[americandream]

The same could be said about any market so I don't understand why people single out gold as though it is the only one that goes up and down? Anyone who bought in the US property market in the early 2000's looked like an idiot after it all blew up, anyone who bought shares leading up to 2008 likewise.

I bought gold in Australia when it was under $1000, well under for a lot of it. Today gold is $1450 australian, so as far as my portfolio is concerned, it is the best investment I have made in a decade. Just because you missed out on buying gold when it was cheap is no need to denigrate it now.

If you are holding gold and happy with it long term, thats all that matters. As for me, I wouldn't hold it as a hedge against the system...not yet anyways. Theres no denigration in there, just a statement of my own preference.

[lasseter]

Sorry, I wasn't refering to your post per se americandream, just the general attitude people have towards gold, much of which I believe does not come from their own thinking but from opinions drilled into them by the media over the past decade. How anyone could say that an asset that began in 2000 at $200/oz and now sits at $1200 was never worth buying is beyond me? It's still a clear winner.

But just like the people who bought condos in 2005, many bought paper gold at $1500+ and now are wondering why they got sucked in. Unfortunately the herd always loses when it comes to investments, how could it be otherwise and the super-rich still be super-rich and getting richer.

It's very hard to operate outside the herd without inside knowledge, you often have to do the very thing you think is unwise.

[americandream]

It's a tough one making these decisions and all you can go by is your own homework and instinct. There aren't any right answers, just ones based on good due diligence. I avoid gold bugs and their analysis but having said that, you have made a choice thats worked out and thats awesome. Thats all that matters at the end of the day, stuff what anyone says.

[radon1]

How anyone could say that an asset that began in 2000 at $200/oz and now sits at $1200 was never worth buying is beyond me? It's still a clear winner.

Looks much higher and faster than gold.

I am in no way a supporter (or otherwise) of investments in bitcoin tough.

[lasseter]

Bitcoin, I know nothing about bitcoin other than you need to be a computer expert to find them or trust one of the many, here today gone tomorrow, traders who will take your money in exchange for them. Does anyone here employ them? Would be interesting to hear their experience on it all.

[lasseter]

I avoid gold bugs and their analysis but having said that, you have made a choice thats worked out and thats awesome.

I avoid them too, especially the ones that rave about technical analysis. I actually went into gold to begin with to avoid the banking system and their questions about where certain large sums of money came from. Since then though I have put my trust in history and the habits of the ubber rich. I might not be rich but I can copy them in this.

[Tanada]

While it is far from cheap Gold is still down quite a bit from the highs it hit last March.
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/gold.aspx?timeframe=1y

[Revi]

I think gold is going to harder to unload when the time comes. But, if it gets nasty it is the ideal way to transport wealth. A tiny bit of gold, sewed into clothing becomes a store of value that is recognized anywhere. Many a refugee family has escaped with a little gold from some country that is heading toward chaos.

[SeaGypsy]

Gold miners will be opening shop in Australia in a big way if the oil price lull keeps up more than a few months. With most of our gold coming from crushed ores the process is extremely dependent on diesel. As farmers turn oil into food, miners turn oil into gold. Unlike food, you can keep gold for a while.

[dolanbaker]

Unlike gold, you can eat food.

[theluckycountry]

Time for a thread on Gold I believe.
Over the past 20 years it's been a solid performer here in Oz, up 460%, from about $500 to $3000 now. I know it has a more subdued history in $US but the fact is the price of gold is fixed against the $US so the benefits are not as obvious there on the short horizon. Though it is up 518% over the 20 years.

It's debatable why it really took off in the 2000's but a part of the story is the massive hoarding by Russia, China and the other BRICS nations. They clearly have a long term strategy that includes Gold



It's a fact that Gold does not generate any dividends etc and this is something that has put people off it, but a 518% increase over 20 years is actually a 26% yield per annum, not bad considering what bank accounts and bonds have been offering over that time frame. And certainly more stable than any shares you could mention.

There was a bit of a pullback in the $Au price middle of last year and I took the opportunity to purchase another 10 oz, That was $25 grand, ouch! But today at $3000/oz the coins are worth $30 grand, and 4 of that would be profit after dealer fees. That's not a bad return, and I don't have to worry about it losing 80% overnight like in a crypto crash. Gold just doesn't do that.



No crystal balls down here, but given the state of the world's finances it's pretty obvious that these gazillions of paper promises owed to everyone in their pension funds are at serious risk of getting defaulted on, like the global currencies are slowly being defaulted on via the inflation mechanism.

A house bug friend of mine decades ago had gone to a seminar and after was espousing to me about how much the price of real estate in London had gone up in the past 300 years. He'd seen the charts, It was a solid 10% pa, a doubling of prices in pounds sterling every 10 years. I said to him, you realize that back then a pound sterling was actually based on the cost of a physical pound of sterling silver?

He didn't understand at all, but the simple fact is those houses back then were not 5 or 10 pound as measured by today's currency values but a literal pile of sterling silver bars, which was quite a lot of money even then. Today's price of a pound of sterling silver? $US 335
https://coinbin.com/sterling-silver-price-per-pound/

It's like when the US was on a gold standard back in the 1920's. A $20 gold coin was worth a lot then, a new house, $6000

And as for houses as an investment...

During the 1920s US house prices reached their highest level in the third quarter of 1929 before falling by 67% at the end of 1932 and hovering around that value for most of the Great Depression. The value of high-end properties strongly co-moved with the stock market between 1929 and 1932. A typical property bought in 1920 would have retained only 56% of its initial value in nominal terms two decades later.
https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=41283

Our world, the world we have know and come to rely on since 1945 is about to be turned on it's head and I for one don't want to get shafted when the rug is pulled on the share market, property, and the banks.

[careinke]

Lucky,

Do you actually have the physical gold or is someone else holding it? If someone else is holding it for you, does it really exist?

If you hold physical possession, how do you buy a cup of coffee with it? How about a refrigerator from five states away? What if you want to send some to a relative in New Zeeland? Do you feel safe now that you publicly announced you are holding that much gold?

When France took back their gold from the U.S., it took France's entire military fleet to protect it while moving it across the pond.

Overall, Gold just seems a little obsolete and cumbersome to use as money.

On the other hand my wife has a lot of gold jewelry. It makes beautiful trinkets, especially the 18 carat stuff. Happy wife, happy life.

Peace

[Tanada]

I realize the Gold thread has been dormant for a while but you guys could at least look and see before starting a new topic. This was a massively posted topic from 2004-2008 and there are a number of archive threads with those dates. Most of our gold bugs have departed but their old posts do still have some value.

[theluckycountry]

Lucky,

Do you actually have the physical gold or is someone else holding it? If someone else is holding it for you, does it really exist?

If you hold physical possession, how do you buy a cup of coffee with it? How about a refrigerator from five states away? What if you want to send some to a relative in New Zeeland? Do you feel safe now that you publicly announced you are holding that much gold?

When France took back their gold from the U.S., it took France's entire military fleet to protect it while moving it across the pond.

Overall, Gold just seems a little obsolete and cumbersome to use as money.

On the other hand my wife has a lot of gold jewelry. It makes beautiful trinkets, especially the 18 carat stuff. Happy wife, happy life.

Peace

You experience seems to be limited to the early 19th century, people don't use gold to buy and sell anymore. Do you use your tesla shares or bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee with? How about a refrigerator from five states away? What if you want to send some to a relative in New Zeeland? Do you feel safe now that you publicly announced you are holding bitcoin?

Your wife seems to know more about gold's value than you careinke. Why don't you go and buy her a beautiful cheap 18ct plated gold necklace and ask her what she thinks of it? Tell her it's pointless spending all the extra money for solid gold since it's only a trinket anyway. Are you seeing a pattern developing here? I do. You simply haven't thought about the investment, you have simply believed all the TV rhetoric about gold over the last decades and swallowed all the marketing about bitcoin and shares. You are exactly where the corporate elites want you, fully invested in paper and digital product that is hopelessly overvalued.

At least if it all turns to shite you have you're wife's jewelry to fall back on. Just like the people in Venezuela and elsewhere have done.

[theluckycountry]

I realize the Gold thread has been dormant for a while but you guys could at least look and see before starting a new topic. This was a massively posted topic from 2004-2008 and there are a number of archive threads with those dates.

Well I did search Tanada, and found nothing relevant, not surprising since that thread was back in 2008.
Also since there is a (IEA) Thread pt 4 topic, and a Methane Thread pt. 2 topic as well as Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 23, I really didn't think it would be an issue...

Most of our gold bugs have departed but their old posts do still have some value.

Perhaps? But like peak oil there was a lot of delusions back then about $300 a gallon gas by 2020. People in the West tend to have short time horizons when it comes to big moves in society and human affairs. They expect it will happen in like an election cycle. Perhaps that's why the average American is so vehement about the presidential candidates, they actually believe 80 years of decay and poor policy can be turned around in 4 years?

[careinke]

You experience seems to be limited to the early 19th century, people don't use gold to buy and sell anymore. Do you use your tesla shares or bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee with? How about a refrigerator from five states away? What if you want to send some to a relative in New Zeeland? Do you feel safe now that you publicly announced you are holding bitcoin?

Your wife seems to know more about gold's value than you careinke. Why don't you go and buy her a beautiful cheap 18ct plated gold necklace and ask her what she thinks of it? Tell her it's pointless spending all the extra money for solid gold since it's only a trinket anyway. Are you seeing a pattern developing here? I do. You simply haven't thought about the investment, you have simply believed all the TV rhetoric about gold over the last decades and swallowed all the marketing about bitcoin and shares. You are exactly where the corporate elites want you, fully invested in paper and digital product that is hopelessly overvalued.

At least if it all turns to shite you have you're wife's jewelry to fall back on. Just like the people in Venezuela and elsewhere have done.

You didn't answer my questions, So I will answer yours and maybe it will inspire you to answer mine.

Of course people don't use gold to buy and sell things anymore, especially Bitcoiners. It is just to cumbersome to use when better options are available.

Of course I don't use stocks to buy a cup of coffee. Stocks are not money. Bitcoin is.

I have used bitcoin to send money to numerous people and organizations in amounts as large as several thousand dollars and as small as $0.0002916116, and I've done it worldwide. Heck, I've even sent Bitcoin to this site.

Yes I feel safe announcing I hold BTC, way safer than letting a bank or exchange hold it for me. You will note I have NEVER said how much BTC I hold, that is just bad OPSEC.

I would not buy cheap plated gold. Gold serves more than one purpose. I will always hold silver and gold in person, but I doubt I'll ever have to use it as barter, but it is there none the less.

Yes I am seeing a pattern here. You seem to jump to rash conclusions. I always do very deep research before making a move, plus I am willing to modify my hypothesis based my research. For instance I no longer buy Proof of Stake (POS) crypto, though I still hold some waiting for Alt coin Season to hit, where I will convert them to BTC or other Crypto backed by BTC.

Sorry my post seemed a little harsh, I'll try and do better. Still I'd like to see your answers, it will help me understand where your type of investor is coming from.

Peace

[AdamB]

Most of our gold bugs have departed but their old posts do still have some value.

Perhaps? But like peak oil there was a lot of delusions back then about $300 a gallon gas by 2020.

No one denies that peak oilers and gold bugs tend to be the same kind of nutter.

People in the West tend to have short time horizons when it comes to big moves in society and human affairs. They expect it will happen in like an election cycle. Perhaps that's why the average American is so vehement about the presidential candidates, they actually believe 80 years of decay and poor policy can be turned around in 4 years?

When the people in Western countries are just...exceptional, anything is possible. Like individuals launching the cars they designed and created to Mars on rockets they built. It must just be in the air or water or something. And then those other places, that can't do basics like cars and rockets, well, maybe it isn't a surprise that they are peak oilers or gold bug nutters?

[AdamB]

Still I'd like to see your answers, it will help me understand where your type of investor is coming from.
Peace

Are gold bugs investors? Or just...gold bugs?

[theluckycountry]

Sorry my post seemed a little harsh, I'll try and do better. Still I'd like to see your answers, it will help me understand where your type of investor is coming from.

Peace

Well your first question was
"Do you actually have the physical gold or is someone else holding it?"
And you followed that up with
" Do you feel safe now that you publicly announced you are holding that much gold? "

Obviously you see the conundrum here, so you can take it that certain questions I will simply choose to not answer. Back in 2007 'abouts' an Australian soldier, a veteran of Iraq, was posting on the Aussie silverstackers forum. He'd invested his whole savings from his tour, over a hundred thousand, into gold coins that he kept in a clear fishing tackle box in a cheap little safe. He had posted several pictures of all this and if he, like most modern people do, had location services activated on his phone the exact GPS data would be embedded in the photo. Anyone with a simple program like exiftool could have extracted the location of his home.

He also traded online buying coins in person off posters, another possible security leak. One night he went out to dinner and came home to find his safe was gone. It was a sad tragic story and everyone was enraged but the simple fact was, he was an idiot! "A fool and his money are soon parted." I knew a coin dealer too, whose house was robbed. He was a bit of a laze-fair guy himself and readily told people what he had hoarded up privately as well as had them come to his house to do transactions.

Buying and holding gold is not like having money in a bank (which can be stolen in a bailout btw) it is a much more serious matter and you have to take your own precautions. I for example wouldn't even be having this discussion if I wasn't hiding behind anonymous emails and a trustworthy VPN. A VPN won't necessarily protect you from government intelligence services, but they aren't in the business of stealing Gold from average citizen.

The safest place to hold gold is actually in a creative hole in the ground but a rated cash safe bolted to the concrete with a few coins in it makes for a good decoy.

[theluckycountry]

The Petrodollar is Dead to China

In 2017 while researching option market-making business ideas in Energy overseas, much was learned about the growing rift between the BRICS and the G7 as it manifested even back then...
Since 2013 global players in Gold (and Oil) had been slowly opening up shop in the East and closing it in the West. Demand had been moving eastward, and related businesses followed that demand...

What was also learned and observed was a growing but inextricable tie forming between Oil, Gold, and the Chinese Yuan. That learning gelled during a conversation between a physical oil trader and this author.

The physical oil trader (paraphrased) said this in 2017:

A few months ago, Russia did some Oil deals with China amounting to about $3BB testing Blockchain connectivity. The deals somehow were done through Seychelles and called for settlement in Yuan with a kind-of embedded call [EDIT- his words not mine-VBL] to convert to Gold on demand. So basically Russia and China did a Gold-for-Oil trade and used Blockchain to verify the Gold in Shanghai for custodial chain purposes.

We had been discussing blockchain potential in Oil and Gold clearing trades. But, long story short, the whole mechanism for Gold re-monetization worldwide was witnessed in a single mind-blowing moment.

https://vblgoldfix.substack.com/p/the-p ... d-to-china

It's no stretch, Gold is always re-monetized during the big financial upheavals surrounding a switch of global reserve currencies. We will no doubt never see it as currency in the hand again but China Russia, and many others are well ahead of amassing enough Gold for the switch. Even Germany demanded it's gold back from the US a couple of years ago. All the nations are getting ready to do business with gold as backing for trade instead of the outdated $US.

Alan Greenspan, when in office, described Gold as a relic. Well fair enough, he was employed by the Federal Reserve and their mission was to facilitate the banks in placing the American public in debt up to it's eyeballs.

From his October 2014 interview at the Council on Foreign Relations

6) “Gold is a currency. It is still, by all evidence, a premier currency, where no fiat currency, including the dollar, can match it.”

From his September 2014 essay, “Golden Rule”

“The broader issue — a return to the gold standard in any form — is nowhere on anybody’s horizon. It has few supporters in today’s virtually universal embrace of fiat currencies and floating exchange rates. Yet gold has special properties that no other currency, with the possible exception of silver, can claim... Today, the acceptance of fiat money — currency not backed by an asset of intrinsic value — rests on the credit guarantee of sovereign nations endowed with effective taxing power, a guarantee that in crisis conditions has not always matched the universal acceptability of gold.”

“If the dollar or any other fiat currency were universally acceptable at all times, central banks would see no need to hold any gold. The fact that they do indicates that such currencies are not a universal substitute. Of the 30 advanced countries that report to the International Monetary Fund, only four hold no gold as part of their reserve balances.”

So there you have it. The people at the top of the Monetary ladder across the Globe are goldbugs, so of what value are the opinions of the little people, the ones mired in debt? They are not goldbugs because they were fed a different meme. The TV told them to buy houses on credit, to invest in Tesla, to load up on Dogecoin. All 'cool' investments, backed by virtually Nothing.