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THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 03:39:45

Tanada wrote:I firmly disagree with this viewpoint. When Nuclear came in with Gen I prototype stations it was more expensive than fossil fuels, but the first few Gen II plants came in with as cheap or cheaper than coal electricity. Then the Lobbyists got to work and the avalanche of new "Safety measures" started getting passed...


Well I for one think reactor design could use even more regulation. Chernobyl and Fukushima are unmitigated disasters, still! Little is said in the western press these days, and much of what happened in Japan was hushed up but the fact is there are whole regions that are uninhabitable and forests blanketed in plutonium still. Now the Japanese want to dump millions of tons of highly radioactive water into the ocean simply because they have no other solution. Which reactor will be next?
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 07:26:10

theluckycountry wrote:
Tanada wrote:I firmly disagree with this viewpoint. When Nuclear came in with Gen I prototype stations it was more expensive than fossil fuels, but the first few Gen II plants came in with as cheap or cheaper than coal electricity. Then the Lobbyists got to work and the avalanche of new "Safety measures" started getting passed...


Well I for one think reactor design could use even more regulation. Chernobyl and Fukushima are unmitigated disasters, still! Little is said in the western press these days, and much of what happened in Japan was hushed up but the fact is there are whole regions that are uninhabitable and forests blanketed in plutonium still. Now the Japanese want to dump millions of tons of highly radioactive water into the ocean simply because they have no other solution. Which reactor will be next?


#1 the RBMK Chernobyl design was created more than fifty years ago and was modified to avoid a repeat accident more than 30 years ago. 85 percent of the "Chernobyl exclusion zone" is no more radioactive than the mountains of Australia or New Zealand and pretending it is deadly dangerous is ignorance on a level rarely paralleled in human history.

CNN

Science.org

#2 the Fukishima accident was because of a massive tsunami and it wasn't the reactors that failed, it was the common every day diesel generators that were swamped in tsunamis water that failed. Of the six reactors on site three melted down because of the generator problem and three were undamaged except for the tsunami effects which destroyed the infrastructure around them. There was no radioactive plume of plutonium fallout like some in the media claimed early on and the remediation of the soil that was actually contaminated was completed several years ago. The main reason part of the land remains vacant is chemical contamination caused by the tsunami destroying industrial sites, not nuclear fallout.

Soil Cleanup

#3 The water stored at Fukushima is so weakly radioactive you could drink the stuff for 80 years and never suffer any detectable illness from it. Chinese media has made a huge deal out of this water despite the fact that their own coal power plants are emitting a thousand times more radiations every day in the form of contaminated fly ash into the air their own people breathe. The whole issue is nothing but a propaganda tactic to distract people from their own pollution which is vastly worse. Radiation from flyash is below danger levels but is vastly higher than the radiation in the "wastewater" being discharged, you can not have it both ways. If you are going to scream about a non issue screaming about the minor one while ignoring the major one is the height of hypocrisy.

IAEA Wastewater Report

Flyash
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 14:40:51

Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby careinke » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 23:30:40

theluckycountry wrote:Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.


+1

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 19 Aug 2023, 05:56:01

careinke wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.


+1

Peace


No, not Alabama inke. The children of Chernobyl
https://newint.org/features/2005/09/01/chernobyl/

Image

Image

Image


And lets not forget the victims of Agent-Orange in Vietnam

Image

https://www.bygonely.com/agent-orange-v ... etnam-war/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 19 Aug 2023, 19:42:31

Which part of "The rate of genetic defects remains unchanged" is unclear?

There have always been unfortunates who lose the genetic lottery and unless we get a great deal better at genetic engineering there always will be unfortunate persons who lose that particular situation.

On the other hand the "Children of Love Canal" are a real verified spike in genetic mutations from upstate NY where chemical waste was improperly buried and leaked into the ground water supply poisoning thousands of Americans.

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 21 Aug 2023, 05:11:02

The 2005 a UN report found that fewer than 50 people died as a direct result of the Chernobyl accident, and estimated 4000 could die from radiation exposure in total. If you want to feel good about Chernobyl or Fukushima then reading UN reports is the way to go. Better yet read reports from TEPCO, the Japanese power utility.

Personally I don't care either way as we have no nuclear plants down here that can blow their tops. We do make quite a bit selling the Uranium to the nations up in the northern hemisphere though, so if I was asked to vote on the issue, so to speak, I'd say Hell Yeah, send that stuff North.

Fukushima Daiichi Accident
(Updated January 2023)
There have been no deaths or cases of radiation sickness from the nuclear accident, but over 100,000 people were evacuated from their homes as a preventative measure. Government nervousness has delayed the return of many.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... ident.aspx

Phew, that's good news. The https://world-nuclear.org/ site has some excellent articles on it, all positive and upbeat too :)
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 15 Sep 2023, 03:47:22

G&Ts Collaborate on First Recommissioned Nuclear Plant in U.S. History
Commissioned in 1970, the mothballed Palisades Nuclear Power Plant in Covert, Michigan, could be restarted to provide electricity for two G&Ts by late 2025.

Two generation cooperatives serving members in Michigan, Indiana and southeastern Illinois plan to meet future demand for electricity with the restart of a nuclear power plant that suspended operations last year.

The Palisades Nuclear Power Plant, located on the southeastern shore of Lake Michigan, could become the country’s first utility-scale nuclear plant recommissioned to help meet demand for zero-emission electricity.

“The restart of Palisades offers a practical, long-term solution to electric reliability in our state and aligns with Michigan’s ambitious goals to reduce carbon emissions,” said Eric Baker, CEO of Wolverine Power.

The Cadillac, Michigan-based G&T and Hoosier Energy, headquartered in Bloomington, Indiana, have contracted with Holtec International for the total output from the 800-megawatt plant. Investor owners of the plant are seeking financing and regulatory approval to refuel and recommission the plant with a goal of resuming its operations by late 2025.

“The Palisades Nuclear Power Plant power purchase agreement is an ideal fit for Hoosier Energy’s long-range resource plan priorities,” said Donna Walker, Hoosier Energy’s president and CEO.

Walker added that the agreement with Holtec will provide several benefits to distribution co-op members, including baseload reliability and resource adequacy. It will also help both G&Ts diversify their generation portfolios, stabilize rates and predict future costs with an environmentally sustainable power source.

Palisades Nuclear Power Plant operated between 1970 through 2022, and plant facilities were constantly updated to meet regulatory requirements and modern operational standards.

Restoration of the plant’s operations will also add more than 600 high-paying jobs to the southwestern Michigan economy.

“The repowering of Palisades ensures Michigan has sufficient energy to meet future demand and mitigate the impact of climate change,” said Kelly Trice, president of Holtec Nuclear Generation and Decommissioning.

Holtec, based in Jupiter, Florida, maintains and services more than 100 nuclear power plants worldwide. The company also provides heat exchangers and other components essential to power plant operations, and before purchasing Palisades last year, began managing its decommissioning when power production was suspended in May 2022.

Once plant acquisition was completed last December, Holtec began working toward a restart, and the power purchase agreements are a significant milestone toward reopening the plant.

Trice has cited the benefits of local tax base expansion and potential regional economic growth as benefits of recommissioning in presentations to state elected officials. Holtec has also held several public meetings to keep local consumers informed of the plans to restart the plant.

Construction of the 432-acre Palisades site began in 1967 and was completed three years later. Between 1970 and 2022, the plant consistently achieved the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s highest safety ratings while producing record-breaking production goals, and it was recognized by the industry for its high performance.

Beyond local permanent jobs, plant operations require an additional 1,000 specialty workers every 18 months for scheduled refueling and maintenance. Its shutdown in 2022 led to the loss of more than 700 jobs and over $200 million in economic activity in three Michigan counties. Overall tax benefits lost since the plant’s closure in Michigan’s Van Buren County are estimated to top $10 million annually.

The power purchase agreements commit Wolverine to take the bulk of the plant’s energy production after its restart, with Hoosier Energy receiving the balance.

“This is a tremendous win for electric cooperatives and demonstrates our ability to collaborate and innovate for our members and the hundreds of thousands of member-consumers we serve,” said Hoosier Energy’s Walker.

Once the plant is recommissioned, 23 distribution co-ops serving more than 1 million homes in 64 Midwestern counties will have access to more reliable and sustainable baseload electricity.

“Palisades plays a vital role in Michigan’s energy landscape, particularly since our state depends on power imports up to 88% of the time,” said Wolverine’s Baker. “In the short term, restarting the plant before impending coal plant retirements is essential to maintaining electric reliability. Looking ahead, Palisades offers one long-term solution to provide price stability, reliability and a path towards decarbonization.”


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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 20 Oct 2023, 03:17:11

EU countries break deadlock on power market subsidies

LUXEMBOURG, Oct 17 (Reuters) - European Union countries' energy ministers struck a deal to reform power market subsidies, Spain's energy minister said on Tuesday, defusing a stand-off between France and Germany over the future competitiveness of industrial sectors.

The European Commission proposed changes to the EU's electricity market in March after EU power prices soared to record levels last year as Russian gas supplies were cut following the invasion of Ukraine.

The new rules seek to shift to longer term, fixed-price contracts to protect consumers from volatile energy markets. They were also aimed at improving the investment climate for new renewable energy projects and in turn improve the bloc's energy security.

The deal struck on Tuesday focused on a section of the law spelling out how state aid can be used to support power projects. Talks had stalled for months because of concerns, especially from Germany, that the scheme could distort competition and favour France, which has the world's second biggest nuclear fleet after the U.S.

"It should help protect consumers against a future emergency and future crises. The most significant factor is that there was almost unanimity," Spain's Energy Minister Teresa Ribera told reporters. Only Hungary abstained.

A compromise proposal by Spain, which holds the EU's rotating presidency and chaired Tuesday's meeting, said future state aid for new renewable and nuclear power plants must take the form of "contracts for difference" subsidies based on a set price for energy.

These contracts guarantee a minimum price for energy produced but also allows governments to recover excess revenues if prices jump past a set threshold.

However, a preamble was added to the law that said governments can use such contracts for existing power plants when significant investments are made in the plant to expand its capacity or extend its life.

The preamble was a concession to France which wanted to be able to apply the new rules to its existing nuclear plants, which produce 70% of its electricity.

But in a nod to Germany, the proposals said the subsidies must be designed so that use of revenues raised, such as support for local industries, does not distort competition or trade in the EU.

Berlin had feared that France's nuclear fleet would allow the country to offer fixed-price power contracts to its ageing nuclear energy fleet - then spend revenues generated by these government-backed contracts on subsidising industries.

"Despite great stress, we managed to do it together," Germany's environment and economy minister Robert Habeck said in a statement.

"With the new electricity market design ... consumers in particular will benefit from the cheap production costs of non-fossil fuel energies. This is also important to ensure the transition to competitive prices in Europe."

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, is on the edge of a recession after losing access to the ample supply of cheap Russian gas it received before Moscow invaded Ukraine last year.

"The situation for European consumers was pretty delicate because ... as a whole the gas price dictated the price of electricity without taking into account real production costs," the French presidency said.

The agreement struck on Tuesday represents a "major victory for France", it added, as its citizens to benefit from the competitive costs stemming from nuclear power.

Reporting by Julia Payne, Kate Abnett, Benjamin Mallet in Paris and Markus Wacket in Frankfurt; editing by Barbara Lewis, Silvia Aloisi and David Gregorio


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Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 09 Nov 2023, 14:35:45

Switzerland To Keep Nuclear Plants Operating For Longer Than Planned

I didn't even know they had any?
Nov 07, 2023, Switzerland’s nuclear power plant operators plan to keep the facilities operational for longer than initially planned, spokespeople for the large Swiss utilities Axpo Holding and Alpiq Holding told Bloomberg on Tuesday.

Switzerland has four nuclear reactors, which generate up to 40% of its electricity, according to the World Nuclear Association. The Swiss voted in a 2017 referendum to phase out nuclear power but Switzerland has not set a deadline for this and it’s up to operators to decide how long they could operate the plants safely. Now the energy crisis and concerns about the reliability of electricity supply in the country has prompted utilities to look to extend the lives of the reactors as long as the extension of the operations is found to be safe.

Axpo Holding and Alpiq Holding have increased the planned lifespan for their nuclear power plants to 60 years from a previous target of 50 years, which means they could be in operation until around 2040, according to the spokespeople who spoke to Bloomberg. Alpiq is also considering an extension to as many as 80 years and is studying the possible impacts of such an extension on safety, investments, and profitability, the Alpiq spokesperson told Bloomberg.

Several countries in Europe also plan to keep nuclear power use for longer, including France, a large nuclear power generating country. But Germany, Europe’s largest economy, earlier this year ditched nuclear energy after taking its last three nuclear power plants offline in April, ending more than six decades of commercial nuclear energy use.

Switzerland, for its part, has been trying to cope with last year’s energy crisis. The country has recently repealed an ordinance from 2022 allowing drawdowns from its strategic fuel stockpiles after supply of petroleum products has now normalized. Last year, Switzerland started to release oil from its emergency reserves as it lowered the obligatory levels of petroleum stocks by 6.5% due to low water levels on the Rhine River and chaos in railway transportation.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... anned.html

I remember reading a comment once, by James Howard Kunstler? That if the world wanted to keep the lights on it would have to go nuclear. Here, I found it.

Straight Talk with James Howard Kunstler: “The world is going to get rounder and bigger again” November 17, 2010
Q3. If you were President and had free reign, what would be your energy plan?

JHK:
I would commence a public debate on whether we go forward with a nuclear power program, to weigh the hazards involved — but, frankly, there may be no other ways to keep the lights on in a decade or so. It may turn out that we are too short of capital to carry out such a program, or our society may be too disorderly in the years ahead to run it, or we may decide the hazards are not worth it, but the discussion must start now.
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2010 ... ger-again/

The disturbing part of this story though is that there are no plans to build new plants, just push the old ones well beyond their design life. As I have noted before, this is driven by the basic economics of nuclear plant decommissioning. It is Very expensive to shutdown and clean up, whereas is you just continue to operate a plant you continue to make income. Nothing is going according to the original plans anymore, it's all just ad-hoc solutions.
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