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A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt 3

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Pops » Fri 18 Mar 2022, 19:09:17

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby kublikhan » Fri 18 Mar 2022, 20:13:00

Nice find Pops. For those who don't want to read the whole article, here's a few highlights:

In the decades to come, Straubel is confident that recycled materials will be used for “close to 100%” of the world’s battery production. Recycling is already profitable, he said, and eventually companies that don’t integrate recycling with refining and production won’t be able to compete on cost.

Redwood moving into cathode production is a major development for the EV industry, according to BNEF analyst James Frith. Not only is the cathode the biggest driver of costs, but it’s the most polluting part of battery production. Consolidating the supply chain in the U.S. — and the technological improvements that will come with it — will dramatically reduce emissions from battery production. “It would be one of the biggest cathode facilities in the world,” Frith said. “If you’re getting rid of that long supply chain, and you’re not having to do as much virgin refining, you’re cutting a huge chunk out of those emissions.”

While companies wait for the first big wave of electric vehicles to reach retirement, consumer electronics provide a surprisingly effective substitute. For example, batteries from consumer electronics contain considerably higher levels of cobalt, one of the most expensive and controversial inputs for batteries. Straubel says there's so much cobalt in old electronics, Redwood will always produce more from recycling than it needs for manufacturing.

Urban Mining
When anyone drops off an old mobile phone or laptop at a Best Buy recycling center, it goes to Redwood. So does any scrap when Panasonic makes battery cells for Tesla at the Nevada Gigafactory. Since Straubel left Tesla, Redwood has taken over more than half of the U.S. market for lithium-ion battery recycling.

After collection, Redwood disassembles, shreds, burns, and mixes materials in a slurry to separate out the valuable nickel, lithium, cobalt and copper. More than 95% of the core battery materials are recycled, according to Redwood. The resulting powders then wind their way back through the supply chain.
Tesla co-founder has a plan to become king of EV battery materials in the U.S.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 20 Mar 2022, 11:13:37

Re: recyclable batteries.

Can’t recall if I posted this before or not. Fun video.

https://youtu.be/afwO_MZjRjA
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 08 Apr 2022, 17:40:34

There is really nothing to add to the limits to growth, it was thrashed out perfectly in the 1970's and that work is right on track. Anyone still looking for a solution to the collapse of industrial civilization needs to go start a veggie garden in their back yard, or otherwise find something useful to do with their spare time.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 08 Apr 2022, 18:45:49

Survival strategies have been discussed but not tested in real world collapse. :-D
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 12 May 2022, 12:34:25

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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 12 May 2022, 13:50:38

Newfie wrote:Proposed NC wind farms.

https://loosecannon.substack.com/p/caro ... dium=email

I am not sure if I understand all the information on that chart. My chart reading experience is limited to a couple between Boston and Cape Cod.
Would it not be advisable to put windmills on the shallowest shoals so they would mark for navigation the spots for ships and pleasure boats to avoid? Of course for fishermen shallow water and structure often mean fish, so they will want to come up close using their depth and fish finders when the tides and fish runs align.
I can't see it as all that big a problem as there is a whole deep ocean a mile or two to the east so all we are talking about is some time and fuel.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Doly » Thu 12 May 2022, 14:46:17

Survival strategies have been discussed but not tested in real world collapse.


Not sure about that. There are a lot of people in the Middle East (and now in Ukraine) that have tested a bunch of survival strategies in some pretty serious collapse situations.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 12 May 2022, 19:13:11

We are kinda living our survival strategy. Obviously not full but still pretty close.

We are having fun. :-D
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 12 May 2022, 20:45:50

Doly wrote:
Survival strategies have been discussed but not tested in real world collapse.


Not sure about that. There are a lot of people in the Middle East (and now in Ukraine) that have tested a bunch of survival strategies in some pretty serious collapse situations.

Yes a good example of just how far things can go to bat sh!$ in a moment. the resilience of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Do you think you could do as well under similar distress?
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 12 May 2022, 23:10:01

vtsnowedin wrote: Do you think you could do as well under similar distress?


Doly has made it through 6 actual and claimed peak oils this century, like the rest of us! I'd say we are all doing pretty good based on the claimed horrors of the event!
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 15 May 2022, 06:59:44

Doly wrote:
Survival strategies have been discussed but not tested in real world collapse.


Not sure about that. There are a lot of people in the Middle East (and now in Ukraine) that have tested a bunch of survival strategies in some pretty serious collapse situations.


I guess there are levels of survival. To some people, not being able to buy the new car they want is an exercise in survivalism :)
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby Doly » Sun 15 May 2022, 09:32:45

Doly has made it through 6 actual and claimed peak oils this century, like the rest of us!


It's only the final global peak oil that counts.

That said, certainly some people have had experience with local or temporary oil shortages that should count as useful experience.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 15 May 2022, 10:20:18

Doly wrote:
Doly has made it through 6 actual and claimed peak oils this century, like the rest of us!


It's only the final global peak oil that counts.


Indeed. Which begs the question, why isn't that one claimed, rather than all the others? :-D

Doly wrote:That said, certainly some people have had experience with local or temporary oil shortages that should count as useful experience.


Those of us who made it through the gasoline rationing in the US in the 1970's have such experience.
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