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Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby suxs » Sat 21 Aug 2021, 22:03:46

If you don't know that burning fossil fuels produce CO2, do you know anything re climate change?


No, you fail entirely in reading comprehension. Good grief. Natural gas produces greenhouse gasses - CO2, CH4, N2O - only when combusted!! I responded to the statement that NG is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. Compared to what! This comment makes no fucking sense and is the very definition of a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

Wow.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby mousepad » Sun 22 Aug 2021, 11:30:14

suxs wrote:
If you don't know that burning fossil fuels produce CO2, do you know anything re climate change?


No, you fail entirely in reading comprehension. Good grief. Natural gas produces greenhouse gasses - CO2, CH4, N2O - only when combusted!! I responded to the statement that NG is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. Compared to what! This comment makes no fucking sense and is the very definition of a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

Wow.



Methane (CH4) is a hydrocarbon that is a primary component of natural gas.
Methane is more than 25 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere


https://www.epa.gov/gmi/importance-methane
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 22 Aug 2021, 19:38:42

Yes that unburnt gas is becoming a real issue now, and the natural decomposition of forests. Tipping points
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby diemos » Tue 24 Aug 2021, 13:16:37

suxs wrote:
If you don't know that burning fossil fuels produce CO2, do you know anything re climate change?


No, you fail entirely in reading comprehension. Good grief. Natural gas produces greenhouse gasses - CO2, CH4, N2O - only when combusted!! I responded to the statement that NG is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. Compared to what! This comment makes no fucking sense and is the very definition of a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

Wow.


LOL. CH4 is natural gas. CH4 is more potent than CO2 as a green house gas but it converts in the atmosphere to CO2 and H20 on a relatively short timescale. It's atmospheric half-life is about a decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby theluckycountry » Tue 24 Aug 2021, 18:25:28

diemos wrote:LOL. CH4 is natural gas. CH4 is more potent than CO2 as a green house gas but it converts in the atmosphere to CO2 and H20 on a relatively short timescale. It's atmospheric half-life is about a decade.


Yes, and in that decade, Methane (CH4), is at least 30 times stronger than carbon dioxide as an absorber of infrared radiation. 30 Times. So if the same amount of methane is released from the arctic in the decades to come as the US produces CO2 at present rates that is like having 30 United states pumping greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.

What are you actually trying to say in your comments diemos, that we shouldn't be concerned about methane release?
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby diemos » Tue 24 Aug 2021, 20:38:47

theluckycountry wrote:What are you actually trying to say in your comments diemos, that we shouldn't be concerned about methane release?


30 times more effective at blocking infrared and 200 times less density of it in the atmosphere at present. Not my biggest concern at the moment.

Of course, I'm not concerned about global warming at all. Energy is wealth. So anything that can be dug up and burned will be dug up and burned. Our descendants, or even more accurately your descendants as I don't have any, will just have to adapt to the new world.

I suggest keeping a years food supply in the cellar and not buying any coastal real estate.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby suxs » Thu 26 Aug 2021, 03:25:34

LOL. CH4 is natural gas.


Lol, diemos the genius, CH4 is also the chemical symbol for methane. Since natural gas is methane their shared symbol is CH4.

Nice try at a cheap gotcha.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 26 Aug 2021, 13:13:56

suxs wrote:Nice try at a cheap gotcha.


Are you a doorknob? You seem just as dumb.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 26 Aug 2021, 15:59:08

diemos wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:What are you actually trying to say in your comments diemos, that we shouldn't be concerned about methane release?


30 times more effective at blocking infrared and 200 times less density of it in the atmosphere at present. Not my biggest concern at the moment.

Of course, I'm not concerned about global warming at all. Energy is wealth. So anything that can be dug up and burned will be dug up and burned. Our descendants, or even more accurately your descendants as I don't have any, will just have to adapt to the new world.

I suggest keeping a years food supply in the cellar and not buying any coastal real estate.


Well fair enough, and I really don't have anything to add except I'd make it 2 ~5 years of red kidney beans, since they are a tasty protein source that will keep you alive that long, and to only buy real estate well away from cities, specifically in areas where farming and livestock are. I see another benefit to rural also. Access to fuels, the farmers will be the second last to get cut off from them.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby suxs » Sat 28 Aug 2021, 02:18:10

Are you a doorknob? You seem just as dumb.


mousie, save the playground taunts for your peers. Such a tough guy hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is behavior typical of a coward.

Reminds me of mousie's critique of an electrical engineer about whom he knows nothing. In typical fashion and absent the facts, mousie knows with cocksure arrogance the problem centers around the poster's bad attitude and other character deficiencies. Mousie's commentary is a perfect representation of the Dunning Krueger effect. Instead of lecturing others, mousie should first follow its own advice and take a long look in the mirror. He will discover that his frequent insults and inappropriate criticisms project perfectly like an inner mirror reflecting the true feelings harbored about self --- and it's not a pretty picture.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 25 Sep 2021, 14:50:35

The managed collapse via the corona virus measures is well underway now, especially here in Australia. The two most populous states have been in lockdowns for 200 days this year, that on top of last years shutdowns. Just this week the second most populous city had all its construction projects closed for two weeks because of some minor protests by workers. "They need to obey health regulations the premier cited but they were in fact. Shut them down I say, permanently! What do we need new office towers for anyway? The ones there now are half empty. It wouldn't be the first time a city stopped growing and went into decay.

Collapse was always coming, but rather than being the disorderly process we had assumed, it is proceeding quite equitably, and with the full consent of the majority. The elephant in the room of course is the retirement accounts of these millions of hard workers. These need to be adjusted downward too, just as their working hours have been curtailed. There is only so much oil, copper, lumber and steel left, and these retirement accounts are just a future demand on all of that, be it a holiday on an island, or a new car, or a diet of high end meats, cheese and wine for their autumn years.

The planet simply cannot afford to repay these promises, it's struggling to keep up now with demand, or at least it was at the beginning of 2020. Eight Billion people demanding a western lifestyle. Westerners demanding to own 2 or 3 homes, one to live in and a couple more for kicks. Garages overflowing with fast cars motorcycles and boats. Where does it all end? It ends right here, right now.

Image
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 25 Sep 2021, 17:01:25

Newfie wrote:And yet it is a very optimistic answer. The situation is truly grim.


Depends on your situation. Grimness being a function of country of birth, affluence, intelligence and education, opportunity, etc etc.

As we continue to pollute the biosphere, create governments more interested in themselves than the citizens, there will certainly continue to be winners and losers.

Just as there always has been. So..grimness as perspective, and perfectly normal, I can accept.

The only constant in the doom-o-sphere apparent to me is that folks who thought the world was going to end back then, regardless of reason, believe it today, regardless of reason. Internal intellectual consistency is irrelevant. It isn't as though posters here didn't sniff it out more than a decade ago.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 25 Sep 2021, 17:08:53

suxs wrote:
LOL. CH4 is natural gas.


Lol, diemos the genius, CH4 is also the chemical symbol for methane. Since natural gas is methane their shared symbol is CH4.

Nice try at a cheap gotcha.


Natural gas isn't just CH4. It usually contains longer chain hydrocarbons as well, ethane, propane, butane, etc etc. We do gas composition tests to determine heating value, because heating value of straight CH4 is low, compared to most natural gas.

Biogenic stuff from coals and maybe the Antrim in Michigan being exceptions. There are fields in Indonesia that contain large amounts of CO2 mixed with natural gas that can be quite problematic as well.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 25 Sep 2021, 17:48:18

suxs wrote:
If you don't know that burning fossil fuels produce CO2, do you know anything re climate change?


No, you fail entirely in reading comprehension. Good grief. Natural gas produces greenhouse gasses - CO2, CH4, N2O - only when combusted!! I responded to the statement that NG is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. Compared to what! This comment makes no fucking sense and is the very definition of a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

Wow.

As I've said before, and you failed to respond to like an adult, if that were true, then WHY the concern for NG pipe leaks, and their effect on global warming?

Just like people claiming the world is flat, if you can't answer questions with meaningful answers with credible sources, bzzzzt, you lose in the world of adult / practical thinking.

https://theconversation.com/the-us-natu ... ters-98918

In the real world, methane is a GHG, whether posted or not.

But go ahead, spew more disinformation, as though that makes you credible, like flat earthers, or Covid-19 conspiracy theorists. :idea:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby suxs » Sun 26 Sep 2021, 23:02:44

In the real world, methane is a GHG


No shit, Sherlock. QUOTE ME where I stated Methane is not a GHG. The "adult" must enjoy pulling crap straight out of his arse or it suffers from reading comprehension issues. Unbelievable and pathetic.

As I've said before, and you failed to respond to like an adult


Yet, "the adult" claims I'm a member of the flat earth society, lol. Just one more arrogant, self-absorbed, hypocritical, pseudo-intellectual, fabricator. Yawn.
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Re: Collapse probably won't happen Pt. 2

Unread postby FamousDrScanlon » Mon 27 Sep 2021, 01:41:24

Collapse probably won't happen if you're expecting a Hollywood style event. Some say collapse is a process or death by a million cuts. It's fun to compare, but the USSR is all we have for big fossil fueled industrial civilization. For me it's inevitable. Climate change & biodiversity will do it all by themselves, blindfolded & with one hand tied up even if the humans are perfect from this day forward, but there are other possibilities that could slow or speed things up.

Renegade Inc | The Collapse of Complex Societies
Sep 8, 2021


Hubris in The West today means we think we are so advanced that we can escape the collapse of complex societies. Our recent history has cemented an air of invincibility, but if you look closely, all the signs are present that the empire is far more vulnerable than we think. So is our societal decline preordained, or will we be the first civilisation to cheat the inevitable?

Ross Ashcroft is joined by the anthropologist and historian Dr. Joseph Tainter to discuss what we can learn from our past about how and why complex societies collapse.


https://youtu.be/w9LL5zlZrVc

.................................

I recommend this. I prefer real paper books, but we don't always get exactly what we want & there's no charge, so it's all good. It's pdf, so anyone should be able to open & read it. Enjoy.

Immoderate Greatness Why Civilizations Fail - William Ophuls


Immoderate Greatness» explains how a civilization’s very magnitude conspires against it to cause downfall. Civilizations are hard-wired for self-destruction. They travel an arc from initial success to terminal decay and ultimate collapse due to intrinsic, inescapable biophysical limits combined with an inexorable trend toward moral decay and practical failure. Because our own civilization is global, its collapse will also be global, as well as uniquely devastating owing to the immensity of its population, complexity, and consumption. To avoid the common fate of all past civilizations will require a radical change in our ethos—to wit, the deliberate renunciation of greatness—lest we precipitate a dark age in which the arts and adornments of civilization are partially or completely lost.


https://b-ok.cc/book/2769718/23a512
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