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Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 11:48:25

mousepad wrote:
suxs wrote:
Truth doesn't seem to be as easy as you might think


You're correct. Thanks for pointing out this poor word choice. A more appropriate noun is "Facts."


Fact is also problematic. There's practically an infinite amount of "facts" underlying any given situation.
So priority needs to be set on "facts". Some "facts" are more important than other "facts".
And here comes the problem. Your priority might not be the same as mine. And I don't think you should decide what my priorities should be just as I don't decide what yours are.

A demonstrable fact is a fact, whatever your emotional state. No matter WHAT your priorities are, your hopes, your dreams, your biases, your intelligence, and especially your FEELINGS, it remains a demonstrable fact.

Opinions are of course, up to the individual, and feelings, priorities, etc. matter a lot with them.

The way you're talking about "facts" -- I'm not so sure you even know what a fact is. Which is rather ironic, but illustrates a big part of the problem in much of American society in recent years.

BTW, you're on the internet and you can google the definition of words like "fact". As Ayn Rand said (through the protagonist, Dagny Taggart), in Atlas Shrugged (1957) to her brother, James Taggart: "James, you ought to discover some day that words have an exact meaning.”
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 14:02:54

World must take definitive action by 2020 to avoid runaway global warming

world-runaway-global-warming

Oopsies!

Missed that deadline....just like our so-called world leaders have missed every opportunity to stop global warming.

Oh well.....might as well just accept the inevitable and make some popcorn and sit back and watch the "end-of-the-world" show now.

Image
Wow! its a global warming armageddon! Just like I predicted! Well....almost like I predicted. Okay...nothing like I predicted but still the end of the world as we know it. This is going to be a heck of a show!!!

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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 14:35:12

Don't worry, Plantagenet! President Biden will have the US government ratify the Paris Climate Accord and that will stop runaway global warming dead on its track. He was only a few days late in announcing this as one of his priorities on his first day as president, so hopefully we still have time. January 21st 2021 will hopefully be good enough. If the USA ratifies the PCA global warming will not only be stopped, I believe the USA can reverse it, too!

Remember that the rest of the world is not warming up as fast as Alaska!
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby mmasters » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 16:50:39

Plantagenet wrote:World must take definitive action by 2020 to avoid runaway global warming

world-runaway-global-warming

Oopsies!

Missed that deadline....just like our so-called world leaders have missed every opportunity to stop global warming.

Oh well.....might as well just accept the inevitable and make some popcorn and sit back and watch the "end-of-the-world" show now.

Image
Wow! its a global warming armageddon! Just like I predicted! Well....almost like I predicted. Okay...nothing like I predicted but still the end of the world as we know it. This is going to be a heck of a show!!!

Cheers!

I wouldn't expect humans to diagnose yet mitigate GW with any degree of accuracy.

A carbon tax isn't healthy for our economic system either.

I think this is something where you just have to make the best of things and try and avoid the avalanche of possible problems.

It will be interesting to watch though.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 19:27:14

Outcast_Searcher wrote:The way you're talking about "facts" -- I'm not so sure you even know what a fact is. Which is rather ironic, but illustrates a big part of the problem in much of American society in recent years.


I'm happy that you know what the problem of society is. I'm not so lucky. I'm struggling to understand.

Regarding fact, however, it's a different story. You see, facts alone are meaningless. It's what you DO based on facts that matters. It's important to understand that. Let's take a simple fact. The sun is shining. That's a fact. But it's completely useless. What's important is that you put on sunscreen because the sun is shining. You see, what you DO is what matters.

The problem now is that every situation is based on a basically infinite amount of facts.

Let me explain based on an example. Lets take my car. There's a few facts about it. It's blue, or it has a 4 cylinder engine, or it has 4 doors, or its seats are black, or it's screws are metric, or it's motor block is made of aluminum.
Many facts, but by far not all. We could go on and on all night stating facts about my car, yet we won't be close to completion.

Now comes the big understanding you seem to lack. When you decide to DO something based on FACTS, you have to prioritize facts that seem important to YOU. You cannot take action based on all the facts. Because there are too many of them. So you pick the facts you think matter. Or you take the facts that you care about. Or you take the facts you like, or you take the facts your peers consider important.

And that's where disagreement come into the picture. The facts you consider important might not be important to me.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 20:27:57

mousepad wrote:Regarding fact, however, it's a different story. You see, facts alone are meaningless. It's what you DO based on facts that matters.


You don't know what to DO if you don't know the facts involved. Therefore, facts are most certainly NOT meaningless.

mousepad wrote: It's important to understand that. Let's take a simple fact. The sun is shining. That's a fact. But it's completely useless.


it is not. It means we can use a PV panel to generate electricity, rather than not. It means we can see, rather than not. It means photosynthesis can proceed, rather than not.

From one simple fact, we can draw a wide range of conclusions of what can happen, will happen, is happening, rather than what can't, won't or isn't.

mousepad wrote:What's important is that you put on sunscreen because the sun is shining. You see, what you DO is what matters.


And you know what to do, what can be done or not done, because FIRST there are facts involved.

mousepad wrote:The problem now is that every situation is based on a basically infinite amount of facts.


Not a problem. A feature. More facts are better than fewer facts, when deciding what to do, what might happen, what can happen or cannot happen, next.

mousepad wrote:Now comes the big understanding you seem to lack. When you decide to DO something based on FACTS, you have to prioritize facts that seem important to YOU.


Incorrect. You don't HAVE TO prioritize anything. Random behavior is both legal, and allowed.

mousepad wrote:You cannot take action based on all the facts.


Of course you can. You and I both do it every day. We decide to do this, we decide to do that, and always surrounded by an infinite universe of facts. We decide to do this and that without even knowing all the facts possible, because there is no requirement of knowing all facts before action.

mousepad wrote:Because there are too many of them. So you pick the facts you think matter. Or you take the facts that you care about. Or you take the facts you like, or you take the facts your peers consider important.


A correction. You operate from the facts you think matter...FROM THE FACTS YOU KNOW. This is where being shit stupid comes in. People who don't know the important facts, and decide to do something based on their ignorance of facts that matter. Peak oilers of yesteryear certainly fell into this bin, as just one example.

mousepad wrote:The facts you consider important might not be important to me.


And either of us might be shit-stupid of the facts related to the topic in question. And therefore make different decisions. But it still starts with facts, and how many we know of, and they do need to be real facts, rather than the alternative kind. Like bell shaped curves describe oil production. That one was an alternative fact and a half!
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 21:20:08

AdamB wrote:
mousepad wrote: Let's take a simple fact. The sun is shining. That's a fact.

it is not.


Now, I'm totally confused. So the sun is shining is an OPINION?
Well, you're an expert. So I'm sure you know.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 21:24:01

AdamB wrote: they do need to be real facts!


I'm really confused here. The other dude, sux and outcast tell me facts are facts.
There comes along you, the expert, telling me there are facts and then there are REAL facts.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 21:44:47

mousepad wrote:
AdamB wrote:
mousepad wrote: Let's take a simple fact. The sun is shining. That's a fact.

it is not.


Now, I'm totally confused. So the sun is shining is an OPINION?


No. It is a conditional fact. The sun does shine, yes. When I wrote my comment, it was not, in fact, shining. Duh.

Facts matter. So do the decisions we make when using them. Or not. I completely agree with you in that regard, that we use facts, or not, when making our following decisions. But it is ridiculous to claim they are meaningless.

mousepad wrote:
Well, you're an expert. So I'm sure you know.


Indeed.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 22:09:15

AdamB wrote:
mousepad wrote:
AdamB wrote:
mousepad wrote: Let's take a simple fact. The sun is shining. That's a fact.

it is not.


Now, I'm totally confused. So the sun is shining is an OPINION?


No. It is a conditional fact. The sun does shine, yes. When I wrote my comment, it was not, in fact, shining. Duh.

Facts matter. So do the decisions we make when using them. Or not. I completely agree with you in that regard, that we use facts, or not, when making our following decisions. But it is ridiculous to claim they are meaningless.

mousepad wrote:
Well, you're an expert. So I'm sure you know.


Indeed.


I assure you the sun was still shining even if it was night or stormy where you happened to be. The sun shines every nanosecond of every day of every year and has been doing so ever since fusion kicked off in its core circa 4.5 Billion years ago. Baring divine intervention it will keep on shining for another several billion years into the future.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 24 Jan 2021, 22:34:09

Subjectivist wrote:I assure you the sun was still shining even if it was night or stormy where you happened to be.


Obviously. Duh. But it does make for an interesting interpretation of what a "fact" is, when the very perception of the fact can make it a fact. Or not. Even facts can require context. Or we need to define "shining" in advance of discussing this fact? :)
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 25 Jan 2021, 10:17:21

Mousepad,

I applauded you for fighting the good fight. :-D
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby dissident » Mon 25 Jan 2021, 11:41:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2qn-q3QmU4

Runaway global idiocy. So now one of Biden's woke SJW drones, Cecilia Martinez, is spewing pure political BS about global warming being a manifestation of whitey's racism. Yeah, when your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail. We have the right wing deniers such as Limbaugh who are afraid their delusional bubble about the Earth being an infinite resource pool and toilet for "individual freedom" (like locusts). Then we have the left wing lunatics like this SJW moron who feels the need to leverage the climate change problem in her crusade for a racial new world order. Discrimination in the name of fairness.

Just what the subject of climate change needs. More politicization and diversion from action due to the ensuing partisan gridlock.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby aadbrd » Mon 25 Jan 2021, 11:49:57

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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 25 Jan 2021, 16:00:41

Some here may find this interesting. Kinda over done on the human interest side.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... if-you-try
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 25 Jan 2021, 20:03:44

Newfie wrote:Some here may find this interesting. Kinda over done on the human interest side.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... if-you-try


That's very good! Thanks! I can a relate to a lot of it.

I gave up trying to talk to people about these issues years ago. I don't even talk to my wife about them that much like I used to. I only write about these issues here at PO. My vow of silence creates a barrier between me and others. I am no longer interested in relating to other people. I want them to live in ignorance and/or denial if they can. I no longer see any positive point in that type of talking; I tried for decades. I teach food gardening, but I focus on the positive reasons to do it, not the prepping/survivalist aspect of it, but rather the healthy eating, spending time outdoors, bonding, community, etc.

I really think the guy shouldn't have had his second son after becoming aware. That was a terrible mistake, IMO. He should become more pragmatic and focus more on his mental and physical health and his relationship with his wife and kids. He sounds like a perfect candidate for suicide.

The situation our species is in is so f***ing ****ed up and inevitable that becoming aware of this is a terrible curse, particularly for people that have children and grandchildren. When I read Ibon's comments on his daughter, Careinke's on his granddaughter, etc. something breaks inside me. I am very glad that I never had children. I can't even imagine how much I would suffer for them when I see how much I suffer for younger people that I've never even met.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 26 Jan 2021, 01:40:45

A climate scientist spent years trying to get people to pay attention to the disaster ahead. His wife is exhausted. His older son thinks there’s no future. And nobody but him will use the outdoor toilet he built to shrink his carbon footprint.


Exactly right. We're going to shit where we want to shit and no amount of pending disaster is going to stop us.

Kind of fatalistic. I think it is good to respect nature and get some joy out of it, but we're all trapped in this industrial paradigm regardless.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 26 Jan 2021, 18:25:48

JD,

This is true. Another way to tuink of it is that we are “trapped” being humans much as an ant is “trapped” in a colony be ause it is an ant. An ant not living inside a colony is not an ant, it is some guy ing else. Probably mostly dead.

Same with humans, we are largely programmed, much as ants, to he colonizing critters. It is very difficult to live an outside the hive experience. Some of us try and succeed to a small degree, but none of us live alone in a cabin in the woods. Those that have tried have not fared well. Think Ruby Ridge.

Perhaps we will evolve in some fashion that allows us to behave differently, but then we wont be homo sapiens, we will be moving towards something entirely different.

My bet is that we don't evolve, not enough time, but ho through such a sever bottle neck that our old hard scrabble ways once again become relevant.

Not picking sides here, ruminating.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 26 Jan 2021, 19:42:58

The generations emerging are more accepting of the way technology has made them more dependent on the human hive. Only old baby boomer romantics still hold on to some ethos of living independent of society. This is not even an issue for emerging generations. As long as technology remains resilient we will culturally improve on our ant hive behavior. Another way to understand this is how privacy moves inwards when you do not have the physical means to build and put yourself in a cabin in the woods. Folks living in crowded urban environments are forced to move their privacy inwards since they cannot manifest privacy externally in the physical world where even your apartment is shared by many as we see in many developing countries.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 15

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 27 Jan 2021, 06:48:50

Yes, I get that.

However, if/when these systems become stressed, there is a significant drop in population, then there way be a return to the old ways.

Obviously I don’t know for sure, postulating.

I am pretty sure there will be a deep population drop.
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