that can plough through semi-cleared waters, left the Sabetta port on June 29 and is in the Chukchi Sea close to the Bering Strait, Refinitiv Eikon shipping data showed on Friday.

The route is frozen for most of the year but is being increasingly used during the summer as ice clears quicker and for longer as the climate changes. Vessels are now able to cross the route without the use of ice-breakers to clear their path.

Independent Russian gas producer Novatek began operations at Yamal, in northwest Russia, with the aim to ship some of the LNG eastwards with its Arc7 tankers. Last year, as the terminal was ramping operations it began in December 2017, four such tankers were sent eastwards.

For Novatek, the route is attractive because it gives a much more direct access to the world's largest LNG consumers in Asia. For other shipping companies, the route has the potential to cut the costs and time to access Asian markets.

PetroChina, the international arm of Chinese state energy firm CNPC, is a 20 percent stakeholder as well as customer of Yamal, with French oil major Total holding another 20 percent stake.

Novatek is expected to take a final decision to build Arctic LNG 2, another liquefaction and export facility next to Yamal, very soon after selling stakes to Total, two Chinese and two Japanese companies.

The Northern Sea Route is attracting other shipping firms: Maersk, the world's largest container shipping company, sent a test vessel along the route last summer while Dubai government-controlled DP World said last month it wanted to run ports along the route.

Climate change activists lament the use of (the) route however, because (they) fear it will spoil pristine environments while encouraging shipping, a contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. (Reporting by Sabina Zawadzki; Editing by Jon Boyle)


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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Sep 2019, 13:14:44

Don’t tell Trump or Rocdoc but it looks like the Ruskies believe in global warming.

Russia expects shipping along the Northern Sea Route in to increase more than four-fold by 2024 compared to 2018 levels.


https://gcaptain.com/northern-sea-route ... e-by-2024/
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 07 Sep 2019, 15:39:55

Newfie wrote:Don’t tell Trump or Rocdoc but it looks like the Ruskies believe in global warming.

Russia expects shipping along the Northern Sea Route in to increase more than four-fold by 2024 compared to 2018 levels.


https://gcaptain.com/northern-sea-route ... e-by-2024/


It gets a little more popular year by year until we hit a tipping point, then this trickle will become a virtual flood in a single season. Imagine if some terror group were to sink a few large ships in the Suez Canal in such a way that it would take months to get them removed. As I recall the 1973 Arab-Israeli war closed the canal for half a decade until Jimmy Carter negotiated a settlement. It doesn't have to be anything so grand as that, just a closure of several months from say June 1-September 30 in almost any year. The shipping companies would jump on the chance to use the shorter route if everyone was doing it. Large companies hate looking like they are doing something risky to the share holders, but if everyone is doing it then the appearance is necessity, not wild risk.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:24:12

The US, both Coast Guard and Navy, doesn't appear to understand the implications of Arctic Shipping. No serious patrols, no " Arctic bases to work from...Asleep at the switch, AGAIN!
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:52:39

Don’t tell Trump or Rocdoc but it looks like the Ruskies believe in global warming.


well that's odd, the article doesn't mention global warming or ice melt or anything related. But I guess you already made up in your mind what was going on. Good to see your reading comprehension is right up there with the rest of the alarmists! :roll:
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 10 Sep 2019, 14:59:36

Well it mentions traveling through previously impassable passages, and previous articles have repeatedly made the point that it’s because of climate change.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 10 Sep 2019, 17:43:41

Well it mentions traveling through previously impassable passages, and previous articles have repeatedly made the point that it’s because of climate change.


Proxy data indicates the Arctic was pretty much ice-free a couple of times in the past 5000 years, I guess that must have been all the Australopithecus and neanderthals running around making CO2 in the atmosphere.
The current downturn in Arctic sea ice began in the late 1800's and industrial society really didn't start adding inordinate amounts of greenhouse gases into the system until about 1950.
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Re: Arctic shipping to conserve energy.

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 10 Sep 2019, 18:29:51

Show me some research to show that. Because all the ice graphs I’ve seen don’t indicate that at all. In fact I really like to see the source for ice data going back to the late 1800’s.
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