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Bitcoin & crypto?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 12 May 2021, 23:37:36

Those posters who think that the environmental concern over Bitcoin is overblown aren't going to like todays news............Elon Musk and Tesla just announced they will no longer accept Bitcoin as currency because mining Bitcoin is very energy intensive and causes global warming

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-suspends-bitcoin-payments-over-concerns-about-environmental-impact

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The price of Bitcoin quickly jacked down another 6% after Musk's announcement.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 13 May 2021, 13:24:01

Plantagenet wrote:Those posters who think that the environmental concern over Bitcoin is overblown aren't going to like todays news............Elon Musk and Tesla just announced they will no longer accept Bitcoin as currency because mining Bitcoin is very energy intensive and causes global warming

Based on a quick perusal of Youtube last night after this happened, that's putting it mildly.

I saw hyperventilating, arm waving, cries of "FUD", Musk hate, Tesla hate, etc. in the wake of that. By the usual suspects pumping BTC for their own pocketbooks and (in my opinion) lacking ANY credibility at all. (A lot of those guys make the worst lying scumbag used car salesmen I walked away from look like angels in comparison).

Funny how when Musk does something that helps BTC he's a hero, but say a word against it, he's a goat, the Antichrist, and generally the worst of everything, all rolled into one. :roll:

I think it's the sheer level of the shrillness, re the pumping of cryptos that gives me the most pause. It's like all signs of rationality moved away to some distant planet. :idea:

...

And what the hell, if the world IS going to replace fiat with crypto, why the hell NOT use something that is perhaps 100X or so as efficient as BTC re energy usage, or even 1000X if that's possible? While fixing issues like slow transaction time, capacity issues, etc, as well.

The market seems to be voting on Etherium as being the likely front runner at this point, re how it's been performing against BTC. Of course, that could change next month or next year as the soap opera inevitably unfolds.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby dissident » Wed 19 May 2021, 10:28:00

https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/crypto ... ccelerates

The use of the term "wealth" in the context of crypto coins is inane. It is a loss of speculative price in terms of real money (my gosh fiat is more real). This is one of the most vapid "wealth" bubbles in history. At least Dutch tulips were physically tangible. The only thing that these "miners" contribute is global warming through pointless electrical energy consumption to "mine" this virtual wealth.

Musk is right to stop using this crap. Even the maligned fiat money in circulation is vastly more stable than crypto. The cash in your wallet is unlikely to lose any substantial amount of its nominal value overnight. Crypto can poof out of existence.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 19 May 2021, 11:07:05

dissident wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/crypto-markets-lose-over-800-billion-week-bitcoin-bloodbath-accelerates

The use of the term "wealth" in the context of crypto coins is inane. It is a loss of speculative price in terms of real money (my gosh fiat is more real).

Well, to be fair, that's the crux of the whole debate. Does crypto end up being a new asset class over time (with legs, re value), or not?

When they are weak or crashing, the bear arguments get more popular. When they are strong, the bulls get the upper hand. Just like for the stock markets, bond markets, PM's, etc. It's the nature of markets.

BTW, I DON'T KNOW what happens with crypto over time, and don't PRETEND to. I find myself, as a tech. aware boomer, smack in the middle of the bull and bear arguments, able (I think) to see the merits of both sides. I remain extremely cautious.

I DO continue to say that with all its issues, I think it's VERY high risk to assume that BTC "wins" the crypto race by being first to market and having the biggest network traffic (for now). The Model T was a FINE car in it's day, but it did NOT win the car technology race over time -- better models did as the technology of cars improved.

Today's a good day to be glad I resolved to ONLY buy in any meaningful amount AFTER a big crash, once they're unpopular again, as (IMO), at least at that point, for someone patient, the risk/reward is FAR better. For perspective, I consider this potentially NOT even close to the bottom. I want to see relative gloom for a few months, with prices back down in or near the $10-$12K normal-ish 2020 area before I'd want to start buying in ANY meaningful size. And if it never gets there and I just miss it -- I can certainly live with that. (Chasing FOMO dreams is NOT a way to get rich over time with any reasonable degree of safety, IMO).

But clearly, the typical pumpers on Youtube et. al. are being exposed as dead wrong yet again. The idea that BTC, Ether, etc. are now popular enough to be considered "stores of value" like, say, physical gold has clearly shown to be wrong -- IF you want ANY sense of stability to your "stores of value" re assets, at ALL. (Yeah, the stock market and PM's can get crazy at times, but THIS kind of thing, which still happens relatively often in the crypto space makes them look TAME during their wildest weeks).

....

One other thing to consider for those who want to be active crypto traders vs. long tern holders, multiple popular crypto exchanges went DOWN today during the peak of the volatility (thus far), probably largely due to huge volumes. (Just like internet stock brokers used to frequently do. Likely growing pains, but NOT a good look or message for such exchanges unless and until they get that stuff WELL sorted out. If they crash, the idea that you can ALWAYS trade crypto 168 hours a week is just plain false).

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 50149.html

Coinbase, Binance and other major crypto exchanges appear to be down amid a market-wide price crash.

Bitcoin has fallen by more than $10,000 in the last few hours, with customers reporting difficulties in accessing their accounts.

There were also issues for online banking apps that offer cryptocurrency trading, such as Revolut.

Ethereum (ether), Cardano (ada), dogecoin and bitcoin cash also saw major losses on Wednesday, with comparisons being drawn to the last major market crash experienced in 2017/18.


Hundreds of reports indicating problems at Binance and Coinbase were registered by website health checker DownDetector, as well as with the exchanges Gemini and KuCoin.

Some users took to social media to express their frustrations at not being able to either cash out their holdings or “buy the dip”.


(I could see the story at the link above by allowing ads for that site/page).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 19 May 2021, 11:39:50

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Bitcoin has fallen by more than $10,000 in the last few hours, with customers reporting difficulties in accessing their accounts.
There were also issues for online banking apps that offer cryptocurrency trading, such as Revolut.
Ethereum (ether), Cardano (ada), dogecoin and bitcoin cash also saw major losses on Wednesday, with comparisons being drawn to the last major market crash experienced in 2017/18.
Hundreds of reports indicating problems at Binance and Coinbase were registered by website health checker DownDetector, as well as with the exchanges Gemini and KuCoin.
Some users took to social media to express their frustrations at not being able to either cash out their holdings or “buy the dip”.


It would take a lot of guts to buy the dip right now while the crypto-currencies are still wildly falling.

In stocks there is a saying......"don't try to catch a falling knife."

For those with the courage to trade in Bitcoin, etc..... it might be wise here to watch as Bitcoin falls to a new, lower base, and only buy more when you are pretty darn sure its done falling.

Because a collapse like this could go on for quite a bit longer.

In fact, this could be the start of bubble popping for a whole lot of speculative assets.......housing is also clearly in a bubble and heaven help the US economy if the housing bubble pops next....

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Don't try to catch a falling knife.....or a falling Bitcoin

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 19 May 2021, 14:50:55

OK.....after I said not to buy Bitcoin for a while until it clearly hits bottom....it just bounced 10K off the lows for today.

Wow...thats a H U G E move...up 25% from today's lows in just a couple of hours.

That is so much volatility it would drive any normal person crazy.

But clearly some people have the bottom to be able to tolerate those kinds of movements in their investments.

But I don't. I admit it.....just watching Bitcoin from the sidelines gave me whiplash today.

WOW! Very impressive price movements.....and on basically no news except for another tweet from Elon Musk.

I guess if you're a BITCOIN Investor you have to watch your twitter feed to see what Elon Musk just said.

No thanks.

Heck.....that kind of erratic, inexplicable price volatility is why I don't buy Bitcoin.

But some people ARE getting rich on it. Just be very very careful when you invest.

Remember....buy low....selll HIGH.

Good luck to all! Good luck to the Bitcoin owners!

Have a great day!

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Wow! Bitcoin is rocketing back up again!! Its up UP UPUP now.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 19 May 2021, 15:03:23

Plantagenet wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:Bitcoin has fallen by more than $10,000 in the last few hours, with customers reporting difficulties in accessing their accounts.
There were also issues for online banking apps that offer cryptocurrency trading, such as Revolut.
Ethereum (ether), Cardano (ada), dogecoin and bitcoin cash also saw major losses on Wednesday, with comparisons being drawn to the last major market crash experienced in 2017/18.
Hundreds of reports indicating problems at Binance and Coinbase were registered by website health checker DownDetector, as well as with the exchanges Gemini and KuCoin.
Some users took to social media to express their frustrations at not being able to either cash out their holdings or “buy the dip”.


It would take a lot of guts to buy the dip right now while the crypto-currencies are still wildly falling.

In stocks there is a saying......"don't try to catch a falling knife."

In case you thought that I was buying crypto today, I made it very clear that I wasn't, and wasn't interested in getting into it in a meaningful way until it is much lower and much more stable -- i.e. much of the short term enthusiasm having been bashed out of it from pain.

I haven't survived for 40 years trading stocks and options by chasing after falling knives. If anything, I'm too cautious and miss opportunities. For example, I decided NOT to buy stocks in quantity at the bottom in 2020, looking for a 50 percent drop instead of a roughly 33% drop -- figuring that with Covid-19 we finally had a REAL chance for an actual depression in the short term, and thus more hammering for stocks. (And this partly because the market had already been so high after a long bull market, so it's about relative valuation vs. long term risk).

I was right re the short term depression, and dead wrong on the stocks. So it goes. Aside from being willing to EASE in starting earlier, I wouldn't do it differently next time.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 19 May 2021, 18:11:01

Outcast_Searcher wrote: I'm too cautious and miss opportunities. For example, I decided NOT to buy stocks in quantity at the bottom in 2020, looking for a 50 percent drop instead of a roughly 33% drop --


I sold everything in February 2020and bought back in March-April-May after the 33% collapse. Its worked out great.....especially since I mainly bought cloud and tech stocks that have really benefitted from the lockdown.

Of course the tech sector has been getting hammered for the last month or two, but I'm up so much that it isn't too worrisome unless we get another big collapse.

As crazy as 2020 was, at least things happened for a reason.

1. China goes into lockdown and the virus starts to spread beyond China to Italy and the US? Its time to sell.

2. US stocks fall 33% in a few weeks? Time to buy.

In contrast I can't decide what's going to happen in 2021.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies seem like a bubble to me, and so do the inflated housing prices.

Inflation is coming.

But when Joe Biden is asked about inflation, his face goes blank and he stares blankly into space and then refuses to answer.

It doesn't inspire confidence.

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I wish Biden would talk about inflation and the economy instead of his nonsense about Cornflake Jackson

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 20 Jun 2021, 22:59:52

On one hand:
"Miami offers its clean nuclear power to bitcoin miners as it aims to become crypto capital of the world"
https://www.rt.com/business/526961-miam ... in-mining/

And on the other:
"China to shut down over 90% of its Bitcoin mining capacity after local bans"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1226598.shtml

The existence of cryptocurrencies is one of those things that makes me think that humanity is hopeless. Please don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing people who invest in cryptocurrencies to make a profit, but the existence of cryptocurrencies itself, which is a complete waste of resources, IMO.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 21 Jun 2021, 00:21:23

JuanP wrote:The existence of cryptocurrencies is one of those things that makes me think that humanity is hopeless. Please don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing people who invest in cryptocurrencies to make a profit, but the existence of cryptocurrencies itself, which is a complete waste of resources, IMO.

How can we know it's a "complete waste of resources" until we know whether crypto-currencies end up functioning, over time, successfully as currencies which replace fiat?

I'm NOT saying they will -- only asking a question which I think is valid.

Clearly, money has historically been tied to technology. Money needed to have perceived value, and thus be able to be traded. So, to me, this implies some technology needed to be mastered well enough to deal with the underlying commodity(s) and make something well enough and consistent enough to be considered as valid.

So for coins, for example, the underlying metals had to be able to be found, extracted, processed, and made into acceptable, recognizable coins, perceived as units of value.

So perhaps we've reached that stage with software now?

I keep seeing the phrase in recent months that "software is going to eat the world", meaning that great advances in software via AI, automation, etc. is going to take over for a LOT of what runs the current economy, rather rapidly -- like in a decade or so. If true (and I'll believe it when I see such grand sweeping change rapidly taking over many industries), that would imply software has indeed hit some kind of new level where it has become MUCH more capable and valuable. And fintech like cryptocurrencies would just be one example of that, if crypto "eats" the function of fiat.

Certainly software already consumes tremendous amounts of energy globally and does all kinds of things, like GPS, running the banking system and handling most finances, running all sorts of industrial processes, etc. And that includes LOTS and LOTS of entertainment, including music, video, and gaming.

Is all of that (or any of that) a "waste of resources"? Clearly most of it has economic value, or people wouldn't devote the resources to keep the software running.

I think that just because even the vast majority of people say cryptocurrencies or any other software application is "a complete waste of resources" doesn't make it so. (Even if it's to play really, REALLY bad music, for example).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 22 Jun 2021, 20:42:49

Outcast_Searcher wrote:How can we know it's a "complete waste of resources" until we know whether crypto-currencies end up functioning, over time, successfully as currencies which replace fiat?


Crypto-currency itself is a "fiat" currency. It has no inherent value. What do you think the value of a dogecoin is, really?

Yes, we've been in a huge cryptocurrency "bubble" that bubble seems to be popping right now. Of course We've seen this kind of thing before....there was time when Tulip bulbs in Holland were in a huge bubble....and then the bubble popped and today nobody is willing to pay much for Tulip bulbs anymore. Bubbles are manias......people get all wee-wee'd up over buying something, and then the bubble pops and then the mania ends.

Its obviously a huge waste of resources to consume energy and release huge amounts of CO2 to generate more and more fiat currencies.

And thats why the Chinese are cracking down and closing Bitcoin mines in China.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I think that just because even the vast majority of people say cryptocurrencies ... is "a complete waste of resources" doesn't make it so.


The Chinese government thinks differently. Thats why they are shutting down Bitcoin mines in China. AND I think there is fair chance other countries will follow China's lead on this one.

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Why should the world waste precious resources on manufacturing cryptocurrencies?.....you can't even light a cigar with a cryptocurrency.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 24 Jun 2021, 18:00:10

Plantagenet wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:How can we know it's a "complete waste of resources" until we know whether crypto-currencies end up functioning, over time, successfully as currencies which replace fiat?


Crypto-currency itself is a "fiat" currency. It has no inherent value. What do you think the value of a dogecoin is, really?

Yes, we've been in a huge cryptocurrency "bubble" that bubble seems to be popping right now. Of course We've seen this kind of thing before....there was time when Tulip bulbs in Holland were in a huge bubble....and then the bubble popped and today nobody is willing to pay much for Tulip bulbs anymore. Bubbles are manias......people get all wee-wee'd up over buying something, and then the bubble pops and then the mania ends.

Its obviously a huge waste of resources to consume energy and release huge amounts of CO2 to generate more and more fiat currencies.

And thats why the Chinese are cracking down and closing Bitcoin mines in China.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I think that just because even the vast majority of people say cryptocurrencies ... is "a complete waste of resources" doesn't make it so.


The Chinese government thinks differently. Thats why they are shutting down Bitcoin mines in China. AND I think there is fair chance other countries will follow China's lead on this one.

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Why should the world waste precious resources on manufacturing cryptocurrencies?.....you can't even light a cigar with a cryptocurrency.

Cheers!

Odd. At the same time, you claim the Chinese are evil conspiracy theorists, who deliberately produceCovid-19 in a lab. And at other times, that they are morally superior beings who want to protect planet earth from energy overuse, even as the Chinese use massive new coal supplies in many new coal plants.

So which is it?

Given your history, I'll opine that you want to talk out of both sides of your mouth to stir up controversy, vs. any actual "search for truth", based on what I've seen posted from you over time.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Tue 20 Jul 2021, 20:16:39

I have no interest in nor want to give an opinion on these monetary instruments other than to say that I think they have run their course. Much in the same way the IT/tech runup and bust of the 90's had run its course, or the precious metals in the 70's runup. These are what are called super bull-markets, they are defined by an almost religious mania and claims that the world has now changed in such a way as that you will be left behind forever if you don't buy in.

They last around 10 years and if you look at the previous ones you will see they all blew up in the beginning of the new decade, coincidence? and that the charts of the run-up and decline are very similar and exhibit the double top feature. Whether this feature is linked to human behavior patterns, who can tell. But it appears over and over.

Super bull-market cheeleaders tell you to throw away the rule book and just BUY. Then the asset collapses into oblivion and the market stays low for a decade or more before it re-asserts itself. In the case of crypto's, well who knows what they will become. But personally after this wipeout I see people demanding at least 'some' stability in their monetary holdings.

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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 23 Jul 2021, 00:23:11

theluckycountry wrote:I have no interest in nor want to give an opinion on these monetary instruments other than to say that I think they have run their course.

So you mean they've run their course for now? i.e. for this cycle?

Because the examples, re gold and the NASDAQ you give, both of those things are MUCH higher now then they were in the charts you show, though that took a fair amount of time to happen, of course.

And as I said, for cryptos I have no clue what they'll do, short or long term. Too new. Too many assumptions. Too much emotion, largely driven by internet debate at the frenzy level, IMO.

(It reminds me of meme stocks like AMC. LOTS of people get very angry if you dare to point out on Youtube AMC pumper videos that if AMC got to $100,000 a share, it would be worth more than ALL US stocks combined. For a business that's basically dying over time due to technology change, like the video rental stores did. And they cite all sorts of conspiracies, and often think that hopes and dreams trump financial reality. What could possibly go wrong there?)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 25 Jul 2021, 14:51:38

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So you mean they've run their course for now? i.e. for this cycle?

Because the examples, re gold and the NASDAQ you give, both of those things are MUCH higher now then they were in the charts you show, though that took a fair amount of time to happen, of course.


Yes and Yes, Whether a specific crypto comes back or not in a decade or two is another question, by then the technology will have moved lightyears on, and looking at the tech stocks which have made a comeback, they are not the startup darlings people invested in at the top of the Dot-com bubble. Things like pets-dot-com etc.

Gold is another matter all together and is really just a part of the commodities complex that blew up back then. Now the above charts and my so called "projections are based on the work of others of course, "Don Cox" notably, but they do not take into account long cycles. What if we are on the brink of an 80 year blow up? Or a 400 year blowup? How does all this apply in a word starving for cheap energy?
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 25 Jul 2021, 15:49:33

This is why we don’t sell our rental property, even though it has appreciated well.

What would we do with the money that is a BETTER investment than what we have?
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 26 Jul 2021, 03:17:30

Newfie wrote:What would we do with the money that is a BETTER investment than what we have?


There is always a time to sell any asset, and always a better one out there, though the only one I could think of in this environment would be farmland but that is not easy to manage and has its own risks.

Every decade has it's unique bull markets. Who guessed early the cryptos would be the last decade's biggest winner? One person I know stuck with them from back when bitcoin was 20 cents. They sold some at around $5000 and did quite well. If they sold the rest now they would be doing VERY well but of course they think it will go on forever so they Hodl.

But what's out there now that is incredibly undervalued and looks ridiculous? There is something that will be worth a fortune in ten years but I'm not smart enough to see it. Not only do you have to see it and buy it, you have to know when to sell it before it tanks. That's the real trick. I'm like you, it's all too risky so I sit with the tried and true snail assets.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby mustang19 » Mon 26 Jul 2021, 04:07:39

theluckycountry wrote:
Newfie wrote:What would we do with the money that is a BETTER investment than what we have?


There is always a time to sell any asset, and always a better one out there, though the only one I could think of in this environment would be farmland but that is not easy to manage and has its own risks.

Every decade has it's unique bull markets. Who guessed early the cryptos would be the last decade's biggest winner? One person I know stuck with them from back when bitcoin was 20 cents. They sold some at around $5000 and did quite well. If they sold the rest now they would be doing VERY well but of course they think it will go on forever so they Hodl.

But what's out there now that is incredibly undervalued and looks ridiculous? There is something that will be worth a fortune in ten years but I'm not smart enough to see it. Not only do you have to see it and buy it, you have to know when to sell it before it tanks. That's the real trick. I'm like you, it's all too risky so I sit with the tried and true snail assets.


Buttcoin is obviously dead, if it were to grow it would crowd out tech. There is no way it could work.

It will follow the rest of the market down, they are not growing the stimulus so it will just grow at a declining rate. Money supply will shrink due to boomers dying and estate tax and this will overwhelm any price gain.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby careinke » Mon 26 Jul 2021, 07:03:13

mustang19 wrote:
theluckycountry wrote:
Newfie wrote:What would we do with the money that is a BETTER investment than what we have?


There is always a time to sell any asset, and always a better one out there, though the only one I could think of in this environment would be farmland but that is not easy to manage and has its own risks.

Every decade has it's unique bull markets. Who guessed early the cryptos would be the last decade's biggest winner? One person I know stuck with them from back when bitcoin was 20 cents. They sold some at around $5000 and did quite well. If they sold the rest now they would be doing VERY well but of course they think it will go on forever so they Hodl.

But what's out there now that is incredibly undervalued and looks ridiculous? There is something that will be worth a fortune in ten years but I'm not smart enough to see it. Not only do you have to see it and buy it, you have to know when to sell it before it tanks. That's the real trick. I'm like you, it's all too risky so I sit with the tried and true snail assets.


Buttcoin is obviously dead, if it were to grow it would crowd out tech. There is no way it could work.

It will follow the rest of the market down, they are not growing the stimulus so it will just grow at a declining rate. Money supply will shrink due to boomers dying and estate tax and this will overwhelm any price gain.


Your timing is hilarious.
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Re: Bitcoin & crypto?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 26 Jul 2021, 10:10:35

careinke wrote:
mustang19 wrote:Buttcoin is obviously dead, if it were to grow it would crowd out tech. There is no way it could work.

It will follow the rest of the market down, they are not growing the stimulus so it will just grow at a declining rate. Money supply will shrink due to boomers dying and estate tax and this will overwhelm any price gain.


Your timing is hilarious.

His overall calls, over time, on so many things he implies "expertise" in, re all his bold predictions is also hilarious, re the final results vs. the real world.

But yeah, BTC (and crypto generally) is as "obviously dead" as how ETP theory worked out for the $2 crude call for 2021 he made when he was calling himself shortonoil.

And I'm NOT saying I have ANY idea what crypto will do in the next 5 minutes or 5 years -- only that I'm honest enough to admit it's not at ALL obvious (which is reflected by a large, highly volatile, and reasonably liquid market for cryptos and crypto infrastructure, overall).

Maybe after the insta-doomers are persistently wrong, overall, for a decade or three, they manage to convince themselves that they're always right. :idea: Certainly that's what much of their rhetoric implies.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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