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Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Sep 2020, 13:55:03

dissident wrote:

The sea ice/slush is going to disappear to be replaced with a regional greenhouse regime. The Arctic will flip from a frozen state at the surface to a year round above zero regime.
I very much doubt that. You might get the climate we are used to in the mid latitudes (ie. 40 -50 degrees North) moved to the Arctic but that would still give you long cold winters and mild to hot summers. Add in the length of the winter nights above 80 Deg. N and it is still "gonna be wicked cold" for seven months of the year.
I live at 44 degrees North. My heating season is 225 days long and mid winter temps can and do drop to -40 degrees and 72 inches of snow is average. The ground is snow covered typically from mid November to the first of April with one year in ten extending to May first.
That would be quite a change to give to the arctic ecosystem but it is not year round above zero C. temperatures.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 25 Sep 2020, 16:24:05

Interesting, Bonavista, near our cabin at 48° and is milder. Even in winter the sea moderates the local climate.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby careinke » Fri 25 Sep 2020, 20:01:44

Were at 47.25 N. and have way milder weather. Sometimes Orographic variations make more difference than Latitude.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 25 Sep 2020, 20:24:01

Not only do you fellows make valid points, but IIRC the last time the Arctic was really ice free we had palm trees growing in southern Greenland and Alligators in the Saint Lawrence river. Take away the ice and you take away an astoundingly large heat sink and reflection system that cools things off tremendously.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Sep 2020, 20:42:34

While the gulf stream has and will make the climate North of Norway milder, or warmer if you prefer, then the rest of the Arctic that effect will not extend to the middle of the Siberian coast or to the Alaska to Canada archipelagoes. There is just too much area radiating heat out into the Arctic night for an ocean current to overcome it from one point of entry.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 26 Sep 2020, 14:52:19

We see huge effects from the changes in Arctic sea ice here in Alaska. Alaska is basically a big peninsula sticking out into the North Pacific and the Arctic Ocean, and is separated from mainland Asia by the Bering Straits.

When the Bering Straits freeze over in the fall, the influence of the ocean goes away and Alaska essentially becomes connected to Siberia and our weather becomes much much colder.

Back in the old days we used to see lots of snow and -20° temperatures by mid-October. Nowadays we can be snow free all the way into November.

I can sit here in central Alaska and know when the Bering Strait freezes over and the Bering Sea starts to freeze because our temperatures almost immediately drop precipitously.

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Cold winter weather doesn't come to Alaska until the sea ice freezes across the Bering Straits and down into the Bering Sea.......and these days that doesn't happen until late October. No doubt with continued global warming it will soon be delayed until even later into the winter.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 01 Oct 2020, 07:50:56

“The Arctic hasn't been this warm for 3 million years–and that foreshadows big changes for the rest of the planet”
https://phys.org/news/2020-09-arctic-ha ... adows.html

“Today the Arctic is a treeless plain with only sparse tundra vegetation, such as grasses, sedges and a few flowering plants. In contrast, the Russian sediment cores contained pollen from trees such as larch, spruce, fir and hemlock. This shows that boreal forests, which today end hundreds of miles farther south and west in Russia and at the Arctic Circle in Alaska, once reached all the way to the Arctic Ocean across much of Arctic Russia and North America. Because the Arctic was much warmer in the Pliocene, the Greenland Ice Sheet did not exist. Small glaciers along Greenland's mountainous eastern coast were among the few places with year-round ice in the Arctic. The Pliocene Earth had ice only at one end—in Antarctica—and that ice was less extensive and more susceptible to melting. Because the oceans were warmer and there were no large ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere, sea levels were 30 to 50 feet (9 to 15 meters) higher around the globe than they are today. Coastlines were far inland from their current locations. The areas that are now California's Central Valley, the Florida Peninsula and the Gulf Coast all were underwater. So was the land where major coastal cities like New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Houston and Seattle stand. Warmer winters across what is now the western U.S. reduced snowpack, which these days supplies much of the region's water. Today's Midwest and Great Plains were so much warmer and dryer that it would have been impossible to grow corn or wheat there.”
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 06 Oct 2020, 14:51:29

"The Arctic hasn't been this warm for 3 million years, and that foreshadows big changes for the rest of the planet"
https://theconversation.com/the-arctic- ... net-144544

This is worth reading. Some CO2 data analysis included. Follow the link for the full article.

"Every year, sea ice cover in the Arctic Ocean shrinks to a low point in mid-September. This year it measures just 1.44 million square miles (3.74 million square kilometers) – the second-lowest value in the 42 years since satellites began taking measurements. The ice today covers only 50% of the area it covered 40 years ago in late summer."

"Today the Arctic is a treeless plain with only sparse tundra vegetation, such as grasses, sedges and a few flowering plants. In contrast, the Russian sediment cores contained pollen from trees such as larch, spruce, fir and hemlock. This shows that boreal forests, which today end hundreds of miles farther south and west in Russia and at the Arctic Circle in Alaska, once reached all the way to the Arctic Ocean across much of Arctic Russia and North America."
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby dissident » Tue 06 Oct 2020, 15:31:48

Low altitude clouds, fog and stratospheric PSCs are key to explain the palm trees and crocodiles in the Arctic during the Eocene. CO2 cannot account for this since during the Eocene it was under 600 ppmv:

dF = 5.35 ln(C/C_0) where C_0 = 300 ppmv (as a reference)

so dF = 3.7 W/m^2

This level of radiative forcing is not enough to make the polar caps balmy even during the summer. Of course there is the pumping of heat via the atmosphere and oceans in the form of eddies and currents. But a local greenhouse regime induced by H2O would be very effective at retaining the heat and really increasing the temperatures near the surface.

During major warming events moisture is not only pumped via eddy fluxes in the troposphere but also makes it into the lowermost stratosphere in the tropics and "rolls" down the tropopause to high latitudes. This stratospheric moisture is a very large delta on non-warmed climate and facilitates the formation of tropopause layer cirrus and polar stratospheric clouds at higher altitudes especially in polar night conditions. These lower stratosphere clouds act like glass and re-emit IR down which would have escaped to space. The atmosphere is optically thin to IR radiation above the tropopause.

The pumping of moisture into the lowermost stratosphere would not be intermittent, but ongoing. The transport in the stratosphere exhibits a persistent meridional circulation component (ascent at low latitudes and descent at high latitudes) in addition to the horizontal mixing by planetary scale Rossby wave breaking in the "surf zone" in the subtropics and middle latitudes. So we have a persistent transport of heat via the oceans into the Arctic which is trapped by the distinct water condensation regime extending into the stratosphere.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 07 Oct 2020, 05:24:43

Wait until there is no ice pack for new ice to start forming from. Already it is expanding from the remaining ice. It's not expanding from the shore, or from random places at sea. It may, but early on, it seems to expand from the existing ice. That delay alone, might cause the height of ice creation not to be nearly as overwhelming as it once was. The slope of the curve to full melt would not be as steep as it would have to be now. It wouldn't because it would start from a lower high.
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Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 10 Oct 2020, 15:06:07

Diss on the loss of sea ice and changes for the global weather systems

The pumping of moisture into the lowermost stratosphere would not be intermittent, but ongoing. The transport in the stratosphere exhibits a persistent meridional circulation component (ascent at low latitudes and descent at high latitudes) in addition to the horizontal mixing by planetary scale Rossby wave breaking in the "surf zone" in the subtropics and middle latitudes. So we have a persistent transport of heat via the oceans into the Arctic which is trapped by the distinct water condensation regime extending into the stratosphere.


Would that alter the current view of Hadley cell expansion/Ferrel cell collapse/polar cell weakening?
Tanada had a post on a shift to a one cell system some time ago......would that be the outcome of a hothouse Earth after an abrupt CC? This is all very interesting to see develop in real time, though very hard for our farmers to provide for our grain based society :cry:

Here some discussion on atmospheric circulation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Atmo ... l_critique

In the atmospheric circulation article, as in almost all textbook illustrations (with the exception of Laing, Fig. 145, p. 370 and Fig. 14.7, p. 373), a Ferrel cell is shown turning between equatorial Hadley cells and Polar cells as would a cog if all were such. Ferrel, after whom the cell is named, drew no such picture. He was concerned with describing the surface flow in the Temperate zone of air that came from the Horse Latitudes, namely the Westerlies.
In short, the Ferrel cell does not exist. Air that flows north moves aloft along the Polar front swirls east and settles at the poles to move south and make its way as an unsteady ground flow back to the tropics.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 12 Oct 2020, 14:07:47

"Biggest North Pole mission returns from 'dying Arctic'"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1203201.shtml

"The German Alfred Wegener Institute's Polarstern ship is set to return to the port of Bremerhaven after 389 days spent drifting through the Arctic trapped in ice, allowing scientists to gather vital information on the effects of global warming in the region.
The team of several hundred scientists from 20 countries have seen for themselves the dramatic effects of global warming on ice in the region, considered "the epicenter of climate change," according to mission leader Markus Rex."
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Re:

Unread postby dissident » Tue 13 Oct 2020, 11:45:51

Whitefang wrote:Would that alter the current view of Hadley cell expansion/Ferrel cell collapse/polar cell weakening?
Tanada had a post on a shift to a one cell system some time ago......would that be the outcome of a hothouse Earth after an abrupt CC? This is all very interesting to see develop in real time, though very hard for our farmers to provide for our grain based society :cry:

Here some discussion on atmospheric circulation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Atmo ... l_critique

In the atmospheric circulation article, as in almost all textbook illustrations (with the exception of Laing, Fig. 145, p. 370 and Fig. 14.7, p. 373), a Ferrel cell is shown turning between equatorial Hadley cells and Polar cells as would a cog if all were such. Ferrel, after whom the cell is named, drew no such picture. He was concerned with describing the surface flow in the Temperate zone of air that came from the Horse Latitudes, namely the Westerlies.
In short, the Ferrel cell does not exist. Air that flows north moves aloft along the Polar front swirls east and settles at the poles to move south and make its way as an unsteady ground flow back to the tropics.


I recall talk back in the 1990s about baroclinic eddies becoming smaller as the high latitudes warmed. The idea is that these eddies are part of a baroclinic adjustment acting against the extratropical meridional temperature gradient via pumping heat to higher latitudes. At the same time the baroclinic eddies feed off the available potential energy which is manifested in the gradient. The temperature gradient is formed by differential heating of the tropics and the higher latitudes which persists year round even if the tropical heating maximum oscillates around the equator. So the naive expectation is that CO2 induced warming of high latitudes would reduce the available potential energy for the growth of the baraoclinic eddies and reduce braoclinic adjustment.

The Ferrel cell is a direct reflection of the formation and shedding of baroclinic eddies from the subtropical jets. The Hadley circulation drives the subtropical zonal wind maxima. The vertical wind gradient (shear) in these jets is coupled to the subtropical temperature gradient via the thermal wind relation. This combination of vertical wind gradient and horizontal gemperature gradient results in baroclinic instability which typically spawns baroclinic eddies but can also produce blocking in a sort of stuck eddy formation process. The Ferrel cell results from an overly simplistic analysis of the governing equations. Specifically the separation of the 3D circulation into a zonally (east-west) averaged component and so-called eddy flux terms which are averaged products of deviations from zonal-mean flow. This framework has merit since the atmospheric circulation is substantially separated into a strong zonal component and wave/eddy "perturbations" on it. The framework is very robust in the stratosphere and higher altitudes since the air parcels circle the axis of rotation of the Earth (the poles) consistently. In the troposphere a substantial fraction of air parcels never make such a circumnavigation but nevertheless the framework is useful.

The derivation of the zonal-mean dynamical equations involves:

u = [u] + u'
v = [v] + v'
w = [w] + v'
T = [T] + T'

[u'] = [v'] = [w'] = [T'] = 0

where [] denotes an average over the longitudinal (zonal) direction giving fields that are functions of latitude, height and time. The primed fields are 3D deviations from the zonal mean and have a zero zonal mean by construction. For example take the zonal wind component of the Navier Stokes equations

du/dt + u du/dx + v du/dy + w du/dz - f v = F_x

substitute

d([u]+u')/dt + ([u]+u')d([u]+u')/dx + ([v]+v') d([u]+u')/dy + ([w]+w')d([u]+u')/dz - f ([v] + v') = F_x

where x is longitude, y is latitude and z is height/altitude. Take the zonal mean

d[u]/dt + [[u]du'/dx] + [u' du'/dx] + [[v]d[u]/dy] + [v' d[u]/dy] + [[v]du'/dy] + [v'du'/dy] + [[w]d[u]/dz] + [w' d[u]/dz] + [[w]du'/dz] + [w'du'/dz] - f[v] = [F_x]

all terms with a single primed component will go to zero, leaving

d[u]/dt + [u' du'/dx] + [v]d[u]/dy + [v' du'/dy] + [w]d[u]/dz + [w' du'/dz] - f[v] = [F_x]

the products of primes components are the so called eddy flux terms and are moved to the right hand side since they are considered forcing terms:

d[u]/dt + [v]d[u]/dy + [w]d[u]/dz - f[v] = [F_x] + [u' du'/dx] + [v' du'/dy] + [w' du'/dz]

However, there is a problem. A simple algebraic manipulation to produce this zonal-mean dynamical framework misses a subtle detail: there is a substantial cancellation between eddy flux components on the right hand side of the governing equations and the left hand side. Atmospheric dynamicists did not realize this until the 1970s when Andrews and McIntyre put the zonal-mean framework on a solid theoretical basis. The simple zonal mean meridional circulation given by [v] and [w] gives a Ferrel cell. But deeper analysis requires the use of the so called transformed Eulerian (zonal) mean (TEM):

v* = [v] + EF_y and w* = [w] + EF_z

where EF_y and EF_z are eddy flux correction terms which I am too lazy to write out. So some of the eddy flux which was moved to the right hand side above cancels out with [v] and [w]. This is not contrived or ad hoc. It would take too long to fully explain but is motivated by first principles. With the TEM formulation there is no Ferrel cell. Empirical justification why TEM is more accurate is that transport of tracers (which are like passive markers of the flow) shows no evidence of any upwelling in middle latitudes on the polar flank of the Ferrel cell. There is downward transport on the polar flanks of the Hadley circulation since it is really there and not an artifact of the analysis. But there is also a poleward-downward transport of air parcels spanning the extratropics to the poles.

Now to the main point. The idea that baroclinic adjustment would slowly shut down because of relative warming of the higher latitudes is in my view simply wrong. Ultimately the tropospheric circulation (and indirectly the circulation above the tropopause in the middle atmosphere) is driven by heating with the planetary rotation acting via the Coriolis torque and the gravitational stratification of the atmosphere acting to organize the circulation. The Hadley circulation is intensifying even if it is not dramatically change its distribution. It is getting wider which means that the subtropical jets that it induces are amplifying as well. The simplistic pole to equator temperature gradient view simply misses this critical fact. Amplification of the subtropical jets directly leads to more baroclinic instability and not less. Relative warming of the polar caps does not impact this whatsoever as it is a physically distinct process. A key detail that is hard to see from all the scientific hot air is that there are three parts of the zonal circulation ([u]), the subtropical jet component and a smeared out middle latitude component which is induced by the transport of zonal momentum by baroclinic eddies into the middle latitudes. This secondary zonal flow also undergoes baroclinic instability. There is also a winter time polar front jet that is induced by the rapid cooling during the polar night. What we have been seeing is the weakening of the polar front jet resulting in more eddy heat transport into the polar caps in winter. This weakening is due to the warming of the Arctic Ocean the reduced sea ice cover in September and into October compared to the pre-1980 period.

By contrast, there is no indication at all that the subtropical jets are weakening. And they should not be expected to weaken. These jets are induced by the transport of the zonal momentum from near the equator to the subtropics by the Hadley circulation. Assorted friction processes including vertically propagating wave types that form in the special low Coriolis torque region near the equator and deep convection itself keep the zonal flow near zero around the equator. Moving air parcels off the equator to the extratropics without an efficient loss mechanism for their zonal momentum implies that they accelerate relative to the ground due to geometry (the angular speed of the atmosphere near the equator is faster than at higher latitudes). This is how the Hadley circulation spins up the zonal jets in addition to the thermal wind balance component associated with heat pumping.

So there is no global warming valve closing off the source of baroclinic eddies in the subtropical troposphere. The only thing that will happen is that more heat will be transported into the polar caps. The thermodynamic balance will simply shift to more warming in the tropics and more cooling near the poles. That is the only physically rational picture. It does not make sense for the heat to be accumulating near the equator in a self-isolating fashion. That violates entropy maximization and is simply nonsense since any tropical heat accumulation would drive up tropical temperatures and generate an absurdly sharp meridional temperature gradient. That would crank up baroclinic adjustment. Warming in the extratropics must result from local CO2 IR trapping and from dynamical heat transport. This is why simplistic evaluations of polar heating based on CO2 alone are misleading. The CO2 increase will be differentially warming the poles through dynamical heat transport.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Azothius » Thu 22 Oct 2020, 15:12:01

saw this quoted over at the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, so just re-sharing here:


Alarm as Arctic sea ice not yet freezing at latest date on record
Delayed freeze in Laptev Sea could have knock-on effects across polar region, scientists say


For the first time since records began, the main nursery of Arctic sea ice in Siberia has yet to start freezing in late October.

The delayed annual freeze in the Laptev Sea has been caused by freakishly protracted warmth in northern Russia and the intrusion of Atlantic waters, say climate scientists who warn of possible knock-on effects across the polar region.

Ocean temperatures in the area recently climbed to more than 5C above average, following a record breaking heatwave and the unusually early decline of last winter’s sea ice.

The trapped heat takes a long time to dissipate into the atmosphere, even at this time of the year when the sun creeps above the horizon for little more than an hour or two each day.

Graphs of sea-ice extent in the Laptev Sea, which usually show a healthy seasonal pulse, appear to have flat-lined. As a result, there is a record amount of open sea in the Arctic.

For the first time since records began, the Laptev sea has yet to start freezing by late October


“The lack of freeze-up so far this fall is unprecedented in the Siberian Arctic region,” said Zachary Labe, a postdoctoral researcher at Colorado State University. He says this is in line with the expected impact of human-driven climate change.


“2020 is another year that is consistent with a rapidly changing Arctic. Without a systematic reduction in greenhouse gases, the likelihood of our first ‘ice-free’ summer will continue to increase by the mid-21st century,’ he wrote in an email to the Guardian.

This year’s Siberian heatwave was made at least 600 times more likely by industrial and agricultural emissions, according to an earlier study.

The warmer air temperature is not the only factor slowing the formation of ice. Climate change is also pushing more balmy Atlantic currents into the Arctic and breaking up the usual stratification between warm deep waters and the cool surface. This also makes it difficult for ice to form.

“This continues a streak of very low extents. The last 14 years, 2007 to 2020, are the lowest 14 years in the satellite record starting in 1979,” said Walt Meier, senior research scientist at the US National Snow and Ice Data Center. He said much of the old ice in the Arctic is now disappearing, leaving thinner seasonal ice. Overall the average thickness is half what it was in the 1980s.

The downward trend is likely to continue until the Arctic has its first ice-free summer, said Meier. The data and models suggest this will occur between 2030 and 2050. “It’s a matter of when, not if,” he added.

Scientists are concerned the delayed freeze could amplify feedbacks that accelerate the decline of the ice cap. It is already well known that a smaller ice sheet means less of a white area to reflect the sun’s heat back into space. But this is not the only reason the Arctic is warming more than twice as fast as the global average.

The Laptev Sea is known as the birthplace of ice, which forms along the coast there in early winter, then drifts westward carrying nutrients across the Arctic, before breaking up in the spring in the Fram Strait between Greenland and Svalbard. If ice forms late in the Laptev, it will be thinner and thus more likely to melt before it reaches the Fram Strait. This could mean fewer nutrients for Arctic plankton, which will then have a reduced capacity to draw down carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

More open sea also means more turbulence in the upper layer of the Arctic ocean, which draws up more warm water from the depths.

Dr Stefan Hendricks, a sea ice physics specialist at the Alfred Wegener Institute, said the sea ice trends are grim but not surprising. “It is more frustrating than shocking. This has been forecast for a long time, but there has been little substantial response by decision-makers.”
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 23 Oct 2020, 00:33:30

How long can the region remain ice free? Its pretty dark up there now and the air temps are falling to deep freeze levels. The sea must be dumping millions of calories of stored heat into the boundary layer of near surface air if it isn't freezing yet.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 23 Oct 2020, 02:27:21

Subjectivist wrote:How long can the region remain ice free? Its pretty dark up there now and the air temps are falling to deep freeze levels. The sea must be dumping millions of calories of stored heat into the boundary layer of near surface air if it isn't freezing yet.

Not long. The pole is already in 24 hour darkness and the days at the edge of the arctic circle are losing about 10 minutes of faint low angle sunlight a day. Here is a link to the weather at Thule air base Greenland. Already below freezing with snow in the forecast,.
https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Th ... d+GLXX0015
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Azothius » Fri 23 Oct 2020, 08:40:17

Subjectivist wrote:How long can the region remain ice free? Its pretty dark up there now and the air temps are falling to deep freeze levels. The sea must be dumping millions of calories of stored heat into the boundary layer of near surface air if it isn't freezing yet.



It will be interesting to watch this unfold.
both Air Temp Anomaly and SST Anomaly still at play:

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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby dissident » Fri 23 Oct 2020, 13:52:56

vtsnowedin wrote:
dissident wrote:

The sea ice/slush is going to disappear to be replaced with a regional greenhouse regime. The Arctic will flip from a frozen state at the surface to a year round above zero regime.
I very much doubt that. You might get the climate we are used to in the mid latitudes (ie. 40 -50 degrees North) moved to the Arctic but that would still give you long cold winters and mild to hot summers. Add in the length of the winter nights above 80 Deg. N and it is still "gonna be wicked cold" for seven months of the year.
I live at 44 degrees North. My heating season is 225 days long and mid winter temps can and do drop to -40 degrees and 72 inches of snow is average. The ground is snow covered typically from mid November to the first of April with one year in ten extending to May first.
That would be quite a change to give to the arctic ecosystem but it is not year round above zero C. temperatures.


Doubt based on what? Gut feelings?

Just because you never did any analysis and research of scientific literature on the subject does not make you qualified to fob off physical processes and assert a perpetual current state. One that has clearly not always been there given the fossil record.

Try harder.
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby Azothius » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 10:16:12

'Sleeping giant' Arctic methane deposits starting to release, scientists find

Exclusive: expedition discovers new source of greenhouse gas off East Siberian coast has been triggered

Tue 27 Oct 2020, Last modified on Wed 28 Oct 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... tists-find

Scientists have found evidence that frozen methane deposits in the Arctic Ocean – known as the “sleeping giants of the carbon cycle” – have started to be released over a large area of the continental slope off the East Siberian coast, the Guardian can reveal.

High levels of the potent greenhouse gas have been detected down to a depth of 350 metres in the Laptev Sea near Russia, prompting concern among researchers that a new climate feedback loop may have been triggered that could accelerate the pace of global heating
.

The international team onboard the Russian research ship R/V Akademik Keldysh said most of the bubbles were currently dissolving in the water but methane levels at the surface were four to eight times what would normally be expected and this was venting into the atmosphere.

“At this moment, there is unlikely to be any major impact on global warming, but the point is that this process has now been triggered. This East Siberian slope methane hydrate system has been perturbed and the process will be ongoing,” said the Swedish scientist Örjan Gustafsson, of Stockholm University, in a satellite call from the vessel.



At one location on the Laptev Sea slope at a depth of about 300 metres they found methane concentrations of up to 1,600 nanomoles per litre, which is 400 times higher than would be expected if the sea and the atmosphere were in equilibrium.

Igor Semiletov, of the Russian Academy of Sciences, who is the chief scientist onboard, said the discharges were “significantly larger” than anything found before. “The discovery of actively releasing shelf slope hydrates is very important and unknown until now,” he said. “This is a new page. Potentially they can have serious climate consequences, but we need more study before we can confirm that.”
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Re: Arctic Sea Ice 2020

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 19:26:33

vtsnowedin wrote:
Subjectivist wrote:How long can the region remain ice free? Its pretty dark up there now and the air temps are falling to deep freeze levels. The sea must be dumping millions of calories of stored heat into the boundary layer of near surface air if it isn't freezing yet.

Not long. The pole is already in 24 hour darkness and the days at the edge of the arctic circle are losing about 10 minutes of faint low angle sunlight a day. Here is a link to the weather at Thule air base Greenland. Already below freezing with snow in the forecast,.
https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Th ... d+GLXX0015

OMG! Five minutes less at dusk per day is huge. I am not patronizing you. That's what you get in almost a week at lower latitudes right now. It's still not that noticeable, but it is noticeable per day if you are observant. It does hit you weekend to weekend, and you are talking about that much per day. Wow!
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