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PeakOil is You

THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 20 Apr 2022, 14:55:02

Fire insurance bills will be based on the incident rate that actually happens. For ICE cars garaged it is quite low as once they are shut off and cool down few incidents have occurred over time.
The EV is having energy pumped into them while charging so is not in a static state and things can and do happen. I am optimistic the problem will get solved shortly but the insurance actuaries will want a data set to set the rates by.
you might think it is a Jim dandy great idea to blast cubic $$ of discretionary income out the door for something so simple as fuel to get around,

For most people fuel needed to get to and from work is not discretionary income or expense. it is just a necessity to get the balance of the income needed. Just like a super tanker burning some oil to get the rest of the load to market.
Well, when the stupid things don't break because their moving parts are few and far between, why should they be junked? I have like 3 main moving parts on my EV, how many are in the engine alone of that Subaru you recently acquired? I'll bet its more than 3.

Every thing wears out eventually and for EVs it might be the battery or the body panels or frame or maybe just the seats and other interior appointments or perhaps they will make the chips obsolete like they do with your cell phone. That the electric drive motors are still good will make no difference if the rest of the vehicle is undriveable. If they last more miles then an ICE car that is good but the question is what is the total cost per mile lifetime reguardless of how long the lifetime is.
Not that many years ago I had a Chevy pick up that cost me 23 cents per mile all costs included over 256,000 miles. Best I ever got.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 20 Apr 2022, 16:12:05

vtsnowedin wrote:Fire insurance bills will be based on the incident rate that actually happens. For ICE cars garaged it is quite low as once they are shut off and cool down few incidents have occurred over time.
The EV is having energy pumped into them while charging so is not in a static state and things can and do happen. I am optimistic the problem will get solved shortly but the insurance actuaries will want a data set to set the rates by.


I've got mine charging in the garage right now, just as I have done it for nearly 8 years now. No insurance at my major brand name insurance company has been raised yet. Now, a sports car and a kid turning 16 and getting a license? Hoo Boy! Tells you where the risk is I suppose.

vtsnowedin wrote:
you might think it is a Jim dandy great idea to blast cubic $$ of discretionary income out the door for something so simple as fuel to get around,

For most people fuel needed to get to and from work is not discretionary income or expense. it is just a necessity to get the balance of the income needed. Just like a super tanker burning some oil to get the rest of the load to market.


Okay...the expense of fuel isn't discretionary.....a purchase decision requiring the use of expensive fuels is. Which means, said consumers after making that decision shouldn't get an inch of newsprint or TV time whining about how much their fuel costs are post purchase. They signed up for that cost upfront....now they get to enjoy the benefit of that choice...and the consequences.

vtsnowedin wrote:
Well, when the stupid things don't break because their moving parts are few and far between, why should they be junked? I have like 3 main moving parts on my EV, how many are in the engine alone of that Subaru you recently acquired? I'll bet its more than 3.

Every thing wears out eventually and for EVs it might be the battery or the body panels or frame or maybe just the seats and other interior appointments or perhaps they will make the chips obsolete like they do with your cell phone.


Yup. All things wear out.

vtsnowedin wrote:That the electric drive motors are still good will make no difference if the rest of the vehicle is undriveable. If they last more miles then an ICE car that is good but the question is what is the total cost per mile lifetime reguardless of how long the lifetime is.
Not that many years ago I had a Chevy pick up that cost me 23 cents per mile all costs included over 256,000 miles. Best I ever got.


I have owned perhaps 42 automobiles in my time, having driven some 1.36 million miles with them (bike count is 29 and another couple hundred K). Not once did I make a purchase on a hoped for cost per mile. I made the decision like most non-fleet operators do I imagine, what is the CapX involved, what is the OpX, will it get me chics, or tow my motorcycles to cool racetracks on the other side of the country, will it haul the family around in bad weather, and does it come from a manufacturer that has a reputation for quality. I keep a spreadsheet with basic information, what I paid for it, what I sold it for, fuel mileage, gasoline price average across the time span I owned it, etc etc. No insurance costs though. I've got 3 lower than 23 cents. All Honda's interestingly, and all with some things in common. They weren't expensive to buy, if sold I got a fair price back out of them, and they were just cheap to run. I've got one that ties 23 cents, and it is still running and my main cross continent traveler. That 23 cents is calculated with a salvage value of $0, and as long as I don't total it, or I just sell it because it is old and get a few bucks, it is almost guaranteed to be under 23 cents, so that would make only my 4th. The worst is greater than $1.80/mile, a sports car I bought for the wife, she then used it once a week to make a 5 mile burger run in the stupid thing, and then I took a bath when I traded it. So low miles, huge depreciation, a total waste. But hey...someone has to wear the skirt in the family, and she shall not be denied.

If the probability of a moving part disabling your cage is equal across all parts, fewer moving parts calculates to a lower probability of a disabling failure. The math is as simple as gets. And has nothing to do with CPM.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 20 Apr 2022, 18:09:21

Okay...the expense of fuel isn't discretionary.....a purchase decision requiring the use of expensive fuels is. Which means, said consumers after making that decision shouldn't get an inch of newsprint or TV time whining about how much their fuel costs are post purchase. They signed up for that cost upfront....now they get to enjoy the benefit of that choice...and the consequences.

If there is an intelligible thought there I fail to see it.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 20 Apr 2022, 18:43:01

vtsnowedin wrote:
Okay...the expense of fuel isn't discretionary.....a purchase decision requiring the use of expensive fuels is. Which means, said consumers after making that decision shouldn't get an inch of newsprint or TV time whining about how much their fuel costs are post purchase. They signed up for that cost upfront....now they get to enjoy the benefit of that choice...and the consequences.

If there is an intelligible thought there I fail to see it.


Well then pictures for those with literacy difficulties!

Image
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 20 Apr 2022, 21:20:33

AdamB wrote:I have owned perhaps 42 automobiles in my time,

crazy
having driven some 1.36 million miles with them

crazy

Not once did I make a purchase on a hoped for cost per mile.

Of course not. If one is as crazy as you about cars one makes emotional purchase decisions, not cost per mile decisions.
I owned maybe 4 cars in 30 years. And for each purchase I did a lot of CPM research. 1.36 Mmiles driven? That's like 3 years spent in a car. Crazy.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 21 Apr 2022, 00:26:02

mousepad wrote:
Not once did I make a purchase on a hoped for cost per mile.

Of course not. If one is as crazy as you about cars one makes emotional purchase decisions, not cost per mile decisions.


An interesting conclusion to draw from my cage purchasing habits, spanning chunks of 2 centuries and 6 different decades now. Would it make a difference if I offered that I am slowing down in my old age? :)

And, if I think about it, I am forced to admit you are probably right. There has always been an emotional thing in this buying, selling, trading, something visceral that must trigger endorphins or something. But cages are just a means to an end, I save my happy time for 2 wheels, not 4. 4 wheels are great for towing 2 wheelers places, or carrying them in the bed. I can attest that 200 miles in a day on a racetrack on 2 wheels is orders of magnitude more emotionally invigorating than driving 4000 miles to and from in 4.

mousepad wrote:I owned maybe 4 cars in 30 years. And for each purchase I did a lot of CPM research. 1.36 Mmiles driven? That's like 3 years spent in a car. Crazy.


I once worked a job in the GOM, 50 miles offshore. I hit the docks in Morgan City, hopped in the Toyota, and a couple days later was drilling south of the Great Slave Lake in the NWT. I've done Denver to Prudhoe Bay in 4 days with a stop in Hyder and some sightseeing along the way. I caged Banff to Anchorage once over a weekend, leaving Banff after a conference Friday afternoon where I was keynoting, arriving in Anchorage in time for dinner Sunday night. I love the Alcan.

As I said, I am older now, and much calmer about my affair with motorized transport. I sleep in hotels rather than the back seats of cars, limit my driving to mostly daylight hours, stop at oil and gas museums along the way for sightseeing, national parks, the red woods or old volcanos or fossil beds or whatever happens to be along the way. Yes...much calmer.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 22 Apr 2022, 17:02:54

vtsnowedin wrote:
Well, when the stupid things don't break because their moving parts are few and far between, why should they be junked? I have like 3 main moving parts on my EV, how many are in the engine alone of that Subaru you recently acquired? I'll bet its more than 3.

Every thing wears out eventually and for EVs it might be the battery or the body panels or frame


Modern ICE cars typically run trouble free for 10 years, then minor issues begin to arise. At 10 years an EV is up for a complete new battery pack, tens of thousands of dollars. I doubt many would bother, they will just send them to the scrapyard. Battery life and replacement cost issues are tactfully ignored by EV fanboys.

What will a LiPO pack be worth in 8~10 years? A hell of a lot more than now given the rising price of Lithium and the the available reserves. Let them eat their cake now, it won't last.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 22 Apr 2022, 17:43:26

theluckycountry wrote: At 10 years an EV is up for a complete new battery pack, tens of thousands of dollars.


I'm at about 8 on one, and 7 on the other. Want to make a bet on either from your vast knowledge of never having owned an EV? We've already demonstrated you know nothing about dismantling nuke plants, riding motorcycles on quality roads and can't explain why Australians drive American cars, perhaps you would like to prove your ignorance in yet another arena?
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Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
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