Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:27:47

OK, so Norway is going to use some of its cheap hydro to make motor fuel. In the meantime almost half (48.1 %) of the net electricity generated in the EU-28 in 2015 came from combustible fuels such as natural gas (much of which is imported from Russia), coal and oil. And the majority of the recent increase came from Norway's neighbor Germany. Makes sense to me. LOL. Actually it does if Norway makes a better profit from selling "blue crude" then electricity.

Nothing personal...just good business on the part of the Norwigians.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11360
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 15:07:03

lpetrich wrote:30 billion barrels ~= 3.7 - 4.1 billion metric tons of crude oil (275 - 300 lbs/bbl).

2 euros/liter ~= 8.86 dollars/gallon at current exchange rates.

Yup. Sorry, I estimated that in my head after looking up the weight of a barrel of crude oil as roughly 300 pounds, but I didn't write it down.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10064
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 15:16:02

baha wrote:That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Cool, yes. But affordable or scalable? Maybe not.

Call it 4+ billion tons of crude consumed a year, based on 35 billion barrels or so as ballpark figures I found.

So with this plant producing 8 thousand tons a year, it would take a MILLION of them to produce 8 billion tons.

So 500,000ish to produce the 4 billion tons of oil consumed today, for roughly $8 to $9 a gallon of gasoline equivalent price of the oil products the world needs.

FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND PLANTS. All consuming a LOT of energy, by the way.

I'd call it cool, interesting, and a good start. But we're a LONG way from a practical, affordable solution on a planetary scale, IMO.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10064
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby lpetrich » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 02:38:13

baha wrote:That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Make some synfuel then pump it down an old oil well?

Might be easier to run the process until one gets wax, then dump the wax into any convenient place. Being solid, it won't leak away.
User avatar
lpetrich
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu 22 Jun 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Zarquon » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 15:15:11

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
baha wrote:That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Cool, yes. But affordable or scalable? Maybe not.

Call it 4+ billion tons of crude consumed a year, based on 35 billion barrels or so as ballpark figures I found.

So with this plant producing 8 thousand tons a year, it would take a MILLION of them to produce 8 billion tons.


Does anyone have a picture of the plant? Assuming they run it 24/7, with 10% downtime, that's a production rate of, hmmm, roughly one ton or cubic meter per hour. The flow rate of your kitchen tap. So whatever you call it, it's not exactly industrial scale production. More like something to set up in a garage. OK, a large garage. With a 20MW wall socket.
Zarquon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri 06 May 2016, 20:53:46

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby aadbrd » Tue 20 Apr 2021, 10:49:46

Synthetic fuels are probably the future of air travel.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... -fuel.html

Will probably make flying prohibitively expensive for most if that's all we're allowed to burn, but better than nothing.
User avatar
aadbrd
permanently banned
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 25 Apr 2021, 11:30:24

aadbrd wrote:Synthetic fuels are probably the future of air travel.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... -fuel.html

Will probably make flying prohibitively expensive for most if that's all we're allowed to burn, but better than nothing.

If electric powered small planes running short hops on some sort of, say, high capacity, light, solid state batteries won't get the job done (10 to 20 years from now), then clearly we'll have to fly a LOT less as a society if we want to live at all sustainably.

With all the communication advances, we don't NEED the vast majority of long distance travel we do -- we just want it.

As for shipping, clearly we need a lot of that to maintain what we consider "reasonable" middle class lifestyles, but we can choose to use far more efficient methods that can be powered by green fuels, such as EV's. It may well cost more and take longer, but though the usual fast crash doomer crowd won't admit it, we CAN live with some inconvenience, even if it induces lots of whining.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10064
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 28 Oct 2022, 01:22:28

A British company now offers "Carbon neutral drop in fuel replacement"
Petrosynthesis: 600 million years in 3 minutes

Synthetic fuels are made using renewable power (wind, solar, geothermal) and efficient industrial processes (carbon capture, electrolysis, thermal reactions) and should not be confused with biofuels or fuels made from waste. The raw materials are just air and water from which are obtained the ingredients carbon dioxide and hydrogen. Zero Petroleum uses Direct FT® (a proprietary and highly advanced version of Fischer-Tropsch) to directly manufacture target fuels (gasoline, kerosene and diesel) at high yield and with no need for refinery upgrading.

Synthetic petroleum is manufactured from hydrogen and carbon dioxide in a chemical process which reverses the oxidation and energy release that occurs during the combustion of any hydrocarbon material. Zero Petroleum calls this process petrosynthesis – an industrial version of the natural process that has taken up to 600 million years to create the fossil fuels we currently consume.


LINK
17 page pdf explaining the process
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16842
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 28 Oct 2022, 13:16:40

Tanada wrote:A British company now offers "Carbon neutral drop in fuel replacement"
Petrosynthesis: 600 million years in 3 minutes

Synthetic fuels are made using renewable power (wind, solar, geothermal) and efficient industrial processes (carbon capture, electrolysis, thermal reactions) and should not be confused with biofuels or fuels made from waste. The raw materials are just air and water from which are obtained the ingredients carbon dioxide and hydrogen. Zero Petroleum uses Direct FT® (a proprietary and highly advanced version of Fischer-Tropsch) to directly manufacture target fuels (gasoline, kerosene and diesel) at high yield and with no need for refinery upgrading.

Synthetic petroleum is manufactured from hydrogen and carbon dioxide in a chemical process which reverses the oxidation and energy release that occurs during the combustion of any hydrocarbon material. Zero Petroleum calls this process petrosynthesis – an industrial version of the natural process that has taken up to 600 million years to create the fossil fuels we currently consume.


LINK
17 page pdf explaining the process


I just love the extra energy wasting step...capturing the CO2. Why in the world wouldn't you just skip it and go right to the very thing you want in HYDROcarbons in the first place, the HYDROGEN part? Sure, dealing with EXACTLY the part you want isn't as easy as dealing with natural gas, but it works for fuel cells, direct combustion, etc etc and all it requires is a renewable or nuke energy input. And water. OMG!!!
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 8483
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 29 Oct 2022, 10:45:00

AdamB wrote:
Tanada wrote:A British company now offers "Carbon neutral drop in fuel replacement"
Petrosynthesis: 600 million years in 3 minutes

Synthetic fuels are made using renewable power (wind, solar, geothermal) and efficient industrial processes (carbon capture, electrolysis, thermal reactions) and should not be confused with biofuels or fuels made from waste. The raw materials are just air and water from which are obtained the ingredients carbon dioxide and hydrogen. Zero Petroleum uses Direct FT® (a proprietary and highly advanced version of Fischer-Tropsch) to directly manufacture target fuels (gasoline, kerosene and diesel) at high yield and with no need for refinery upgrading.

Synthetic petroleum is manufactured from hydrogen and carbon dioxide in a chemical process which reverses the oxidation and energy release that occurs during the combustion of any hydrocarbon material. Zero Petroleum calls this process petrosynthesis – an industrial version of the natural process that has taken up to 600 million years to create the fossil fuels we currently consume.


LINK
17 page pdf explaining the process


I just love the extra energy wasting step...capturing the CO2. Why in the world wouldn't you just skip it and go right to the very thing you want in HYDROcarbons in the first place, the HYDROGEN part? Sure, dealing with EXACTLY the part you want isn't as easy as dealing with natural gas, but it works for fuel cells, direct combustion, etc etc and all it requires is a renewable or nuke energy input. And water. OMG!!!


To be fair a drop in fuel replacement for the TRILLIONS of dollar of existing infrastructure would be a very good thing. Think about it, with synthetic diesel gasoline and kerosene every automobile, truck, train locomotive, cargo ship and aircraft we already have sitting around can continue to operate just as they were designed to do. Switching everything to fuel cells or electric motors would require duplicating that several trillion of dollars of machinery.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16842
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Previous

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests