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THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 19 Feb 2017, 01:26:27

Thanks, newf and sub.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 19 Feb 2017, 09:28:38

Pstar,

I don't know if you realize how sensitive you've become. Or if you are intentionally trying to jack folks up. But it was you who drug this into GW.

Ws all get wrapped up now and then and misunderstand or say something silly. Let it go, stuff happens. Try to leave room for disagreement. Try to slow down and make more concrete posts that are less subject to interpretation. Sweeping statements are a wide net for missunderstanding.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 19 Feb 2017, 11:39:39

Pstarr,

The way you allow yourself to get hooked means that your organic social network needs some improvement. If you are emotionally getting hooked on a cyber social media site than you need some real friends. Good wholesome real organic friends are excellent buffers against all the bullshit out there. When you show this board how easily you are getting hooked all the time then you are revealing an unfulfilled social life.

THIS APPLIES TO ALOT OF POSTERS ON THIS BOARD!
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 21 Feb 2017, 13:13:07

pstarr wrote:Your guys are right, and I apologize. I am letting the little things bother me.


Rare to see that. Thank you for setting an example. :-D

I may need it some times. :-D :-D
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 21 Feb 2017, 23:39:44

I posted this on another thread but it is germane here so will copy and paste it.
Well even the land with a gold mine under it or an oilfield has value that changes with the times and the economy around it. Now if your farmland was deprived of oil derived fertilizer and pesticides along with all the other farmland so that yields dropped would it be worth more or less. The demand for food would be the same at least at first and supply would be very reduced.
I cut an ash tree the other day that had succumbed to the Emerald ash borer infestation. I counted the rings in the butt log and determined it to be 70 years old so it was a bean pole sapling when I was a boy helping my father selectively cut our firewood from this stand. It ended up being 70 feet tall and 30 inches through at the butt and yielded a half cord of firewood. The soil on this slope and brook bottom has never been plowed and is a rich black loam and tree growth is good to excellent. Some of the maples which are the majority species on the slope are a hundred years old or more and yield a nice bit of maple syrup each spring. So not all the land in America is a sterile dust that needs chemicals to yield a crop.
edit to add picture of the woods in summer.
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Re: Massive Insect "Die Off" in Europe

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 17:38:25

https://thinkprogress.org/insect-collap ... e68123fa8/

Insect decline in rain forest up to 98%
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 29 Oct 2018, 19:00:20

Animal Species Becoming Extinct in Haiti as Deforestation Nearly Complete

Species of reptiles, amphibians and other vertebrates are becoming extinct in Haiti as deforestation has claimed more than 99 percent of the country's original wooded areas.

A research collaboration that included two scientists affiliated with Oregon State University found that 42 of Haiti's 50 largest mountains have lost all of their primary forest.

Moreover, mountaintop surveys of vertebrates showed that species are disappearing along with the trees, highlighting the global threat to biodiversity by human causes.
... "Species extinction is usually delayed until the last habitats are gone, but mass extinction appears imminent in a small number of tropical countries with low forest cover," ... "And mass extinction is already happening in Haiti because of deforestation."

Along with the mass extinctions, the findings, published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, suggest that over the next two decades Haiti will lose all of its remaining primary forest cover.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 09:43:43

Increasing forest fires searing the U.S.:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-h ... -wildfires
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 09:10:42

"Deforestation in Brazilian Amazon surges to 12 year high"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1208623.shtml

"A total of 11,088 square kilometers of forest was destroyed in Brazil's share of the world's biggest rainforest in the 12 months to August, according to the Brazilian space agency's PRODES monitoring program, which analyzes satellite images to track deforestation."

This is the worst environmental problem in South America after overpopulation. Global warming and climate change are not too bad down there at all. I expect the Amazon to become a Savannah in our lifetimes, drastically affecting precipitation patterns across all of South America. I don't expect the process to be slow or gradual. I invested in underground cisterns, a deep well, and a rainwater collection system at my micro farm in Uruguay, planning to make it through regular 10 year droughts, if necessary. Humans and droughts were my two main concerns.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby REAL Green » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 09:59:17

JuanP wrote:I invested in underground cisterns, a deep well, and a rainwater collection system at my micro farm in Uruguay, planning to make it through regular 10 year droughts, if necessary. Humans and droughts were my two main concerns.


JuanP, how can you invest in a farm in Uruguay when you are never there. I realize this is the internet so maybe what you are saying about your life in Miami Beach is reality or Uruguay is reality or neither. This really doesn't matter except that you represent yourself as respectable here but tell so many different stories about your life. We should be able to trust comment among fellow members. If you are lying then you are misleading us which is not proper membership behavior.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby dissident » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 14:05:34

REAL Green wrote:
JuanP wrote:I invested in underground cisterns, a deep well, and a rainwater collection system at my micro farm in Uruguay, planning to make it through regular 10 year droughts, if necessary. Humans and droughts were my two main concerns.


JuanP, how can you invest in a farm in Uruguay when you are never there. I realize this is the internet so maybe what you are saying about your life in Miami Beach is reality or Uruguay is reality or neither. This really doesn't matter except that you represent yourself as respectable here but tell so many different stories about your life. We should be able to trust comment among fellow members. If you are lying then you are misleading us which is not proper membership behavior.


Take a valium. I know some people who lived in Russia who were Ukrainian by origin who had small farms in Ukraine which they would maintain remotely and visited for part of the year. They were cut off in 2014. What JuanP says is fully realistic. He likely has family in Uruguay that takes care of this land in his absence. You also do not know how often he visits Uruguay in any given year. The current Covid-19 travel restrictions are not relevant.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 16:07:21

dissident wrote:
JuanP wrote:I invested in underground cisterns, a deep well, and a rainwater collection system at my micro farm in Uruguay, planning to make it through regular 10 year droughts, if necessary. Humans and droughts were my two main concerns.


I know some people who lived in Russia who were Ukrainian by origin who had small farms in Ukraine which they would maintain remotely and visited for part of the year. They were cut off in 2014. What JuanP says is fully realistic. He likely has family in Uruguay that takes care of this land in his absence. You also do not know how often he visits Uruguay in any given year. The current Covid-19 travel restrictions are not relevant.


I've only visited the farm in Uruguay twice in the last five years. It is rented to the local doctor for next to nothing to keep it occupied, and some of the workers from the neighbor's farm work there on their free time to make some extra money. My wife visits it once a year with her sister and stays over at a friend's farm, which is a few miles away. A friend manages the property. We intend to go there in our old age.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 18:20:33

Personal attack troll post deleted.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 05 Dec 2020, 12:56:07

Deforestation is a serious topic guys, especially in countries with rapidly growing population density. The USA has done a bit of work with the national forests and national park system, but we are a very wealthy country. IIRC the second largest all natural reserve is the Chernobyl exclusion zone where the absurd fear of background radiation keeps people away allowing natural balance to resume in the ecosystem.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 14 Dec 2020, 17:40:39

Since deforestation is a crucial driver of the current mass extinction event, I'll put this here:


Gerardo Ceballos, Paul R. Ehrlich, and Peter H. Raven (June 16, 2020),

"Vertebrates on the brink as indicators of biological annihilation and the sixth mass extinction",


PNAS, 117, (24), 13596-13602, https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1922686117

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/24/13596

Significance

The ongoing sixth mass extinction may be the most serious environmental threat to the persistence of civilization, because it is irreversible. Thousands of populations of critically endangered vertebrate animal species have been lost in a century, indicating that the sixth mass extinction is human caused and accelerating.

The acceleration of the extinction crisis is certain because of the still fast growth in human numbers and consumption rates. In addition, species are links in ecosystems, and, as they fall out, the species they interact with are likely to go also. In the regions where disappearing species are concentrated, regional biodiversity collapses are likely occurring. Our results reemphasize the extreme urgency of taking massive global actions to save humanity’s crucial life-support systems.


Abstract
The ongoing sixth mass species extinction is the result of the destruction of component populations leading to eventual extirpation of entire species. Populations and species extinctions have severe implications for society through the degradation of ecosystem services. Here we assess the extinction crisis from a different perspective. We examine 29,400 species of terrestrial vertebrates, and determine which are on the brink of extinction because they have fewer than 1,000 individuals. There are 515 species on the brink (1.7% of the evaluated vertebrates). Around 94% of the populations of 77 mammal and bird species on the brink have been lost in the last century. Assuming all species on the brink have similar trends, more than 237,000 populations of those species have vanished since 1900. We conclude the human-caused sixth mass extinction is likely accelerating for several reasons.

First, many of the species that have been driven to the brink will likely become extinct soon.

Second, the distribution of those species highly coincides with hundreds of other endangered species, surviving in regions with high human impacts, suggesting ongoing regional biodiversity collapses.

Third, close ecological interactions of species on the brink tend to move other species toward annihilation when they disappear—extinction breeds extinctions.

Finally, human pressures on the biosphere are growing rapidly, and a recent example is the current coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) pandemic, linked to wildlife trade. Our results reemphasize the extreme urgency of taking much-expanded worldwide actions to save wild species and humanity’s crucial life-support systems from this existential threat.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 10 Jan 2021, 22:46:53

"2020 another grim year for Brazilian Amazon"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212352.shtml

This is a Global Times reprint of an AFP article. Jair Bolsonaro is the worst Brazilian President in the country's history. He also completely f***ed up Brazil's management of the COVID-19 pandemic.

"Brazilian space agency INPE identified 8,426 square kilometers of Amazon rainforest lost to deforestation in 2020, using its DETER monitoring program, which analyzes satellite images to track the destruction monthly. That was the second-most devastating year for Brazil's share of the world's biggest rainforest since the program was launched in 2015.

The amount of forest destroyed was only larger in 2019, when the figure came in at 9,178 square kilometers.

Environmentalists underlined that those were also the first two years in office for far-right President Jair Bolsonaro, who has cut funding for environmental programs and pushed to open protected Amazon lands to agribusiness and mining."
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Mon 11 Jan 2021, 01:39:44

Sooner rather than later the Brazilian rain forest will flip into a savanna regime. The "rain" part of this rain forest is induced by the forest itself through organic aerosol formation. It is not some independent water flux that will exist if the forest is removed. In addition, the nutrient cycle in this forest system is closed and will disappear together with forest. The soils are, ironically, leeched of their nutrient value by the rain that the forest induces. The slash and burn agriculture practiced in Brazil will disappear together with the forest.

Brazil is an example of what is wrong with humans. If there is an abundance of some resource (oil, forest land), then it will be driven into oblivion in the fastest way to make some easy money. Zero long term planning and provisioning. Just pretend it will last forever. Like the old growth white pine in Canada which was destroyed in less than 50 years.
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Re: THE Deforestation Thread pt. 2

Unread postby suxs » Mon 11 Jan 2021, 23:07:21

dissident nailed it.

Brazil is an example of what is wrong with humans. If there is an abundance of some resource (oil, forest land), then it will be driven into oblivion in the fastest way to make some easy money. Zero long term planning and provisioning. Just pretend it will last forever. Like the old growth white pine in Canada which was destroyed in less than 50 years.


Another fine example of this principle at work applies to what was once the world's most productive fishery, bar none. For generations, North Atlantic cod fed millions and employed 50,000 New England fishermen. The cod was such a moneymaker that better technology and larger ships were employed for ever-larger catches. The sickening greed reached its climax in the late 1980s. When government regulators attempted to institute limits, the reaction from the fishing lobby was explosive. Despite the best efforts of environmentalists and scientists, the feeding frenzy continued unabated. The regulators and fishermen reasoned there would be signs if the fishery was in peril. Scientists tried to explain the concept of functional extinction, but nobody was listening. Then came the apocalypse. In 1991 the boats returned with zero catch- not greatly reduced, but nothing as if the cod had in the space of one year disappeared. The reaction was panic and finger-pointing. A total fishing moratorium was immediately instituted hoping the cod would return in a few years. They didn't. The commercial fishing ban still exists while the fishing industry was cratered and the hopium disappeared with the cod long ago.

Despite the passage of almost 30 years, the cod has never recovered to its pre-collapse level nor is it slowly rebuilding.
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