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THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 03:39:45

Tanada wrote:I firmly disagree with this viewpoint. When Nuclear came in with Gen I prototype stations it was more expensive than fossil fuels, but the first few Gen II plants came in with as cheap or cheaper than coal electricity. Then the Lobbyists got to work and the avalanche of new "Safety measures" started getting passed...


Well I for one think reactor design could use even more regulation. Chernobyl and Fukushima are unmitigated disasters, still! Little is said in the western press these days, and much of what happened in Japan was hushed up but the fact is there are whole regions that are uninhabitable and forests blanketed in plutonium still. Now the Japanese want to dump millions of tons of highly radioactive water into the ocean simply because they have no other solution. Which reactor will be next?
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 07:26:10

theluckycountry wrote:
Tanada wrote:I firmly disagree with this viewpoint. When Nuclear came in with Gen I prototype stations it was more expensive than fossil fuels, but the first few Gen II plants came in with as cheap or cheaper than coal electricity. Then the Lobbyists got to work and the avalanche of new "Safety measures" started getting passed...


Well I for one think reactor design could use even more regulation. Chernobyl and Fukushima are unmitigated disasters, still! Little is said in the western press these days, and much of what happened in Japan was hushed up but the fact is there are whole regions that are uninhabitable and forests blanketed in plutonium still. Now the Japanese want to dump millions of tons of highly radioactive water into the ocean simply because they have no other solution. Which reactor will be next?


#1 the RBMK Chernobyl design was created more than fifty years ago and was modified to avoid a repeat accident more than 30 years ago. 85 percent of the "Chernobyl exclusion zone" is no more radioactive than the mountains of Australia or New Zealand and pretending it is deadly dangerous is ignorance on a level rarely paralleled in human history.

CNN

Science.org

#2 the Fukishima accident was because of a massive tsunami and it wasn't the reactors that failed, it was the common every day diesel generators that were swamped in tsunamis water that failed. Of the six reactors on site three melted down because of the generator problem and three were undamaged except for the tsunami effects which destroyed the infrastructure around them. There was no radioactive plume of plutonium fallout like some in the media claimed early on and the remediation of the soil that was actually contaminated was completed several years ago. The main reason part of the land remains vacant is chemical contamination caused by the tsunami destroying industrial sites, not nuclear fallout.

Soil Cleanup

#3 The water stored at Fukushima is so weakly radioactive you could drink the stuff for 80 years and never suffer any detectable illness from it. Chinese media has made a huge deal out of this water despite the fact that their own coal power plants are emitting a thousand times more radiations every day in the form of contaminated fly ash into the air their own people breathe. The whole issue is nothing but a propaganda tactic to distract people from their own pollution which is vastly worse. Radiation from flyash is below danger levels but is vastly higher than the radiation in the "wastewater" being discharged, you can not have it both ways. If you are going to scream about a non issue screaming about the minor one while ignoring the major one is the height of hypocrisy.

IAEA Wastewater Report

Flyash
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 14:40:51

Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby careinke » Fri 18 Aug 2023, 23:30:40

theluckycountry wrote:Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.


+1

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 19 Aug 2023, 05:56:01

careinke wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:Wow, what can I say. Go nuclear Go.


+1

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No, not Alabama inke. The children of Chernobyl
https://newint.org/features/2005/09/01/chernobyl/

Image

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And lets not forget the victims of Agent-Orange in Vietnam

Image

https://www.bygonely.com/agent-orange-v ... etnam-war/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 19 Aug 2023, 19:42:31

Which part of "The rate of genetic defects remains unchanged" is unclear?

There have always been unfortunates who lose the genetic lottery and unless we get a great deal better at genetic engineering there always will be unfortunate persons who lose that particular situation.

On the other hand the "Children of Love Canal" are a real verified spike in genetic mutations from upstate NY where chemical waste was improperly buried and leaked into the ground water supply poisoning thousands of Americans.

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Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
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Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 21 Aug 2023, 05:11:02

The 2005 a UN report found that fewer than 50 people died as a direct result of the Chernobyl accident, and estimated 4000 could die from radiation exposure in total. If you want to feel good about Chernobyl or Fukushima then reading UN reports is the way to go. Better yet read reports from TEPCO, the Japanese power utility.

Personally I don't care either way as we have no nuclear plants down here that can blow their tops. We do make quite a bit selling the Uranium to the nations up in the northern hemisphere though, so if I was asked to vote on the issue, so to speak, I'd say Hell Yeah, send that stuff North.

Fukushima Daiichi Accident
(Updated January 2023)
There have been no deaths or cases of radiation sickness from the nuclear accident, but over 100,000 people were evacuated from their homes as a preventative measure. Government nervousness has delayed the return of many.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... ident.aspx

Phew, that's good news. The https://world-nuclear.org/ site has some excellent articles on it, all positive and upbeat too :)
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 10 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 15 Sep 2023, 03:47:22

G&Ts Collaborate on First Recommissioned Nuclear Plant in U.S. History
Commissioned in 1970, the mothballed Palisades Nuclear Power Plant in Covert, Michigan, could be restarted to provide electricity for two G&Ts by late 2025.

Two generation cooperatives serving members in Michigan, Indiana and southeastern Illinois plan to meet future demand for electricity with the restart of a nuclear power plant that suspended operations last year.

The Palisades Nuclear Power Plant, located on the southeastern shore of Lake Michigan, could become the country’s first utility-scale nuclear plant recommissioned to help meet demand for zero-emission electricity.

“The restart of Palisades offers a practical, long-term solution to electric reliability in our state and aligns with Michigan’s ambitious goals to reduce carbon emissions,” said Eric Baker, CEO of Wolverine Power.

The Cadillac, Michigan-based G&T and Hoosier Energy, headquartered in Bloomington, Indiana, have contracted with Holtec International for the total output from the 800-megawatt plant. Investor owners of the plant are seeking financing and regulatory approval to refuel and recommission the plant with a goal of resuming its operations by late 2025.

“The Palisades Nuclear Power Plant power purchase agreement is an ideal fit for Hoosier Energy’s long-range resource plan priorities,” said Donna Walker, Hoosier Energy’s president and CEO.

Walker added that the agreement with Holtec will provide several benefits to distribution co-op members, including baseload reliability and resource adequacy. It will also help both G&Ts diversify their generation portfolios, stabilize rates and predict future costs with an environmentally sustainable power source.

Palisades Nuclear Power Plant operated between 1970 through 2022, and plant facilities were constantly updated to meet regulatory requirements and modern operational standards.

Restoration of the plant’s operations will also add more than 600 high-paying jobs to the southwestern Michigan economy.

“The repowering of Palisades ensures Michigan has sufficient energy to meet future demand and mitigate the impact of climate change,” said Kelly Trice, president of Holtec Nuclear Generation and Decommissioning.

Holtec, based in Jupiter, Florida, maintains and services more than 100 nuclear power plants worldwide. The company also provides heat exchangers and other components essential to power plant operations, and before purchasing Palisades last year, began managing its decommissioning when power production was suspended in May 2022.

Once plant acquisition was completed last December, Holtec began working toward a restart, and the power purchase agreements are a significant milestone toward reopening the plant.

Trice has cited the benefits of local tax base expansion and potential regional economic growth as benefits of recommissioning in presentations to state elected officials. Holtec has also held several public meetings to keep local consumers informed of the plans to restart the plant.

Construction of the 432-acre Palisades site began in 1967 and was completed three years later. Between 1970 and 2022, the plant consistently achieved the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s highest safety ratings while producing record-breaking production goals, and it was recognized by the industry for its high performance.

Beyond local permanent jobs, plant operations require an additional 1,000 specialty workers every 18 months for scheduled refueling and maintenance. Its shutdown in 2022 led to the loss of more than 700 jobs and over $200 million in economic activity in three Michigan counties. Overall tax benefits lost since the plant’s closure in Michigan’s Van Buren County are estimated to top $10 million annually.

The power purchase agreements commit Wolverine to take the bulk of the plant’s energy production after its restart, with Hoosier Energy receiving the balance.

“This is a tremendous win for electric cooperatives and demonstrates our ability to collaborate and innovate for our members and the hundreds of thousands of member-consumers we serve,” said Hoosier Energy’s Walker.

Once the plant is recommissioned, 23 distribution co-ops serving more than 1 million homes in 64 Midwestern counties will have access to more reliable and sustainable baseload electricity.

“Palisades plays a vital role in Michigan’s energy landscape, particularly since our state depends on power imports up to 88% of the time,” said Wolverine’s Baker. “In the short term, restarting the plant before impending coal plant retirements is essential to maintaining electric reliability. Looking ahead, Palisades offers one long-term solution to provide price stability, reliability and a path towards decarbonization.”


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Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
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Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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