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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby C8 » Sat 03 Sep 2022, 17:32:53

NY Public Housing Authority is banning e-bikes from garages due to multiple fires (and some deaths from these). Apparently a lot of delivery drivers make their own e-bikes from scratch and piece together dangerous vehicles- this is done to save $. Good article @ this in Ars Technica.

It brings up the interesting subject of homemade EV's- which is apparently far more common than homemade ICE vehicles. The future seems to be in customized crafts that will be of various levels of safety.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sun 04 Sep 2022, 14:59:42

Tanada wrote:My question is, why isn't China, Indonesia or India producing vehicles that meet your description for their domestic markets? With their domestic labor costs they would be even less expensive than your nominal $20,000.00 sale price and if the vehicle is really that durable it becomes a multi-generational investment like a home instead of a short term investment that is only worth scrap value in 15 years.


China has been focusing on vehicles much cheaper than that $20,000 price point. The regulations in the U.S. are structured in such a way that the Chinese manufacturers can't afford to comply while selling an affordable product that Americans would buy. There are many 100+ mile range 60+ mph capable EVs for sale in China that cost under $10,000 brand new, and are generally safer than most U.S. cars built since the 1970s, but they're not allowed in this country. The Chinese manufacturers' focus is thus on what the Chinese "middle class" population can afford, and that's generally in the $5,000-10,000 price range.

That being said, there are Chinese companies experimenting with aerodynamics. Here's one:

https://insideevs.com/news/425581/gac-eno146-video-most-aerodynamic-ev/

To build the car I described, aerodynamics of the sort described in the above link are required. U.S. and European automakers have known how to do these sorts of aerodynamics(or close to them) for nearly a century now, but have refused to implement them in production vehicles in part to maintain a paradigm of planned obsolescence. A lot of modern tech in cars reinforces that paradigm. Vehicles are deliberately built to be obsolete the day they leave the lot, to waste resources, to be more expensive to repair than they are worth, and to ultimately be disposable. Car's are far more environmentally disastrous than they could be for a given amount of utility, comfort, performance.

We could have had 70+ mpg 4-cylinder economy cars and 35+ mpg big-block V8 musclecars more than 50 years ago if platform efficiency would have been a major design consideration. This would have also opened the door to 100+ mile range full-sized EVs using golf cart batteries... or double that range with Nickel Iron batteries... in the 1970s. With today's battery tech, 1,000+ miles range is possible if platform efficiency is a major design criterion. Only the highest-end Aptera is claiming such a 1,000 mile range.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Doly » Sun 04 Sep 2022, 16:27:58

It brings up the interesting subject of homemade EV's- which is apparently far more common than homemade ICE vehicles.


They are relatively common, right now, because EVs are a new technology. Homemade or home-altered ICE vehicles were quite common in the early days of ICEs, and all the way to the 60s. If/when the technology matures, homemade EVs will disappear.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sun 04 Sep 2022, 17:19:25

Doly wrote:They are relatively common, right now, because EVs are a new technology. Homemade or home-altered ICE vehicles were quite common in the early days of ICEs, and all the way to the 60s. If/when the technology matures, homemade EVs will disappear.


I built such a vehicle off of a frame. It could carry a week's worth of groceries in the trunk space, was partially enclosed for riding in inclement weather, could top out at 45-50 mph depending upon state of battery charge, was pedalable to 35 mph on flat ground in a sprint with the motor disabled, could do donuts in a parking lot, and only cost $0.15 worth of electricity to fully charge it and travel 150-200 miles at 30-35 mph before needing to plug in again.

It is in the process of receiving upgrades. The body has been removed, I have a new motor in it that allows higher rpm per volt and more peak/continuous horsepower than the motor it used to have, now has a rear suspension in addition to the front suspension, and will soon be receiving its roll cage. After the roll cage is fitted, I can work on finalizing the design for the next body, which will be fully enclosed for riding in severe thunderstorms without getting soaked, and so slippery that 70 mph might be maintainable on 2 horsepower. It is expected to weigh under 100 lbs when complete, but the idea is to have a vehicle that can be fueled by grid electricity, solar power, or if both of those fail, even pedaling it. I'm upgrading it to where it will have mechanical reliability and dynamic stability at 100+ mph(at least on good roads), and if I get the aerodynamics of the next body right, it will be able to maintain 100 mph on only 4 horsepower. It's going to have 13 horsepower or more when I get done with it. 0-60 mph should be under 9 seconds, possibly as low as the upper-6-second range if I can get enough traction from the rear drive wheel. Best of all, if the battery runs dead or the electric drive system fails, I'll still be able to pedal it to 40+ mph in a sprint on flat ground and hold 25+ mph with little effort. When everything is in use, the pedaling can also significantly extend range. I might be looking at a 100+ mile range at 70 mph on a 2 kWh battery if all goes according to plan. The solar panels, on an average day, are expected to deliver 50 miles of range, more on an ideal day. All of the EV drivetrain parts in this rig put together will be under $2,000, purchased retail in one-off quantities, including the solar system and inverter.

THAT is how you do an affordable EV. Aerodynamic efficiency and weight reduction matters a lot. I bet such a vehicle could be mass produced for the same cost as a cheap moped or scooter, but its practicality would more resemble that of a car than any other type of vehicle. The most obvious downside is that there's only room for one person, but most people commute to work alone anyhow.

Depending on how bad things get in the future, this vehicle could become extremely practical. Mostly because the most expensive component of its operating cost is tires, at $0.01/mile, and the wheels are sized so that in a pinch, 20" tires from a child's BMX bike could be used(albeit only safely so at speeds < 35 mph). This thing is designed to keep running even if there's an apocalypse and parts become unobtanium. Even if electricity got to $10.00/kWh but wages stayed the same, such a vehicle would be economical to operate even by today's standards. Same if gasoline got to $100/gallon and you used a generator to charge said vehicle.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 04 Sep 2022, 22:59:09

In Australia


New vehicle sales in August were the best for that month since 2017 in a market where demand continues to outstrip supply, and the appetite for electric vehicles reached a record 4.4 per cent of all new vehicles sold.

The biggest selling vehicle in August was the Toyota Hi-Lux ute , followed by the Ford Ranger ute the Toyota RAV4 SUV was third , followed by the Tesla Model 3 and then the Toyota Landcruiser .

Electric vehicles represented 4.4 per cent of the total new vehicles sold, the highest market share for pure battery electric vehicles ever recorded in a single month in Australia.

On a year-to-date basis, electric vehicles sales are 2 per cent of the total market, with hybrids at 7.6 per cent, and plug-in hybrid vehicles at 0.6 per cent.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby C8 » Mon 05 Sep 2022, 11:12:38

I suspect govt. regulation is hurting the EV market in the US. If we relaxed safety and crash standards, then really cheap EV's could flourish that are just glorified golf carts and the market would take off.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 05 Sep 2022, 13:38:19

C8 wrote:I suspect govt. regulation is hurting the EV market in the US. If we relaxed safety and crash standards, then really cheap EV's could flourish that are just glorified golf carts and the market would take off.


Many of those regulations weren't made for improving safety, but for increasing the expense of compliance. Instead of said regulations being fought against by U.S. automakers, U.S. automakers WROTE them and paid the congress-critters to make them law. There are small, fuel-efficient cars you can buy in Europe that you can crash on the Autobahn at 150 mph and most of the time walk away without injury, cars which will not pass US "safety" regulations, in spite of actually being safer than most of what is available in the U.S. Trucks and SUVs are also held to less-stringent standards than passenger cars in order to promote their manufacture and improve their profitability, and the wealthy can deduct truck and SUV purchases on their taxes as "business expenses" further encouraging the purchase of oversized, resource-intensive vehicles.

These "safety" standards are also hindering ICE powered cars as well as EVs. New vehicles are now beyond the reach of most Americans, with an average transaction price approaching $50,000(while nominal wages are for the most part still close to where they were in the 1990s). Sales haven't slowed; it's been papered over with debt and 6+ year repayment plans, with the lenders collecting a massive cut in the form of interest payments.

The current over-sized, overpriced, wasteful auto fleet of the U.S. is less a creature of free market principles than it is one of government largesse, working in tandem with manufacturers that are averse to the notion of having real competition. The auto industry as it exists today in the developed world is in summation, a racket.

A $5-10k EV from China could actually be a few steps above a glorified golf cart. That's enough money to make something able to seat 5, top 100 mph, and get 80+ miles range in "real world" driving that involves speeding on the freeway, while having safety comparable to U.S./Japanese/European cars from 30 years ago.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 06 Sep 2022, 10:05:50

The_Toecutter wrote:
Doly wrote:They are relatively common, right now, because EVs are a new technology. Homemade or home-altered ICE vehicles were quite common in the early days of ICEs, and all the way to the 60s. If/when the technology matures, homemade EVs will disappear.


I built such a vehicle off of a frame. It could carry a week's worth of groceries in the trunk space, was partially enclosed for riding in inclement weather, could top out at 45-50 mph depending upon state of battery charge, was pedalable to 35 mph on flat ground in a sprint with the motor disabled, could do donuts in a parking lot, and only cost $0.15 worth of electricity to fully charge it and travel 150-200 miles at 30-35 mph before needing to plug in again.


Well Toe, you might think you built such a thing, but for an average user such as myself, I've already pointed out how you don't have something I would buy, me representing Joe Average in terms of my suburban cage use. Partially enclosed during a snow storm or gully washer isn't good enough, a week's worth of groceries for YOU maybe, but with a family of 4 and 2 dogs? 45-50 mph means you are nothing but a slow and wide bicycle to overtaking traffic. And no, we aren't pedaling. And the cost is irrelevant when what you buy doesn't do the job you need it for.

I don't think Doly had 3 wheeled bicycles in mind in terms of what modern Chinese EVs are aiming at.
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Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 06 Sep 2022, 10:11:08

The_Toecutter wrote:A $5-10k EV from China could actually be a few steps above a glorified golf cart. That's enough money to make something able to seat 5, top 100 mph, and get 80+ miles range in "real world" driving that involves speeding on the freeway, while having safety comparable to U.S./Japanese/European cars from 30 years ago.


Indeed. My Leaf cost $8G's unsubsidized and does all these things. It sure is a great glorified golf cart. And the real beauty? No pedaling!!
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Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 06 Sep 2022, 10:42:25

A news story today about Musk's difficulties in improving batteries and cutting cost. Apparently moving a new process to mass production always has a devil in the details.
https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/t ... CT-OUSBS_1
(Reuters) - The secret behind Elon Musk's goal of selling 20 million Tesla's a year by 2030 lies in its pioneering battery technology.

The good news is that by using bigger cells and a new process to dry-coat electrodes, Tesla could halve the cost of a Model Y battery, saving more than 8% of the car's U.S. starting price, battery experts with ties to the company said.

The bad news is that it's only halfway there, according to 12 experts close to Tesla or familiar with its new technology.

That's because the dry-coating technique used to produce the bigger cells in Tesla's 4680 battery is so new and unproven the company is having trouble scaling up manufacturing to the point where the big cost savings kick in, the experts told Reuters.

"They just aren't ready for mass production," said one of the experts close to Tesla.

Still, the gains Tesla has already made in cutting battery production costs in the past two years could help boost profits and extend its lead over most electric vehicle (EV) rivals.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 17:40:05

vtsnowedin wrote:A news story today about Musk's difficulties in improving batteries and cutting cost. Apparently moving a new process to mass production always has a devil in the details.
https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/t ... CT-OUSBS_1
(Reuters) - The secret behind Elon Musk's goal of selling 20 million Tesla's a year by 2030 lies in its pioneering battery technology.

The good news is that by using bigger cells and a new process to dry-coat electrodes, Tesla could halve the cost of a Model Y battery, saving more than 8% of the car's U.S. starting price, battery experts with ties to the company said.

The bad news is that it's only halfway there, according to 12 experts close to Tesla or familiar with its new technology.

That's because the dry-coating technique used to produce the bigger cells in Tesla's 4680 battery is so new and unproven the company is having trouble scaling up manufacturing to the point where the big cost savings kick in, the experts told Reuters.

"They just aren't ready for mass production," said one of the experts close to Tesla.

Still, the gains Tesla has already made in cutting battery production costs in the past two years could help boost profits and extend its lead over most electric vehicle (EV) rivals.

Tesla is something I follow pretty closely, as a proxy for the overall EV industry re pure EV companies (though most are obviously based in China, like BYD, Xpeng, Nio, etc).

The 4680 is going slower than hoped, and thus the cost savings will be less unless that improves.

OTOH, there is lots of evidence they are making real progress with the assembly line difficulties.

Also, overall, the news about battery improvements (not just from Tesla, but generally) is just MUCH better than most would have dreamed of 5 years ago. Between the durability, cost, safety, and rising energy density of LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate), that's TREMENDOUS news for BEV's over time. Now, add to that the success with adding new metals to the cathode of LFP matteries such as magnesium (LMFP or M3P batteries), is just icing on the cake. And they are also working on the Anodes, and trying hybrid approaches, etc. from articles I read and Youtube videos I see from small companies heavy into this.

So maybe the 4680 won't even MATTER much given the other improvements to battery life, fire risk, range, etc, though the structural integrity and efficiency and overall cost trends look very good for Tesla over time, re conferring a lasting competitive advantage.

...

I have friends talking about gettng a BEV next year, and I'm telling them to talk to me before they make a purchase, the way battery improvements are accelerating. It's looking like the heady PC days when every three years, a PC got so much better and/or cheaper that I had to do days of research (again) before advising friends and family on them.

So for example, does one want to take the risk of the newest that's marginally better, or go with something a bit "worse" but with meaningfully more data and competition behind it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaXJlGK_lE

These are FANTASTIC "problems" to have compared to what I was expecting BEV progress to be, even by mid-decade.

Also:

There is news about a new Tesla Model Y variant being sold for about $20K less in Europe than the typical versions start in the US. You give up a little range (but still get about 290 miles) and you give up a couple/few seconds of 0-60 acceleration, but you still get sub seven second 0-60 acceleration which is FINE for a middle class car.

My understanding of much of the cost savings for these is higher energy density is allowing less batteries, which saves weight (allowing even less batteries) and significant money.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 07 Sep 2022, 19:00:38

I hear you on that. I have saved literally thousands of dollars by not having to have the next best computer or cell phone.
But at my age (67) I'm probably only going to buy one more new vehicle in my life so if I want a BEV I may have to take a relatively new model and hope for the best.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 22 Sep 2022, 19:57:30

Another lithium battery fire just happened……this time one of the huge TESLA battery installations at a power station in California spontaneously caught on fire.

Nobody quite understands why all these lithium batteries are spontaneously catching on fire….these lithium battery fires occur in every kind of Li battery….from small batteries in call phone and laptops to bigger Li batteries on electric scooters to EV cars to EV buses to the giant EV batteries being used as backups at power substations. That strikes me as worrisome. Surely with all the engineers at all the car companies working on EVs, some genius somewhere would figure out how to stop Li battery fires and EV fires.

But so far it hasn’t happened. Perhaps it can’t be done….Perhaps lithium batteries are intrinsically unstable and prone to spontaneous combustion and hence potentially dangerous to use…..and perhaps somebody should honestly admit this problem exists before more people get incinerated and die in EV fires.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 22 Sep 2022, 22:37:10

One problem is that geniuses are a lot rarer then problems that need a genius to solve.
They say Musk is one such genius. Perhaps he should put aside the Twitter controversy and a couple of his other plans and concentrate on solving this very big problem.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 22 Sep 2022, 22:50:09

vtsnowedin wrote:One problem is that geniuses are a lot rarer then problems that need a genius to solve.
They say Musk is one such genius. Perhaps he should put aside the Twitter controversy and a couple of his other plans and concentrate on solving this very big problem.


Interestingly, EVs, as expected, aren't the hazard that Plant claims they are. Data and all, trolls involved, etc etc. Interestingly however, hybrids are the worst issue. The article doesn't appear to break out which part of the hybrid decided to self immolate though. Darn that data, catches out Plant doing the faux problem thing yet again.

A recent study from insurance experts AutoinsuranceEZ.com might have some answers. Researchers posed the question, “Are electric vehicles more prone to car fires than gas or hybrid vehicles?” Using data collected and analyzed from sources including the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS), and government recall data from Recalls.gov, researchers broke down incidents of car fires by vehicle and fuel type.

After crunching car fire statistics and sales data, the authors of the study found that hybrids actually have more fires per 100K sales, with:

Hybrid vehicles: 3,474 fires per 100K sales
Gas vehicles: 1,529 fires per 100K sales
Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100K sales


Article
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Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 24 Sep 2022, 12:29:38

vtsnowedin wrote:They say Musk is one such genius. Perhaps he should put aside the Twitter controversy and a couple of his other plans and concentrate on solving this very big problem.


I totally agree with that.

But the mere fact that the Li battery fire issue hasn't already been solved, in spite of the genius of Musk and the dedicated efforts being made all over the world by scientists and engineers to produce EVs with Li batteries that don't spontaneously catch on fire suggests to me that it may not have a solution.

Its starting to look like lithium batteries are inherently unstable and that some small percentage of them are going to spontaneously combust. EV companies keep telling people not to park their EVs next to their homes and never never ever in the garage because the EV may burst into flames with no warning and burn their house down.....and they wouldn't be doing that if there was any way to fix the Li battery problem.

The good news is that a solution may someday be available......as soon as a different and safer EV battery is developed that doesn't use LI.

Image
Its starting to look like lithium batteries are inherently unstable and that the new normal is that some small percentage of EVs are going to spontaneously combust

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 24 Sep 2022, 14:27:49

Plantagenet wrote:Another lithium battery fire just happened……this time one of the huge TESLA battery installations at a power station in California spontaneously caught on fire.

Nobody quite understands why all these lithium batteries are spontaneously catching on fire….these lithium battery fires occur in every kind of Li battery….from small batteries in call phone and laptops to bigger Li batteries on electric scooters to EV cars to EV buses to the giant EV batteries being used as backups at power substations. That strikes me as worrisome. Surely with all the engineers at all the car companies working on EVs, some genius somewhere would figure out how to stop Li battery fires and EV fires.

But so far it hasn’t happened. Perhaps it can’t be done….Perhaps lithium batteries are intrinsically unstable and prone to spontaneous combustion and hence potentially dangerous to use…..and perhaps somebody should honestly admit this problem exists before more people get incinerated and die in EV fires.

Cheers!

Cheers!

You shouldn't say that nobody understands as if it were a true mystery rather than a turn of phrase. Lithium dendrites attempt to cross the gap. If they do, there is a short circuit. I've heard car owners say that they don't ever charge their cars all the way up, and they won't get fires. I've also read where it is because of the rate of charge, irrespective of whether the battery's potential is full. There are, however, actual experts who do know. Maybe they debate about it? Maybe that is why you hint at mystery?

It feels like what you are really trying to do with this approach is to delay EV adoption. I don't think you are trying to quash it. In the last few years you seem to have moved more deliberately to the right too. This may be commensurate with that, I don't know. I was just listening to a story about how the Conservative Party in the UK has done a complete policy 180 economically with their latest proposals. The way you approach the subject of EV's, how you dangle in both acceptance and rejection, may hint that you are about to undergo a similar thing. It looks, from a distance, like you are living through an inflection point.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 24 Sep 2022, 20:56:41

evilgenius wrote: Lithium dendrites attempt to cross the gap. If they do, there is a short circuit.


Image
Why do dendrites grow in some Li batteries leading to spontaneously combustion but not in others?

evilgenius wrote: I've heard car owners say that they don't ever charge their cars all the way up, and they won't get fires.


If that was true then the car companies would design EVs so batteries couldn't be fully charged.

evilgenius wrote:I've also read where it is because of the rate of charge, irrespective of whether the battery's potential is full.


If that were true then EV companies would restrict the rate of charging, rather then working full out to make charging as rapid as possible.

evilgenius wrote:There are, however, actual experts who do know.


If there are experts who know how to stop EV batteries from spontaneously busting into flames, then why can't the EV car companies make EVs that don't spontaneously burst into flames.

evilgenius wrote:It feels like what you are really trying to do with this approach is to delay EV adoption.


It feels as though you are disconnected from reality. Nothing we say or do at this site is gong to have the slightest effect on EV adoption.

evilgenius wrote:In the last few years you seem to have moved more deliberately to the right too.


Thinking climate change is going to destroy the planet is on the right and blasting Obama, Trump and now Biden for their dismal failures to deal with climate change is on the right?

Obviously not.

Try not to make things up.

evilgenius wrote:
The way you approach the subject of EV's, how you dangle in both acceptance and rejection, may hint that you are about to undergo a similar thing. It looks, from a distance, like you are living through an inflection point.


It looks to me like you are having bizarre fantasies rather then actually reading what my posts say.

Look----My posts say what my posts say. Its all really very clear---there is no need to make things up based on your own imaginings.

My point is that a small percentage of the Li batteries in EVs are spontaneously busting into flames. Many EV manufacturers have recalled their EVs due to this problem. Some people have had fires in their homes after their EVs exploded into flames during the night. AND some people have now died after their EV batteries burst into flames.

I think the EV manufacturers should fix this problem.

But they haven't.

So one has to wonder why the EV manufacturers don't manufacture EVs that don't spontaneously burst into flames.

I'm starting to think they can't do it.....It seems to me that there is fundamental problem with Li batteries so that spontaneous combustion events in a small percentage of Li batteries are inevitable.

Which raises more questions.

Such as: What is the actual percentage of EVs batteries that burst into flame?

Does the percentage grow as the EV gets older....i.e. are five year old Li batteries more likely to spontaneously combust then one year old Li batteries?

Are some EVs safer then others? Do Chinese EVs spontaneously combust more often? Or German ones? Or American ones?

Is NHTSA going to do anything to regulate, fix or even ban EVs that spontaneously explode into flames?

AND

When will Li batteries used in EVs today be replaced with something safer?

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 24 Sep 2022, 21:48:14

Plantagenet wrote:When will Li batteries used in EVs today be replaced with something safer?


Dunno. Why would someone doing all the whining about it like you even buy one? Unless you know it isn't a concern but just enjoy the trolling?
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 12

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 26 Sep 2022, 22:37:58

EV owners are waiting years for promised LI battery repairs

spontaneous-electric-vehicle-fires-prompt-recalls-some-owners-stalled-waiting-repairs

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Tens of thousands of EVs have been recalled due to battery fire risk.....but then the EV manufacturers don't actually replace the dangerous Li batteries with something safer.....SHEESH!!!!

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250 million thousand people have died of covid---Joe Biden
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama

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