Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby REAL Green » Tue 08 Sep 2020, 05:43:13

“The One Big Problem With Green Hydrogen”
https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy ... rogen.html

“To date, green hydrogen costs between three and six times more to produce than grey or blue hydrogen, according to a senior analyst from Guidehouse quoted by the Wall Street Journal. That is a significant deterrent to the adoption of a technology, but the net-zero drive is changing all this. According to Guidehouse’s Dan Hahn, the cost of green hydrogen production will start going down pretty soon thanks to the investments being made in its advancement… Meanwhile, analysts seem to agree that fossil fuel costs will rise over the next decades, evening the playing field with hydrogen. Wood Mackenzie’s Gallagher, for example, expects the cost of grey hydrogen, the sort produced using coal and gas, to rise by as much as 82 percent by 2040, because of an expected increase in natural gas prices. The cost of blue hydrogen, the sort produced using natural gas combined with carbon capture and storage, is seen rising by 59 percent by 2040, again because of rising natural gas prices. It seems the competitiveness of green hydrogen relies heavily on natural gas prices. If prices do not rise as analysts expect them to, this competitiveness may be compromised, no matter how many billions of energy companies invest in the technology. On the other hand, with the cost of renewable electricity also falling, the cost of producing hydrogen using solar and wind could continue to decline steadily, especially when factoring in excess energy produced by solar and wind farms.”
realgreenadaptation.blog
User avatar
REAL Green
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu 09 Apr 2020, 05:29:28
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 28 Nov 2020, 01:15:22

"Norway based DNV GL halts Nord Stream 2 vessel work on US sanctions"
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/mark ... -spokesman

This is great news for me because I don't want NS2 to be finished. I want Russia to sell as little natural gas to Western Europe as possible. I want Russia to sell its gas to China and other Asian nations. Let the Europeans buy American LNG. That is what they deserve. I hope I live to see the day when Russia stops selling oil and gas to the West. Russia needs to stop supporting Europe's economy, even if it costs it some temporary income loss.

The West is coming down, and the faster that happens the better it will be for the rest of humanity.
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby radon1 » Sat 28 Nov 2020, 05:54:27

Russia is selling gas to China for pennies if not at loss, because China does not need that much gas. They already have supply from the Middle Asian stans and elsewhere. Meanwhile, Russia charges their own citizens at Far East a much greater price for NG than the Chinese just across the border. It is cheaper to buy liquid NG from the US in the Russian Far East than from the Russian domestic producers.

Meanwhile, the Western Europe pays the world market prices for the Russian NG which is a multiple of the Chinese prices. So no, let the Europeans buy all the NG that they want and then some.
radon1
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2052
Joined: Thu 27 Jun 2013, 06:09:44

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 28 Nov 2020, 17:35:49

"Nord Stream 2: Russia's energy project Donald Trump can't seem to stop"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... f=fyhEsXfZ

And the shenanigans continue!
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 29 Nov 2020, 11:14:25

"Construction of Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline to restart next month"
https://www.rt.com/business/508130-nord ... n-resumes/

"Construction on the multibillion-dollar project was abruptly halted at the end of last year, when Swiss-Dutch pipelaying firm Allseas withdrew its vessels over the threat of US sanctions. While Russia has assured its partners that it can finish the project on its own, though with a delay, Washington is still trying to prevent the completion of Nord Stream 2, with the Trump administration threatening new sanctions for companies linked to it."

This is a never ending story!
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 14:17:54

radon1 wrote:Russia is selling gas to China for pennies if not at loss, because China does not need that much gas. They already have supply from the Middle Asian stans and elsewhere. Meanwhile, Russia charges their own citizens at Far East a much greater price for NG than the Chinese just across the border. It is cheaper to buy liquid NG from the US in the Russian Far East than from the Russian domestic producers.

Meanwhile, the Western Europe pays the world market prices for the Russian NG which is a multiple of the Chinese prices. So no, let the Europeans buy all the NG that they want and then some.


You are spewing the usual liberast 5th column talking points.

1) China's gas demand is enormous just based on scaling back coal power plant use.

https://www.petroleum-economist.com/art ... and-growth

So China requires an additional 300 billion cubic meters per year of gas by 2030.

2) The contract signed by Gazprom with China is for $400 billion to supply 38 billion cubic meters per year for 30 years. So we have $13.3 billion for 38 bcm. This is $350 for 1000 cubic meters. Gazprom sold gas to the EU for under $250 per 1000 cubic meters in winter of 2019/2020.

You are clearly a propaganda spreader advancing NATO's regime change agenda in Russia.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 14:24:35

JuanP wrote:"Construction of Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline to restart next month"
https://www.rt.com/business/508130-nord ... n-resumes/

"Construction on the multibillion-dollar project was abruptly halted at the end of last year, when Swiss-Dutch pipelaying firm Allseas withdrew its vessels over the threat of US sanctions. While Russia has assured its partners that it can finish the project on its own, though with a delay, Washington is still trying to prevent the completion of Nord Stream 2, with the Trump administration threatening new sanctions for companies linked to it."

This is a never ending story!


Russia is doing the EU a massive favour by offering it cheap pipeline gas while the EU and its puppet master Uncle Scumbag are busy pissing on Russia's face. I think that Putin is making a serious mistake by continuing with this project. The EU will rue the day it started playing games with natural gas.

The economics of shipping LNG are much better for Russia. LNG can go to the highest bidder and is not subject to blackmail as we see with NS 2. It is stupid being tied to malicious customers. American posturing on supplying LNG to the EU to "replace" Russia is laughable. America imports 80 billion cubic metes per year from Canada. It simply does not have over 150 bcm/year in export capacity. Especially with the conversion of coal power plants to natural gas power plants. What the posturing really entails is the supply of Qatari LNG to the EU.

The fun thing with LNG, is that talk of displacing this and that is for retards. There is a global market as with oil and supplying it defeats any power block extortion attempts.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 01 Dec 2020, 16:17:10

dissident wrote:
JuanP wrote:"Construction of Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline to restart next month"
https://www.rt.com/business/508130-nord ... n-resumes/

"Construction on the multibillion-dollar project was abruptly halted at the end of last year, when Swiss-Dutch pipelaying firm Allseas withdrew its vessels over the threat of US sanctions. While Russia has assured its partners that it can finish the project on its own, though with a delay, Washington is still trying to prevent the completion of Nord Stream 2, with the Trump administration threatening new sanctions for companies linked to it."

This is a never ending story!


Russia is doing the EU a massive favour by offering it cheap pipeline gas while the EU and its puppet master Uncle Scumbag are busy pissing on Russia's face. I think that Putin is making a serious mistake by continuing with this project. The EU will rue the day it started playing games with natural gas.

The economics of shipping LNG are much better for Russia. LNG can go to the highest bidder and is not subject to blackmail as we see with NS 2. It is stupid being tied to malicious customers. American posturing on supplying LNG to the EU to "replace" Russia is laughable. America imports 80 billion cubic metes per year from Canada. It simply does not have over 150 bcm/year in export capacity. Especially with the conversion of coal power plants to natural gas power plants. What the posturing really entails is the supply of Qatari LNG to the EU.

The fun thing with LNG, is that talk of displacing this and that is for retards. There is a global market as with oil and supplying it defeats any power block extortion attempts.


I couldn't have put it better myself. We agree 100% on this.
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 02 Dec 2020, 21:14:45

San Jose Primed to Ban Natural Gas in Most New Buildings
https://www.kqed.org/science/1971311/san-jose-primed-to-ban-natural-gas-in-most-new-buildings

This seems to be happening in all the states that are setting aggressive climate goals.

My house uses natural gas for heating and cooking. It is supposed to be less expensive unless one sells electricity to the power company.

It seems like a good thing. One good thing is the reduced infrastructure required. Of course, natural gas is still probably on the table for electricity generation, but at least this sets the stage for an exit (strategy) from fossil fuels.

For cooking, induction stovetops are supposed to be very good overall, natural gas won't even be missed.

Well, I'll have to settle for LED fireplaces instead of natural gas fireplaces, which is certainly not comparable.
User avatar
jedrider
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2628
Joined: Thu 28 May 2009, 10:10:44

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Thu 03 Dec 2020, 08:22:21

radon1 wrote:Russia is selling gas to China for pennies if not at loss, because China does not need that much gas. They already have supply from the Middle Asian stans and elsewhere. Meanwhile, Russia charges their own citizens at Far East a much greater price for NG than the Chinese just across the border. It is cheaper to buy liquid NG from the US in the Russian Far East than from the Russian domestic producers.

Meanwhile, the Western Europe pays the world market prices for the Russian NG which is a multiple of the Chinese prices. So no, let the Europeans buy all the NG that they want and then some.


Nonsense! Do you have any evidence at all to back such thoroughly unrealistic claims or are they just based on your wishful thinking and personal beliefs? I will add to Dissident's reply above.

"Beijing launches 1,100 km section of Russia-China natural gas pipeline"
https://www.rt.com/business/508524-chin ... e-siberia/

"According to the state-run China Oil & Gas Piping Network Corp (PipeChina), the 1,110km section of the pipeline will stimulate the development of the Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei region, the country’s main manufacturing area, by increasing gas supply by 27 million cubic meters per day."
"China started the construction of the southern section of the China-Russia East pipeline in July, extending the route to Shanghai in eastern China. The pipeline is projected to reach an annual capacity of 38 billion cubic meters when it is completed in 2025."

"Russia's natural gas supplies to China hit new record high"
https://www.rt.com/business/507289-russ ... ies-china/

"Russian energy major Gazprom pumped more gas to China than it had initially planned, boosting daily supplies by as much as 25 percent, according to the company’s data.
The average daily volume of Russian gas exports to its eastern neighbor exceeded the amounts agreed between the two sides last month and between November 1 and November 20, Gazprom revealed after talks with its key Chinese partner, the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) on Friday. In addition to regular shipments, the daily supplies surged by a record 25 percent on November 12.
The previous record was set in October, when the Russian energy company exceeded the agreed amounts of gas exports by 20 percent."
"Russia is set to further increase the supplies of piped gas to China next year, including via the Power of Siberia link as well as the Power of Siberia 2 project, Gazprom said. The latter pipeline entered the design stage earlier this year, and will be capable of delivering as much as 50 billion cubic meters of gas once finished.
Gazprom says that it could boost the exports of natural gas by an additional six billion cubic meters via the 3,000-kilometer Power of Siberia pipeline. During the first eight month of 2020, Gazprom exported some 2.3 billion cubic meters of gas along the route."

"China believes natural gas demand will SOAR"
https://www.rt.com/business/505016-chin ... mand-rise/

"The Chinese economy has been the single largest contributor to global growth over the past several decades. Fossil fuel producers around the world closely watch Beijing, as the goals set by the Chinese government are usually fulfilled.

With that in mind, several recent policies have strengthened expectations of an increase in natural gas consumption. PetroChina, China’s largest natural gas supplier, has predicted that demand will double over the next 15 years to 620 bcm despite the effects of the pandemic and the rising importance of renewables."
Last edited by JuanP on Thu 03 Dec 2020, 08:42:30, edited 1 time in total.
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 03 Dec 2020, 08:40:21

JuanP wrote:Nonsense! I will add to Dissident's reply above.


Radon is closer to the point from what I know. JuanP and dissident are more worried about their Sinophile Russophile agenda than an objective approach to this topic. Both China and Russia have a mixed economic motivation with some political and some economic. Both are very astute with business in isolated circumstances but increasingly their planned economic policy leads to malinvestment. This is not saying the west is much better if not worse this is just saying glorifying these two mixed economies is agenda speak both are guilty of.
realgreenadaptation.blog
User avatar
REAL Green
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu 09 Apr 2020, 05:29:28
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Thu 03 Dec 2020, 10:35:25

"Russian gas flows to Europe remain at 2020 highs in November"
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/mark ... n-november

"Russian exports to Europe via the four main corridors -- Nord Stream, Yamal-Europe, Ukraine and TurkStream -- totaled 13.18 Bcm last month, the data showed."
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 03 Dec 2020, 10:55:50

“Tackling The Natural Gas Industry’s Biggest Problem”
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas ... oblem.html

“A new Energy Institute study is working to tackle this problem exactly. The working paper, “Hard to Measure Well: Can Feasible Policies Reduce Methane Emissions?,” identifies quantifying methane emissions as the first step to finding a cost-effective and efficient means of lowering the natural gas industry’s greenhouse gas footprint. The problem is that much of these emissions come from leaks, which means that operators often aren’t aware that it’s happening in the first place, or how or where to patch the problem. The paper suggests three possible approaches to solving this issue. The first, least promising option involves trial and error audits in the hope of stumbling across a leak. In this scenario, the paper points out, firms would have very little incentive to proactively work on stopping leakage. The second approach is only slightly better, targeting wells that are most likely to be problem areas due to variables like their size and age. The third, and most promising approach, “assumes the regulator can use satellite-based measurements to detect leaks above a certain threshold,” reports the Energy Institute at Haas. “When leaks are remotely sensed, regulatory staff are dispatched to audit. Simulated outcomes under this approach are promising. Better leak detection coupled with the higher fine per unit of emissions leaked gives firms a much stronger incentive to invest in leak prevention.”
realgreenadaptation.blog
User avatar
REAL Green
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu 09 Apr 2020, 05:29:28
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 05 Dec 2020, 12:59:04

Now that it has come up I have not heard any whining about Ukraine suffering from lack of gas because they are late making payments recently. Kind of hard to continue claiming the Crimea was stolen if you simultaneously buy gas from the thief I guess?
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
User avatar
Subjectivist
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 07:38:26
Location: Northwest Ohio

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby JuanP » Fri 22 Jan 2021, 20:18:20

Russia is moving forward with the Soyuz Vostok natural gas pipeline that will allow it to export natural gas from West Siberia to China through Mongolia. This pipeline will allow Russia to export West Siberian natural gas East or West, as it pleases. If the Europeans cancel Nord Stream 2 Russia will export that gas to China through pipelines or as LNG to the global market.

"Gazprom creates company in Mongolia for gas pipeline design"
https://tass.com/economy/1248003

"MOSCOW, January 22. /TASS/. Gazprom has registered in Mongolia Gazoprovod Soyuz Vostok, a special purpose vehicle to deal with design and survey and the feasibility study for the project of building a main gas pipeline across Mongolia for gas deliveries to China, the Russian gas holding says on Friday.

"The Soyuz Vostok gas pipeline will be an extension of the Russian gas pipeline Power of Siberia 2 on the territory of Mongolia, whose export capacity can be more than 1.3 times above the capacity of the Power of Siberia [gas pipeline]. This will make possible to supply gas from West Siberia for export in huge quantities not merely in the Western, but also in the Eastern direction," Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller is cited as saying.

Gazprom plans to complete preparation of the feasibility study for gas pipeline construction through Mongolia in the first quarter of 2021, Miller said this Tuesday at the meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The feasibility study will be actually ready in the first quarter of 2021, he noted.

In December 2019, Gazprom signed a memorandum of understanding with Mongolia, contemplating joint assessment of the opportunity for pipeline gas supplies from Russia to China across Mongolia. In August 2020, a memorandum was signed providing for establishment of a special purpose vehicle to perform a pre-investment project assessment. Planned throughput capacity of the pipeline can be up to 50 bln cubic meters of gas per year."
"Only Americans can hurt America." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Free Meng Wanzhou!
JuanP
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat 16 Aug 2014, 15:06:32

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Fri 22 Jan 2021, 22:20:37

When this Mongolian pipeline is completed, Russia will have 60 + 1.3*60 = 138 bcm/year export capacity to the Orient. That is almost the whole amount it exports to the EU (around 150 bcm/year). The difference is more than replaced by LNG export capacity already coming on stream. The bell is tolling for EU deciders but they are too arrogant to hear.

Maybe the EU can tap Greta.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Fri 22 Jan 2021, 22:24:32

Subjectivist wrote:Now that it has come up I have not heard any whining about Ukraine suffering from lack of gas because they are late making payments recently. Kind of hard to continue claiming the Crimea was stolen if you simultaneously buy gas from the thief I guess?


Banderastan makes all sorts of ludicrous claims. That NATO "recognizes" some of these claims means diddley squat. NATO is not God.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6233
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Previous

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests