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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 10 Sep 2020, 12:17:28

dissident wrote:Humans will be too busy pointing fingers at each other instead of getting their act together to deal with the looming cataclysm.

This is natural selection in play.


One of the myths of natural selection is that all the stupid perish and all the smart get selected for. Unfortunately during cataclysmic events there is a level of chaos that produces quirky results, a major tidal wave of instability takes out many of the smart and will also leave many of the stupid.

Natural selection is never as clean and efficient as folks like to imagine.

Therein lies natural selection's beauty as well for chaos provides curve balls.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dissident » Thu 10 Sep 2020, 12:35:04

Ibon wrote:
dissident wrote:Humans will be too busy pointing fingers at each other instead of getting their act together to deal with the looming cataclysm.

This is natural selection in play.


One of the myths of natural selection is that all the stupid perish and all the smart get selected for. Unfortunately during cataclysmic events there is a level of chaos that produces quirky results, a major tidal wave of instability takes out many of the smart and will also leave many of the stupid.

Natural selection is never as clean and efficient as folks like to imagine.

Therein lies natural selection's beauty as well for chaos provides curve balls.


That is rather clear to those that have some knowledge of evolution. You can see multiple examples of life that is not conforming to some 1800s Cecil Rhodes view of "survival of the fittest" but propagates based on certain characteristics. Balsam fir trees are one such case. They grow like weeds in the forest canopy shade but produce mature trees that rot away.

Humans are conforming to natural selection whether they want it or not. Right now all of the vaunted IQ of humans is nullified by primitive tribalism and delusions. No magic self-organizing response to climate change is happening. Instead we have delusions on both the individual and societal levels about BAU being OK for the near term. Some people realize the sort of structural change that is needed in society and economics to deal with climate change, but most don't. They don't even have the inkling of a clue.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 10 Sep 2020, 15:55:15

" Some people realize the sort of structural change that is needed in society and economics to deal with climate change, but most don't. They don't even have the inkling of a clue."

Nicely put!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 10 Sep 2020, 18:27:14

dohboi wrote:" Some people realize the sort of structural change that is needed in society and economics to deal with climate change, but most don't. They don't even have the inkling of a clue."

Nicely put!


I think most have more than an inkling of a clue. I would name this willfull cluelessness.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 14 Sep 2020, 05:39:27

“Heatwaves are becoming more deadly as nights warm faster than days”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/climate ... aster.html

“Summer night temperatures are warmer now, and they are warming at a faster rate than daytime temperatures, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. This marks a dangerous and potentially deadly combination of high daytime and high nighttime temperatures that doesn't give the human body a chance to cool down during the night. "Warm nights mean less chance to cool down, exacerbating exposures to high temperatures, particularly for vulnerable people and locations,"… In the U.S., heat kills more people than any other weather disaster, from floods to hurricanes…Climate change is making heatwaves and droughts more common, intense and widespread…Climate change is also causing more humid heatwaves…The temperature extremes are a result of global climate change as well as a so-called urban heat island, which occurs when heat from the daytime is taken in by heat-absorbing asphalt or concrete, driving hotter nights and early mornings.”
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby jawagord » Mon 14 Sep 2020, 11:00:08

REAL Green wrote:“Heatwaves are becoming more deadly as nights warm faster than days”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/climate ... aster.html

“Summer night temperatures are warmer now, and they are warming at a faster rate than daytime temperatures, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. This marks a dangerous and potentially deadly combination of high daytime and high nighttime temperatures that doesn't give the human body a chance to cool down during the night. "Warm nights mean less chance to cool down, exacerbating exposures to high temperatures, particularly for vulnerable people and locations,"… In the U.S., heat kills more people than any other weather disaster, from floods to hurricanes…Climate change is making heatwaves and droughts more common, intense and widespread…Climate change is also causing more humid heatwaves…The temperature extremes are a result of global climate change as well as a so-called urban heat island, which occurs when heat from the daytime is taken in by heat-absorbing asphalt or concrete, driving hotter nights and early mornings.”


If you live in Phoenix and you can’t afford a cheap bedroom air conditioner maybe you need to move somewhere colder? Of course if you can’t afford air conditioning you probably can’t afford to heat a more northern house in winter so you really are screwed. But it seems humans prefer living where it’s hot versus where it’s cold so perhaps it’s not the great problem Emma is making it out to be? The air conditioning solution is readily at hand for any society that chooses to embrace cheap reliable electricity provided by fossil fuels like coal and natural gas.

PS turned our gas furnace back on today, no A/C again this summer, just another 9 months of heating to get through fall, winter and spring!

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Midea/pag ... f_=ast_bln

Today, 40% of the world's population resides within the hot tropical regions, where many of whom are exposed to potentially life-threatening temperatures for at least 20 days a year. Approximately 12,000 people die around the world annually due to heatwaves...

Access to cooling can be an effective means of preventing fatalities caused by extreme heat stress
– but unfortunately, people living in tropical and sub-tropical regions have dramatically lower access to cooling.

Of the 2.8 billion people living in the hottest parts of the world, only 8% currently have air conditioners (ACs), compared with 90% of people in the US and Japan.

While the household ownership of ACs in India today is a mere 7%, the demand for comfort cooling is expected to drive the total stock of room ACs to over 1 billion by 2050 – a 40-fold growth from 2016. To put this in perspective, of the roughly 290 million households in India, fewer than around 20 million have ACs. Growth in the demand for cooling will be dramatic, particularly in urban areas, due to the underlying need for a solution to the problem of heat stress.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/ ... ditioning/
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Sep 2020, 19:17:41

NOAA just announced last summer was the hottest ever

northern-hemisphere-summer-was-hottest-record-scientists-say

Its good to see global warming hitting a new record.

So often a year or a month turns out to be the second or third warmest ever, or one of the top 10 or something like that.

But now we've set a completely new record....2020 just had the warmest summer ever.

So its no wonder we've got forest forest fires exploding all across the west.....its so fricking hot the trees are all dying and the soil is drying out and forest fires are everywhere.

Trump just went to California and tried to downplay climate change even as the state is burning down around him.....what a fricking moron.

But all that senile old Joe Biden is promising is that when he gets elected the US will rejoin the worthless Paris Climate Accords. Big deal---that will accomplish nothing. And Biden won't even endorse a carbon tax.

Sheesh!

We really are doomed. Fully and Truly and Completely doomed. Might as well enjoy the experience and look for some humor at the end of the world.

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 14 Sep 2020, 20:44:34

Plantagenet wrote:NOAA just announced last summer was the hottest ever
Trump just went to California and tried to downplay climate change even as the state is burning down around him.....what a fricking moron.

But all that senile old Joe Biden is promising is that when he gets elected the US will rejoin the worthless Paris Climate Accords. Big deal---that will accomplish nothing. And Biden won't even endorse a carbon tax.

Sheesh! We really are doomed. Fully and Truly and Completely doomed. Might as well enjoy the experience and look for some humor at the end of the world.


Wasn't sure where to put this, but you created the spot, so might as well have at it:

Dark Ages America
http://morrisberman.blogspot.com/

They talk about what Gore Vidal said about America, that we are a nation of very stupid people for the most part, even when educated.

I'm hopeful that California figures out what to do about these forest fires, but there are no easy solutions and the California beloved by many is just slipping away.

I also find it incredibly stupid (of the left) when they bring up the inequities of climate change. IMO, when the environmental balance is destroyed, the poor suffer and the wealthy stay indoors. That's a sad state of affairs. That's like protecting animals by putting them in cages. The state of the environment affects everyone, the wealthy even more (even if they don't know it).
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Sep 2020, 23:00:13

jedrider wrote: the California beloved by many is just slipping away.....

I also find it incredibly stupid (of the left) when they bring up the inequities of climate change. IMO, when the environmental balance is destroyed, the poor suffer and the wealthy stay indoors. That's a sad state of affairs. That's like protecting animals by putting them in cages. The state of the environment affects everyone, the wealthy even more (even if they don't know it).


Great Post, Jedr.

But as you well know the stupidity and blindness towards climate change isn't only on the left. The right has been even more stupid in lining up behind Trump and pretending that climate change isn't real.

Sadly, most partisans in both the D and the R parties seem concerned only with winning elections, and are blind to the magnitude of the coming climate change disaster we are only beginning to witness.

Where is Greta Thunberg now that we need her?

Image
Greta! Come back! We need your clear and strong voice against climate change now more then ever!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 15 Sep 2020, 09:52:03

I seriously believe that society at large is beginning to capitulate to the reality of climate change and that the denial game is coming to an end.
For those of you who get the NY Times there is a really really good article today linked below that gets into some of the nuts and bolts of the insurance industry and government regulations around keeping housing and rebuilding destroyed homes in climate prone areas and how this has reached a breaking point in terms of continuing this. The inevitable result is a soon to see collapse of many residential areas and the start of migration out of these areas. Here is a link to the article for those interested

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e=Homepage

There are signs that the message is breaking through. Half of Americans now rank climate as a top political priority, up from roughly one-third in 2016, and three out of four now describe climate change as either “a crisis” or “a major problem.” This year, Democratic caucusgoers in Iowa, where tens of thousands of acres of farmland flooded in 2019, ranked climate second only to health care as an issue. A poll by researchers at Yale and George Mason Universities found that even Republicans’ views are shifting: One in three now think climate change should be declared a national emergency.


Once the floodgates open, no pun intended, these changes will accelerate.

For anyone owning real estate or considering relocating in the near future this article is a good macro summary of the issue.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 16 Sep 2020, 13:22:54

This is a good explanation of why the Northwest fires have become so explosive:

A little-noticed indicator was flashing red before any of the blazes began.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/09/most-important-number-for-the-wests-wildfires-california/616359/

Basically, the Water Vapor Deficit, which they call the 'Sponge Effect', but I prefer to colloquially call it the 'Charmin Effect'.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 17 Sep 2020, 14:49:41

Bbbbut...tRump says it's because of exploding trees! :)

Meanwhile, increasing numbers are saying GW is top priority for them

https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/v ... a/ycom-us/
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby REAL Green » Fri 18 Sep 2020, 04:02:23

“It's 122 Degrees In This City Today”
https://247wallst.com/healthcare-econom ... ity-today/

“Temperatures have set records around the world recently, and the warmest places are routinely over 110 degrees F during the day. Extreme heat, over 120 degrees, is rare, but in this city in Afghanistan, it is 122 F today. Herat is Afghanistan’s third-largest city with a population of over 400,00. It sits in the western part of the country near the border with Iran. July is usually the hottest month of the year, It is unusual for the temperature to be this high in September. The average high temperature in the city during September averages closer to 90 degrees F.”
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 28 Sep 2020, 08:59:49

Here is an example of honest science but then delusional solutions. Economically his plan for mirrors to create albedo is not realistic.

"Do we Still have a Chance? The Challenge of Emergency Measures for the Survival of Humankind"
https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/20 ... ge-of.html

"Instead, if you go to the basic physics of the issue, you'll discover that models are certainly wrong as predictive tools simply because they can't include the non-linear forces that push the system to change its state. But physics tells you that the problem is way worse than models can calculate. That's what Dr. Tao does. Once we do our due diligence, the results are -- well -- let's say a bit uncomfortable. There are many uncertainties, but the robust result is that we are heading for disaster. We can't even rule out the total extinction of the biosphere. It may well be too late for conventional solutions: double-pane windows and bicycling to work won't help us much. Even if we could switch to 100% renewable energy tomorrow morning, the warming trajectory may well continue along with the current trends. So, how early is too late? We don't know, but Dr. Tao has a nice touch when he looks at the audience and says: "all of you will experience some of these effects" (and some in the audience have white hair.) Solutions
If this is how things stand, then what do we do? Some people seem to find a certain satisfaction in joining the various groups that go under names such as "near term extinction" where they tell each other "we are all going to die soon." But others have a more aggressive reaction. If this is a dire emergency (and let me repeat that it is), shouldn't we think of extreme emergency measures? This is what Dr. Tao proposes.
The main point of the proposal is to counter the greenhouse effect of CO2 by increasing the earth's albedo (the fraction of light reflected in space). The idea is to use standard, aluminum-coated mirrors to be deployed on the Earth's surface, either on land on the surface of water bodies. Of course, the surface needed would be enormous, of the order of 3%-4% of the total if we want to offset the heat forcing generated by the current concentration of CO2. It is a lot, but not inconceivable."
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dissident » Mon 28 Sep 2020, 10:41:29

Actually climate models do a very good job of including feedbacks and nonlinearity. Too many smug, ignorant comments about climate models are spread around. Every prat thinks they are a climate science PhD with a long peer reviewed publication list just by listening to some hack like Rush Limbaugh (I know he is a has been). The value of models is that they do including the leading order processes. That they do not include every last Nth order effect does not make them useless. If we lived in such a reality, then human intelligence would be totally useless since it operates on the same principles: approximations and leading order process analysis. Only God would be able to think at all since He would be able to fathom every infinite, attenuating detail.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 28 Sep 2020, 19:45:27

China recently announced that they would level out their CO2 production in a couple of decades or so and the mainstream media went into love mode, ballyhooing how wonderful the Chinese were to be planning to cap their carbon emissions.

But the MSM never covered even more important news.......just before they announced the CO2 cap, the Chinese announced they were building a whole new batch of coal-fired power plants. These new coal fired powers will boost China's CO2 production----already the largest in the world by far-----to ever greater heights.

And, of course, never forget that the Chinese are members in good standing of the Paris Accords, and this huge boost in their CO2 production is allowed under the idiotic Paris Accords, which do nothing to reduce CO2 emissions, and it is allowed under the bilateral Us-china climate deal that Obama put together.

So when the forest fires burn ever more forest and the seas rise and flood more coastal areas and the heat waves kill and the hurricanes and tornadoes become more and ore numerous, just remember this is all totally OK under the Paris Climate Accords, because obama and Biden and all the world's leaders support this bad deal and thereby they all signed on to OK China's huge increases in CO2 production.

china-calls-for-green-revolution-right-after-approving-new-fleet-coal-plants

SHEESH!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 28 Sep 2020, 23:18:52

Plant, see my signature.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 29 Sep 2020, 07:08:02

asg70 wrote:Plant, see my signature.

I don't understand that. Shouldn't you compare total CO2 output instead of only zeroing in on flying?
How much CO2 output are YOU responsible for, directly and indirectly?

How much CO2 output do you facilitate with your job, making business, production and consumption ever more efficient?

I have a feeling if you live a western lifestyle you shouldn't point fingers at others.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 29 Sep 2020, 11:49:04

mousepad wrote:
asg70 wrote:Plant, see my signature.

I don't understand that. Shouldn't you compare total CO2 output instead of only zeroing in on flying?
How much CO2 output are YOU responsible for, directly and indirectly?

How much CO2 output do you facilitate with your job, making business, production and consumption ever more efficient?

I have a feeling if you live a western lifestyle you shouldn't point fingers at others.


-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.

Got to be one of the most frivolous uses of our fossil fuel binge. I see no reason not to focus on the most egregious first.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 29 Sep 2020, 12:35:00

jedrider wrote:the most frivolous uses of our fossil fuel binge.


why? because you say so?

Jetfuel accounts only for 13% of oil use. 70% of oil is used in ground transportation.
For me, all those peons driving to all those places they think they have to be every day is probably the most frivolous use of fossil fuel.
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