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The Methane Thread pt. 2

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 10 Oct 2020, 00:02:14


June 2020: 1872.2 ppb
June 2019: 1858.8 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 10 Oct 2020, 00:03:45

Image
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 11 Oct 2020, 13:25:03

Just checking my log in.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 11 Oct 2020, 13:32:57

Rockman,

Log in - check! :-D
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby REAL Green » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 19:06:01

“The Green Hydrogen Problem That No One Is Talking About”
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... About.html

“Gigawatt upon gigawatt of green hydrogen capacity is being planned across Europe, Asia, and Australia. According to proponents of the technology, green hydrogen - the kind produced through electrolysis powered by solar, wind, and other renewable energy sources - is the best way to decarbonize heavy polluter industries. There is much talk about the falling costs of solar and wind and how they will make green hydrogen viable very soon. What nobody seems to want to talk about is water…One industry source told Oilprice that the production of one ton of hydrogen through electrolysis required an average of nine tons of water. But to get these nine tons of water, it would not be enough to just divert a nearby river. The water that the electrolyzer breaks down into constituent elements needs to be purified. The process of water purification, for its part, is rather wasteful. According to the same source, water treatment systems typically require some two tons of impure water to produce one ton of purified water. In other words, one ton of hydrogen actually needs not nine but 18 tons of water. Accounting for losses, the ratio is closer to 20 tons of water for every 1 ton of hydrogen…Besides being pure, the water to be fed into an electrolyzer has to be transported to it. Transporting tons upon tons of water to the site of an electrolyzer means more expenses for the logistics…Perhaps the cost of water supply, storage, and purification is negligible compared with other costs that need to be addressed first. Yet it is an actual cost that should be added to the total when estimating how far the technology of producing hydrogen from renewable electricity has progressed and how viable it has become. For now, experts appear to be unanimous that it is not viable - not without significant government support.”
realgreenadaptation.blog
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 21:10:24

If it needs government support then it is not worth doing.
But why would you transport water when you can build your plant at the waters edge?
Ever hear of reverse osmosis ?
When and if fuel gets scarce enough and costly enough they will do this without government guidance or support.
Not anytime soon I suspect.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 05 Nov 2020, 05:53:32

I have posted articles showing green hydrogen has many hurdles to overcome from economics to the water needed. If society wants to pursue 100% renewable then green hydrogen is likely the only way to get there. I personally don’t agree with 100% renewable in the imagine of the modern high tech green. IMO the modern green is delusional and drunk on tech. That said we have lots of low hanging fruit of a green transformation that can help with the steps down ahead. Green hydrogen is an exciting field because storage is the Achilles heal for renewables. No other technology can scale like green hydrogen IMO. It likley will take a cornucopia of solutions but green hydrogen looks like one of the most promising for seasonal storage but also transport and an additive for Nat Gas.

https://www.energy-storage.news/images/ ... 0_s_c1.jpg

https://www.energy-storage.news/images/ ... 2_80_s.jpg

“Green hydrogen: The zero-carbon seasonal energy storage solution”
https://www.energy-storage.news/blogs/g ... e-solution

“The resulting graphic clearly demonstrated that in a very high, 100% renewable scenario, multi-day and seasonal energy storage solutions would be required to balance the grid. At that time, the largest form of energy storage within CESA’s membership was pumped hydro, and even that could not offer nearly enough capacity for seasonal energy storage needs…From my explorations, it became clear: of the commercially available solutions, green hydrogen was the only low-carbon, potentially economically viable option to support seasonal, dispatchable, scalable energy storage for the grid…Even more exciting, my research uncovered the amazing flexibility of hydrogen molecules. For example, hydrogen gas can power the grid via multiple pathways, either through conversion in a fuel cell or by direct combustion in a gas turbine. Indeed, many gas turbines were already able to combust a blend of natural gas and hydrogen, and several leading manufacturers, such as Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems and Siemens, were developing new gas turbines that could consume 100% hydrogen gas. Understanding that green hydrogen could serve as a drop-in fuel replacement for natural gas and provide long duration seasonal energy storage using existing infrastructure was my “Eureka!” moment. By repurposing existing energy infrastructure, I knew green hydrogen held the promise of making our clean energy transition affordable, reliable and scalable…Since seasonal energy storage is where my green hydrogen journey started, I wanted to share some reasons I am convinced that green hydrogen is the ideal seasonal energy storage medium: Hydrogen is abundant Green hydrogen offers separate power and energy scaling Green hydrogen can be produced from multiple renewable energy sources Green hydrogen can be stored at scale”
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 06 Nov 2020, 16:17:37

REAL Green wrote: hydrogen .... 100% renewable ...green hydrogen.... modern high tech green.... Green hydrogen is an exciting field ....No other technology can scale like green hydrogen .....green hydrogen looks like one of the most promising


Unfortunately Obama zeroed out the hydrogen car research program in DOE about 10 years ago in favor of putting all US research funding into EVs.

IMHO hydrogen is a very interesting technology, and the US should definitely pursue it, but unfortunately now we're about 10 years behind Japan and other countries who continued to do research on Hydrogen fuels when the US stopped.

Image
Japan's Honda Corporation is now producing the Clarity---a hydrogen fuel cell powered car. We're 10 years behind Japan and we have nothing comparable in the US because about 10 years ago Obama zeroed out all funding for research on hydrogen fuel cell cars.

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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Fri 06 Nov 2020, 18:43:47

Who's building the hydrogen filling stations? At least with EVs there are some plug in points outside of major urban areas. If hydrogen fuel is to become viable, it needs to be made viable. That means "command economy" type decisions to deploy fuel stations with a critical mass to matter. That is what happened with gasoline stations anyway.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 06 Nov 2020, 22:25:04

dissident wrote:Who's building the hydrogen filling stations? At least with EVs there are some plug in points outside of major urban areas. If hydrogen fuel is to become viable, it needs to be made viable. That means "command economy" type decisions to deploy fuel stations with a critical mass to matter. That is what happened with gasoline stations anyway.


In Japan and some other countries there are hydrogen filling stations.

In the US there aren't any hydrogen filing stations and there isn't a viable hydrogen fuel cell car industry because the Obama administration decided the US should focus only on EVs.

Image
Japanese hydrogen filling station

Cheers!
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Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama

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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 08 Nov 2020, 10:06:57


July 2020: 1872.0 ppb
July 2019: 1858.4 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 15 Nov 2020, 21:47:00

Watch it and weep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1ChxLmpbz4

Arctic Methane: Has 2020 triggered a tipping point?


New survey reveals massive methane release
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Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 27 Nov 2020, 08:24:25

https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/ ... ic-tundra/

The recently-formed new hole or funnel is the latest to be seen in northern Siberia since the phenomenon was first registered in 2014.
...
The 'crater' - these holes are called hydrolaccoliths or bulgunnyakhs by scientists - is given the number 17, and is seen as the most impressive of the large holes to suddenly appear in recent years as the permafrost thaws.
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