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Bitcoin & crypto?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 May 2022, 14:01:08

To get back on topic:
Bitcoin today is trading around $29,800 up from it's Thursday morning low of $26,759 but still way below the all time high last November 8th of $65,466.
Still looks like Rat poison to me and I expect a lot of fools will get separated from a lot of their money.
You only have to consider what the people that sold you bitcoin for $65,000 a coin did with your money? Probably not buy more bitcoin or any thing like it.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 13 May 2022, 14:28:37

vtsnowedin wrote:What if anything does a vegan diet have to do about the viability of crypto currencies?


The contrast between a 'correct' solution and an 'incorrect' solution, perhaps.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 May 2022, 15:38:12

jedrider wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:What if anything does a vegan diet have to do about the viability of crypto currencies?


The contrast between a 'correct' solution and an 'incorrect' solution, perhaps.

As in Vegan diets are an incorrect solution to human nutrition so some how that indicates the crypto currencies are also an incorrect medium of economic exchange?
I see now connection between them.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 13 May 2022, 15:40:47

Doly wrote:
The entire website has wandered afield, you are surprised when unrelated items are brought up in unrelated topics to peak oil?


You are right, Adam, but at the same time, vtsnowedin is also right. We should at least attempt to keep things on topic.


Doly you are certainly a voice of reason worth listening to.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 13 May 2022, 16:44:30

vtsnowedin wrote:To get back on topic:
Bitcoin today is trading around $29,800 up from it's Thursday morning low of $26,759 but still way below the all time high last November 8th of $65,466.
Still looks like Rat poison to me and I expect a lot of fools will get separated from a lot of their money.
You only have to consider what the people that sold you bitcoin for $65,000 a coin did with your money? Probably not buy more bitcoin or any thing like it.


First some corrections so we are talking the same numbers. Bitcoins high in November was around $69,200 (My source is Trading View which averages price from multiple exchanges). The previous high was in April at around $65,200. The low this year (so far), for bitcoin was yesterday at $25,200. Today it is back up to $30,000 as I type this.

The all time high in the previous Havening Cycle was in May of 2018 at around 19-20K. Bitcoin has never fallen to the high of any previous Havening Cycle. We are set to test this again and I have another limit Buy order in for $20,200 just in case.

Now to the opinion part. Todays bounce looks like may or may not signal the bottom for this cycle, it could continue upward or drop down and fill yesterdays wick with a candle stick forming a double bottom, and then start the new bull run. I'm in either way.

Now about "RAT Poison"
Maybe cryptocurrency isn’t “rat poison” after all?

Those were once the words of Warren Buffett, the famous investor called the “sage of Omaha” for knowing things before the rest of the market. Now his money is saying otherwise.

Specifically, his company Berkshire Hathaway has bought $1 billion worth of stock in a digital bank that focuses on crypto.

Berkshire Hathaway made its crypto investment public with a SEC filing earlier this week. It revealed that Buffett’s company had purchased $1 billion in shares of Nubank, a digital bank based in Brazil, and the largest of its kind in Latin America.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/16/warren-buffett-invested-1-billion-crypto-bank/

Hmmm even old dogs can learn new tricks. :)

I think the Lightning network is going to be instrumental in the coming success of BTC. Today, I can send dollars to a friend in Japan and he can receive it as dollars, Yen, Bitcoin, or another currency in less time than it takes to refresh your ap on your phone, and it will cost pennies. All of it backed by BTC as a store of value.

It's a good time to buy, blood in the streets, when us OG's see this our eyes light up.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 May 2022, 18:29:36

I just picked my figures off a chart which was probably end of day close numbers or some such. So I have no argument with your figures as mid day highs and lows are often quite different.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 13 May 2022, 18:34:22

I notice Buffet bought shares in the bank not Bitcoin itself. Probably a reason for that. And also what percentage of his holdings did they invest? ).0001 % maybe? I'd have to look it up.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 13 May 2022, 23:41:00

vtsnowedin wrote:I notice Buffet bought shares in the bank not Bitcoin itself. Probably a reason for that. And also what percentage of his holdings did they invest? ).0001 % maybe? I'd have to look it up.


I'm thinking it will be more than that, as Brazil is legalizing Bitcoin and will need BTC to run a lightning node(s) so people can buy cups of coffee. Remember when we had a gold standard? Cash was backed 100% by gold. Now Lightning is acting like cash backed by 100% BTC.

The remittance industry is a dead man walking. It will be completely transformed (gone) by 2024, replaced by cell phone apps.


The number of individual wallets holding more than .01 Bitcoin is at an all time high and shows no sign of slowing down. LOTS of people accumulating as the price falls in this cycle. In addition to Individuals, companies, financial institutions, cities, states, and even countries are adopting Bitcoin in particular and other Shi#t, I mean Alt coins as well.

My goal is to cancel Banks, well at least make them optional so the slaves can stay comfortable.

Of course your financial decisions are your own responsibility not mine. I'm just giving you more information. :idea:

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 13 May 2022, 23:51:25

vtsnowedin wrote:I notice Buffet bought shares in the bank not Bitcoin itself. Probably a reason for that. And also what percentage of his holdings did they invest? ).0001 % maybe? I'd have to look it up.


I may have miss read your intent. It could be possible that his total bitcoin exposure is that low. I have not crunched those numbers. Still the question remains, is a little rat poison OK? :-D

Younger people, engineers, libertarians, and Anarchists seem to catch on quicker.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 14 May 2022, 04:31:20

careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:I notice Buffet bought shares in the bank not Bitcoin itself. Probably a reason for that. And also what percentage of his holdings did they invest? ).0001 % maybe? I'd have to look it up.


I may have miss read your intent. It could be possible that his total bitcoin exposure is that low. I have not crunched those numbers. Still the question remains, is a little rat poison OK? :-D

Younger people, engineers, libertarians, and Anarchists seem to catch on quicker.

Peace

Yes I meant what percent of his and Berkshire Hathaway's holdings which are close to 0.7 trillion. between the A and B stocks.
One family member (distant by marriage) handles a bit of fortune. He says they can buy twenty new offerings each year and if just one of them does well He makes a profit on his investment. Buffet maybe using that "Buy them all" strategy to not miss out entirely if per chance Bitcoin endures.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 14 May 2022, 15:16:35

Bitcoins Highs are irrelevant to any discussion on it's future price, that's just grabbing at straws. The fundamentals of Fear and Greed is all that counts with these assets. But to point out the obvious, that most people have not noticed, these 'coins' are simply digital technologies. They are like Windows XP, or at best the Ipod or the DVD player. If it's one thing we know about technologies they have a big boost phase and are then superseded, to be left in the waste-bin of history.

That is what we are seeing with the great crypto crash of 2022 I believe. People are bored with it and the interest has dried up. No new buyers = falling prices and frustrated baghodlers. It started over a year ago with dogecoin, the broader market was doing fine but people just lost interest in the meme.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 14 May 2022, 15:29:29

vtsnowedin wrote: Yes I meant what percent of his and Berkshire Hathaway's holdings which are close to 0.7 trillion. between the A and B stocks.


Buffett is an insider, he's OUT of the stock market by now. He's been using the taxfree loophole to sell his shares and place the money in private family foundations, which of course, are private :)

This was a year ago.

23 Jun 2021
Wednesday’s announced $4.1 billion marks the latest in a string of annual gifts to those groups aimed at achieving Buffett’s goal of giving away all of his Berkshire Hathaway shares. Buffett possessed 474,998 shares in 2006 and now claims a total of 238,634 shares, making Wednesday’s contributions a halfway point toward transferring them all to foundation ownership.


In 2006, Buffett announced his intent to give away the vast majority of his fortune in annual gifts to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation, the Sherwood Foundation, the Howard G. Buffett Foundation, and the NoVo Foundation. Buffett’s daughter, Susan Alice Buffett, leads the Sherwood Foundation, which formerly bore her own name. The NoVo Foundation operates under the leadership of his son Peter Buffett. Buffet’s son Howard leads the foundation bearing his name.

Of the five routine recipients of Buffett’s donations, only the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is not run, founded by, or named for a member of his family. Buffett had, however, been a trustee of that organization for years before announcing his resignation Wednesday.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2021/ ... undations/

HaHaHa, he hoodwinked everyone, the great oracle bails just before the big collapse. Who knows where that money is now, gold and bonds? Venezuelan farmland? One thing you can bet, it's not in IT stocks or even in Birkshire lol lol lol
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 14 May 2022, 16:23:18

theluckycountry wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: Yes I meant what percent of his and Berkshire Hathaway's holdings which are close to 0.7 trillion. between the A and B stocks.


Buffett is an insider, he's OUT of the stock market by now. He's been using the taxfree loophole to sell his shares and place the money in private family foundations, which of course, are private :)

This was a year ago.

23 Jun 2021
Wednesday’s announced $4.1 billion marks the latest in a string of annual gifts to those groups aimed at achieving Buffett’s goal of giving away all of his Berkshire Hathaway shares. Buffett possessed 474,998 shares in 2006 and now claims a total of 238,634 shares, making Wednesday’s contributions a halfway point toward transferring them all to foundation ownership.


In 2006, Buffett announced his intent to give away the vast majority of his fortune in annual gifts to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation, the Sherwood Foundation, the Howard G. Buffett Foundation, and the NoVo Foundation. Buffett’s daughter, Susan Alice Buffett, leads the Sherwood Foundation, which formerly bore her own name. The NoVo Foundation operates under the leadership of his son Peter Buffett. Buffet’s son Howard leads the foundation bearing his name.

Of the five routine recipients of Buffett’s donations, only the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is not run, founded by, or named for a member of his family. Buffett had, however, been a trustee of that organization for years before announcing his resignation Wednesday.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2021/ ... undations/

HaHaHa, he hoodwinked everyone, the great oracle bails just before the big collapse. Who knows where that money is now, gold and bonds? Venezuelan farmland? One thing you can bet, it's not in IT stocks or even in Birkshire lol lol lol

When you give shares of stock to a charity or a foundation you give them whole (and avoid paying capital gains taxes on them) and do not sell them or otherwise cash them in so you can't buy gold or anything else with the value of those stocks. Buffet is a very seasoned citizen and is settling his affairs. It is also known he set up a trust fund for his wife with a direction to have 90% of it invested in a low cost S&P index fund. We know exactly where the money is. It is in the hands of those foundations. Also those foundations that are run by his children can and will pay those directors/children , nice fat salaries (Taxable) for overseeing the funds.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 14 May 2022, 16:31:19

Out of the stock market is he? Not by a long shot. Last year he still owned 79 Billion.
https://inspirationfeed.com/warren-buffett-net-worth/


According to reports, Buffett’s shares in Berkshire Hathaway earned him 20.8% every year between 1965 and 2016. As of the time of writing, he owns about 300,000 Class A shares, as well as another 150,000 Class B shares of the American stock and conglomerate holding company. That’s exclusive of the $100,000 annual salary that he draws from the company.

In addition to Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett is also associated with numerous other global giant corporations. He reportedly owns over 2 million shares of both Seritage Growth Properties and Wells Fargo, and about 900,000 shares of U.S Bancorp. His Wells Fargo stake alone translates to around $28 billion.

The following are other notable companies where Warren Buffett has invested in:

• Coca-Cola, where Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway owns shares worth $16 billion
• Kraft Heinz, where Buffet and Berkshire owns a 25% share in the food company, now estimated to be at least $29 billion
• IBM, where he commands a stake valued at about $14 million
• BYD Company, where he invested $230 million in exchange of a 10% stake in the battery maker company. Within a year, Buffett had earned returns worth more than 500% from this investment alone
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby careinke » Sat 14 May 2022, 22:46:24

theluckycountry wrote:Bitcoins Highs are irrelevant to any discussion on it's future price, that's just grabbing at straws. The fundamentals of Fear and Greed is all that counts with these assets. But to point out the obvious, that most people have not noticed, these 'coins' are simply digital technologies. They are like Windows XP, or at best the Ipod or the DVD player. If it's one thing we know about technologies they have a big boost phase and are then superseded, to be left in the waste-bin of history.

That is what we are seeing with the great crypto crash of 2022 I believe. People are bored with it and the interest has dried up. No new buyers = falling prices and frustrated baghodlers. It started over a year ago with dogecoin, the broader market was doing fine but people just lost interest in the meme.


Congratulations! If we added your prediction to the "Bitcoin is dead" claims we would be at the 377th prediction that Bitcoin is Dead. Of course you would not be added to the list because it is reserved for "Notable Bitcoin Skeptics" and I don't think you qualify. 8)

Here is the database if you want to check it out. It is pretty detailed and a fun read.https://www.bitcoinisdead.org/

The price of BTC in the first instance was 11 cents on Oct 15th 2010. The last claim is 9 May 2022.

So, I'm not holding my breath for BTC to die. As a matter of fact I'm accumulating just like the whales.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 15 May 2022, 01:16:26

vtsnowedin wrote:Out of the stock market is he? Not by a long shot. Last year he still owned 79 Billion.


I stand corrected.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 15 May 2022, 03:12:40

careinke wrote:The price of BTC in the first instance was 11 cents on Oct 15th 2010. The last claim is 9 May 2022.

So, I'm not holding my breath for BTC to die. As a matter of fact I'm accumulating just like the whales.

Peace


Yes there have been endless claims that bitcoin would collapse, no doubt there was endless claims that the dotcom bubble of the nineties (as we call it now) was going to collapse too. When such a vast body of intelectuals and insider experts warn of something, there is probably a good reason for it I would think.

More than most cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin was seen by many of its libertarian-leaning fans as a kind of doomsday insurance, a form of “digital gold” that would be a source of stability as the world grew more chaotic and unpredictable.

Well, chaos is here. In the United States, inflation is rising at the fastest pace in decades ...VIX — the so-called fear index ...has risen more than 80 percent this year. ... Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was met with brutal sanctions that have tanked the ruble and devastated the Russian economy, and many U.S. companies have pulled out of Russia, making it nearly impossible for its citizens to access their bank accounts...

In other words, this is a perfect storm of economic and geopolitical events that should, theoretically, be great for Bitcoin. But Bitcoin hasn’t boomed. In fact, even as Wall Street analysts contemplate the possibility of nuclear Armageddon, crypto prices have fallen steadily.



“The Bitcoin and crypto communities have been selling a false narrative all these years that Bitcoin is supposed to be a safe haven from the traditional financial markets,” said Jimmy Nguyen, the president of the Bitcoin Association...
Bitcoin is doomed, Mr. Nguyen argues, because it can be slow and expensive to process transactions, making it less useful for paying for things. “And so a lot of Bitcoin supporters have had to come up with this argument that it’s meant to be a reserve asset,” he said.


Kevin Werbach, a professor of legal studies and business ethics at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, floated a different theory. Bitcoin’s earliest and most vocal adopters, he said, tended to be libertarians who saw cryptocurrency as a kind of insurance policy against hyperinflation and government corruption...

“There’s a tremendous amount of rhetoric around Bitcoin in particular that suggests that it’s predominantly a means of escaping from the government-issued fiat currency system,” he said. “And yet most of the activity, according to basically every rigorous study that’s been done, is predominantly people speculating.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/tech ... roose.html

At the end of the day inke, it's just a speculation, there are no touted fundamentals that have ever lived up to their promise, it's not Digital Gold, it's just a digital gamble. Good luck with your gambling.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 15 May 2022, 06:48:41

vtsnowedin wrote:I notice Buffet bought shares in the bank not Bitcoin itself. Probably a reason for that.


If he wanted to buy a pizza chain like dominos and dominos accepted bitcoin it wouldn't make any difference to him, how many pizza are bought with bitcoin anyway? I looked into that bank in Brazil, it's big, and off its front page you can see all the services, savings accounts, loans, debit cards. But not a single mention of crypto. I think the media is just having a little fun with buffett. Nubank is just like any bank, except it doesn't have branches, which is the model for all banking going forward it looks.

Most banks are inherently "Digital Banks" now, putting that as their business catch phrase is like putting .com after a company name in 1999. It attracts interest, capital investment. It's just marketing and a statement that says there is no office you can walk into and complain if you have an issue. I'll stick with a bank that gives me cash on demand.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 15 May 2022, 08:43:37

Like most Americans I do most of my banking on line and thru direct deposit. But I still have a couple of accounts where their website is so well guarded they are unusable, at least for me, so I still write and mail out three of four checks each month. I'm OK with that and as long as I can go to an ATM and get cash I'll leave things as they are. If the bank wanted to go all digital and not receive or give out cash I would switch banks.
If the time comes when the government is driving us to go all digital that issue will decide my vote.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 15 May 2022, 10:24:33

vtsnowedin wrote:Like most Americans I do most of my banking on line and thru direct deposit. But I still have a couple of accounts where their website is so well guarded they are unusable, at least for me, so I still write and mail out three of four checks each month.


Interesting. I have the exact same combination. Two checks headed out this weekend, and don't expect to send out any more for a couple weeks. I am also diversified across state lines in terms of the physical locations.
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